Latios - SV650SF
 

Finally I have a fuel injected motorcycle! I got myself a 2008 Suzuki SV650SF. Liquid cooled, fuel injected V-twin, full fairings, twin spark heads, blah blah blah.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...9&d=1546382819


The modding begins!


The bike came with what appears to be a Yoshimura full system, but I wanted a catalytic converter, so I ghetto rigged a stock pipe on there. The newer suzuki 650's come with a cat in the midpipe, but my generation has it in the muffler. It looks like crap and leaks exhaust, but it works.I did take it for a ride and confirmed the cat lights off. A gasket and band style clamps should fix the problems until I can get it welded, if I decide to go that route.


https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1546382813


I changed the oil and found the same filter situation as I had with my VFR 400, not compatible with a sandwich oil cooler/heater unless you get a special nut that likely no one makes. Threads are part of the block, so I would need a block from a model that came with the cooler/heater to install one.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...0&d=1546382827

Some proposed mods:


Engine:
Shorten stock exhaust leaving CAT in place
DL 650 cam swap(put SV exhaust on intake, put DL exhaust on exhaust)?
^Buy all DL cams to match timing easily^
DL 650 intake trumpets
Hotter thermostat from 2003-2006 model
Block radiator partially
Block oil cooler completely


Drivetrain:
17/42 gearing
Michelin Road 5 tires
Brake drag reduction springs
Higher tire pressures

Aero:
Aero front fender(might need front fork swap for options)
Space fairings out at end to ensure complete leg coverage
Rear tire hugger(pyramid?)

Comfort:
Lowered pegs
Tank rubber(also for tank protection)
Better seat

Other: TeeRiver Fuelbot


Hoping to hit 100 MPG!

Looking good man! Just curious, but why add the OEM cat back on? Wouldn’t the exhaust restrictions make the engine less efficient?

If it has a full Yosh system on it, you are going to want to put a full factory system back on it. Typically aftermarket performance exhaust systems are going to have large diameter header pipes. You aren't going to want that for maximum efficiency.

Could also bump the heat range of the plugs up one if you plan to keep the revs way down.

I'd go with a lighter full synthetic 5W-30 cycle oil like Motul 300V (pretty sure you can get it in a cycle oil).

A taller windscreen may help also.

Rear fender and grab bar should go...

I want the cat to reduce emissions. A huge reduction in emissions at the cost of ever so slightly reduced performance and increased weight is a trade off I am willing to make. Going to a free flowing pipe on my CBR dropped gas mileage. Of course I jetted it richer, but it did lose some low end power.

Good point about the header diameter, I will have to check that. Luckily I have a bike to compare it to. The headers do have little h-pipes in them, which might be helpful. I think the bends are more gradual too, gotta check it out after work. If the stock headers seem better for low end power, I could always trade the yoshi for my brother’s stock pipes. That is where the muffler came from anyways! I don’t think he would say no.

Tires showed up. Finally...

Will be mounting them up tomorrow at work.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1546487752

17/42 Sprockets and a DID(?) chain on their way. Thermostat and DL650 parts come later.

I went and measured the pipes, and believe it or not, the yoshi system appears ever so slightly smaller. Something like 40.9mm outer diameter vs 41.1mm.


Some exhaust pictures:


Back of stock pipes
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...2&d=1546487762

Side of stock pipes
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1546487767

Back of Yoshi
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1546487772

Side of Yoshi
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...5&d=1546487779

I plan on bumping the operating temperature up with the new thermostat, as well as completely blocking off the oil cooler, I think the engine will be hot enough that the stock heat range is still a good choice.

A little late to put different oil in it now! Next time I change the oil i'll probably put a 5w-30 or 10w-30 motorcycle oil in it, like Honda HP4. On the subject of oil, I brought out my 1"x5" oil heater pad and it looks like I may be able to stick it on.

I am not afraid to go into a full tuck, so a taller windscreen would likely not be helpful. The grab bar has already come in handy to pick up the rear of the bike and shift it around, and the rear fender stays.

Looking good!

Non o-ring chain?

The tubing wall thickness may be different between the factory and Yosh systems, but it sounds like they are close.

Rear fender removal would be mostly for aero reasons. I never used the grab bar. Even with the blocked cooling a hotter plug may still help with combustion efficiency at low RPMs.

Flush mount front signals and smaller more areo mirrors would be an improvement.

You will need to pull out all the stops to get to 100 MPG with the SV, but it should be interesting.

Nice bike mate!
Safe rides
That is a very interesting project, keep us updated please

First tank was some putting around the neighborhood, spirited twisties, and 70+ mph highway plus a good amount of tucking. 70.4 MPG. It is important to mention that this was a slight overfill. I had the radiator blocked a little more than halfway, but the 60-65 degree ambient temperature was enough to keep coolant temps around high 190s. I went down to 1/4 block to keep temps around 170. Oil cooler was probably 80% blocked.

Michelin road 5s are on and scrubbed in. They had been ridden for 40 miles or so before the twisties, so I can't comment on warmup time, however, once they were there, they performed excellently. I never slipped on them, and they gave enough confident traction to allow me to scrape the exhaust clamp bolts! I thought I had finally scraped pegs, guess not!


https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1546813925

The matching set of road 5s is definitely a better fit than the road 5 front and Shinko raven rear on my brother's SV. The other setup needs more bar effort to crank it over, the road 5 set feels more natural. That Shinko, despite being a rather flat profile still gave good grip when leaned over. Wet roads were the only situation where I doubted that tire.

Nope, its got o-rings. This bike is intended to be my reliable long distance bike, so a non o-ring chain that wears out quickly is not really exciting. If I get an auto oiler rigged up, I would consider it, but not until then. Current chain is freshly cleaned and lubed, so if I run another tank through it before changing the gearing it may help give better mileage.

Yes, I figured it may help aero. I still like the idea of a functional rear fender complete with reflectors. Flush mount signals can make it difficult to tell which way you are turning. When I replace the 4 plugs, i'll consider getting hotter ones.

It might be as much work as getting my accord to 50 MPG was, which took 2 years. :eek: We will see!


I still have two other motorcycles that need to be ridden, and as they are carbureted, they should be ridden often to keep problems at bay. It may take a while before I can run another tank through this thing.

17T front sprocket installed with new chain. The 42T rear sprocket is still on the way, might take a while.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1546982331

I didn't get the rubber cushioned sprocket, so it is a little louder.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...5&d=1546982335

There really is a ton of room for front sprockets on this bike. Even the 17T has plenty of room. An 18T would probably fit.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...6&d=1546982338

This is the closest hard part to the chain, at the closest it will ever get, as long as it isn't loose. As I discovered when reassembling it, the closest thing to the chain is not a hard part, but the cable for the sidestand switch. I ziptied it to another cable to help keep it further away, but I don't know how well it is working.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1546982342


As far as riding impressions, I like it! The tach shows roughly a 500 RPM drop at 45 MPH. I can use 4th gear at neighborhood speeds, but I have to be careful to not drop below 25 MPH or it gets too rattly. Haven't gone on the highway yet, but it should be much the same, a more pleasant and less buzzy experience. Dropping below 2200 indicated in higher gears results in rattling, the rattling is a little more prominent now that the gearing is taller, so the load is higher for the same RPM. Pulling away from a stop is just fine with the taller gearing. Low speed traffic will suck i'm sure though.

My brother's SV can get away with lower RPM before being rattly, so i'll have to check out the chain tension on that bike and compare it to mine. Maybe mine needs a throttle body sync or something. Hopefully the DL650 cams and velocity stacks will improve low RPM rideability.

Gearingcommander.com says the 17/45 will be at 4512 RPM at 70 MPH, which is already lower than my dad's VFR 800 which does 4820 at 70. The 17/45 setup is 11.76% taller, and the 17/42 will be 17.64% taller.

I was reading up on oil at 540 Rat's oil blog (https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/) and realized the 10W40 Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil I was using is rated at a very mediocre 65,553 PSI of shear resistance. So I drained it out(saved in milk jug for the lawnmower..) and put some 5W30 Mobil one advanced full synthetic oil in. This oil is rated for 117,799 PSI of shear resistance. MUCH BETTER! It also has the "evil" resource conserving tag on the bottom of the API label.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1548367431

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1548367439

Guess what? No clutch slippage! Full throttle and high RPM, or full throttle in top gear, still no clutch slippage.

My 42T sprocket showed up, but I need another master link to install it, still waiting on that.

You don't want that oil! That's standard automotive oil.

Clutch slippage isn't the issue, it's the lack of adequate ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus) that's the problem. Those levels (600ppm) are fine for a current auto engine with roller rockers, but not for a solid, non-roller, valvetrain like cycles use. You want around 1200ppm for a cycle engine. ZDDP is sacrificial and protects the cam and rocker faces (high pressure areas) from galling at times when flow is minimal - you want it.

Use a diesel oil like Rotella T5 or T6 - but NOT the new "Multi Vehicle" 5W-30 Rotella T6 - it has low ZDDP levels like regular auto oils.

If it works, then i'm paving the way towards proving that car oils work just fine in a bike. If it blows up(catastrophically), then i'm out $1000, which I can afford. Read the blog jkv, the guy covers the misconceptions around ZDDP and how it doesn't determine wear protection on its own. He gets pretty ranty, but its a good read and offers oil data that I have never seen anywhere else. :thumbup:

He also covers some testimonials as far as high ZDDP oils and occurences of engine failures, vs using high performing oils.

That's fine.

I didn't think there was any debate about the benefits of adequate ZDDP for a non-roller engine, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Why would you risk it? Just use Rotella T5 10W-30 or a 30-grade cycle oil like Motul.

My new rivet master link(s) showed up, so I could finally install the 42T rear sprocket that showed up a while ago. The sprocket setup is now 17/42. I took it for a test ride on the highway, and this thing is a friggin DREAM to ride at higher speeds! At an indicated 75 MPH it is running an indicated 4500 RPM. Again, indicated stuff here: A stock geared bike will show 4000 RPM at 53 MPH, my bike now shows 3000 RPM at 50 MPH.

Roll on performance in top gear is pretty abysmal below 50 MPH, but is just fine at 70. An acceptable smooth "idle" speed in 1st gear shows 9 MPH. :eek:
It doesn't like 6th gear below 38 MPH.

ACTUAL RPMs vs speed for this new gearing are as follows:

45 MPH: 2707
70 MPH: 4211

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1548459112

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1548459117

Motorcycle oil is very expensive, and generally has mediocre performance compared to car oils as far as shear resistance. We can assume we need to buy their expensive specific oil, or we can think outside the box a little. Maybe put some pressure on the oil companies to make better oil cheaper. I'm going to run this thing for a few thousand miles before swapping to the DL650 cams, so if any damage is going to occur, that is where it will show up.

Just run a diesel oil if motorcycle-specific oil is too expensive.

T6 does shear down, but you want a lower viscosity oil anyway. Shear doesn't cause engine damage. Low ZDDP levels cause damage. I don't run T6 in my SV because the shifting isn't as smooth after the oil shears. The cost of 3 quarts of oil is not a major concern for me.

As far as the clutch not slipping, maybe it will and maybe it won't, but it takes time for the Moly to build-up on the clutch plates and cause slipping.

Want 15 - 20% better highway mileage? Cruise closer to 65 than 75.

My Ecomodder stickers showed up! One set went without incident, the other had some of the adhesive paper tear and threaten to leave behind the paper, but I approached from another angle and it came off cleanly.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...9&d=1549436090

Looking good!


I just have to remember not to scrape this one off when de-icing.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1549436081

I was referring to shear as the ability of the oil to keep metal parts separated, not the decline in viscosity. Also, when I referenced 75 MPH above, that would be indicated, which is 10% optimistic. The tachometer is also optimistic, even more optimistic than if the speedo were dead on.(on a stock geared bike that is..)
Cruising speeds are not up to me, as I usually don't lead except for in the twisties, but we also aren't going 75 mph. Its usually around 65-70.

I believe that is referred to as film strength, and the thicker the oil the more there is. Pretty sure synthetic oils are superior to conventional in that respect.

How optimistic is the tach?

I don't have fairings, but I've noticed a significant decline in mileage once I get in the 70 mph range. At 80 mph (actual) it's in the low to mid 40s. I typically don't cruise that fast, but did consistently on my recent Interstate trip. We had a long ways to go...

Not really fun at those speeds without significant wind protection. I would expect the fairing will help your mileage as speeds increase.

Interested to see how high of numbers you can get.

Looks good! First photo of an EM decal on a motorcycle!

Thanks for the application details - you're the first to report back after applying from this new batch.

I think the supplier went with a hair too much cutting pressure which scored the backing paper under the vinyl. Requires more care than usual.

Where is the sv’s speed sensor?

On the dL it is on the front sprocket.
Also stock gearing on my 13 dl650 puts an indicated 70mph at exactly 5k rpm.

Front wheel! :D

Oh, and jkv, the tach is something like 1100 RPM optimistic(at rev limiter), which is already fairly optimistic, but when you also include that the bike only revs to around 10,400 RPM, that inaccuracy is kind of ridiculous. My CBR 250R is 1300 RPM optimistic, but it revs nearly twice as high!

Never noticed the tach being off but my speedo is about 7% high and but the odo is less than 2% off.

Rear tire hugger Installed. This is the powerbronze model.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...8&d=1550805073

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...&d=1550805092]

Nice.


Is that marketed as an aero enhancement or just as a fender?

It appears to only be marketed for appearance, but it should help aero. I think I read it in CBR 600 literature that rear fenders supposedly enhance cooling air evacuation, as the air can go out the back of the bike without fighting air going forward from the rear tire.

Some aero focused bikes like the hayabusa and BMW K1 do not appear to have rear fenders, but moto2 bikes manage to streamline the rear swingarm with their rear fenders.

Just ran a second tank through, mostly with the 17/42 gearing. The first 70 miles were short trips plus some inefficient hooning, but the rest of the 222.8 mile tank was riding fairly efficiently. The fuel light temporarily came on, but went out shortly after. I filled 2.973 gallons, resulting in 74.9 mpg. A whole tank of riding efficiently should easily pass 85 mpg. With its 4.5 gallon tank, this thing is capable of some serious touring range.

Your best tank record seems set to be updated.

Man, it still feels a long way from motorcycling weather around here!

Two more tanks later and I got a new best tank. 79.5 MPG. Was hoping for at least 85, but it was a lot of 60 mph riding.

No new record tank as far as efficiency goes, but I got a new long distance record. 285.5 miles, 3.743 gallons, 76.28 MPG. The two stage fuel light came on at 232.0 miles, and hadn’t switched to the next stage over 50 miles later. With the 4.5 gallon fuel tank, this thing has some range to it!

Okay, I got past 80, finally! I benefited from the corridor effect(group ride) just about the entire tank, versus half of the previous(long) tank, plus more tucking.

187.5 miles, 2.234 gallons, 83.9 MPG!

Hitting 100 is going to require some seriously MPG friendly riding, or those DL650 cams.

I did actually find adapters which may work for my application!

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...5&d=1571151015

Site offering these adapters alone: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s...xtension-bolts

They come with these oil filter adapter plates which are designed for tapping into oil flow for turbo use, pressure gauges, oil coolers, etc. I wouldn't need the plate in this case unless I want to rig up a pre lube pump(i do eventually), just the little screw thing for now. Now the problem is finding one that will fit the thread pitch of the SV: M20x1.0.

Most seem to be M20x1.5 or an imperial size. Either way, at least one of my vehicles in the stable is getting a sandwich oil filter cooler/heater.


My accord uses M20x1.5
The CBR 250R has an internal canister oil filter, so no luck there

Currently trying to figure out the VFR 400, it sounds like the oil filter thread can SCREW OUT by grabbing with vicegrips, I thought it was cast/machined into mine though. I could easily check by holding a magnet up to the threads, if it is steel while the rest is aluminum, that would pretty much confirm that it is threaded in. That being said, this is a rare vintage bike, so I want to play it safe. The CB/CBR 900 oil cooler that I got did come with its own screw, so we will see... IF I do go through with this, i'll probably try to find some nuts that are the same pitch so I can double nut the threaded rod out without damage.

Next time i'm at the junkyard I will see if I can get one out.

I'm not so obsessed about the emissions, but I also take exhaust mods with a grain of salt. But anyway, anything that trades off some low-end torque is not suitable for your 100 MPG goals...

Lots of new mods just installed! The rear tire hugger is off, and has been off for a while, I need to fabricate some brackets to move it further from the tire, it digs in a little. On to the mods.

V-Strom 650 camshafts are designed for improved low rpm power/rideability as opposed to the more top end oriented SV650 camshafts. V-Strom owners sometimes swap to the SV camshafts for more power, I went the other way. There are instructions on the DL to SV swap, which involves swapping only one pair of cams, shifting the other, and re-marking them. That is great and all, but that doesn't help me for going the other way..

I got a pair of heads with camshafts from a V-Strom and went ahead and installed them. This was a two day project with all the work and screw ups that happened. First time I went to start it, it would only pop a little bit and started pouring oil out the back of the engine. Turns out I didn't seat the valve cover gasket on the rear of the cover, it is really difficult to see back there and I didn't remove the gasket from the head as I would need to reseal it.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1577758634
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...6&d=1577758628


You can see a slight difference in the lobe profiles, but nothing significant. V-Strom set on left, SV on right. I think these were the rear cylinder cams. I measured the lobe heights and non lobe diameter as well, but no lobe separation angles or anything like that. The DL intake cams had 0.5mm less lift, while the DL exhaust cams had a whole 1.5mm less lift. The V-Strom cams also had a shallower ramp up, while the SV cams are pointier.

So I fixed the gasket situation and went ahead and rechecked the timing. In my excitement to get this done, I didn't realize I misread the directions that I had, and I should have been using V-Strom instructions to begin with anyways! The instructions for timing the rear cylinder said to spin the engine over one revolution and get back to the front cylinder timing mark. I missed that part, but I got it right anyways. The rear timing was correct to V-Strom specifications, but not the front cylinder. The front cylinder intake camshaft was 90 degrees off. :eek:

Luckily I only had to fix the front cylinder. Getting to those camshaft tensioners is no fun. I also didn't have to adjust valve clearances despite the new cams. :thumbup:

While the coolant was drained, I installed a hotter thermostat from the 2003-2006 SV650. It is a 88C (190F) thermostat instead of the 76.5C (170F) thermostat previously installed. As I was finishing this up, my backordered V-Strom velocity stack showed up. I had ordered the velocity stacks previously, with the new thermostat.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...5&d=1577758622

So the new velocity stacks went in as well! Definitely not easy, and you have to check by looking at the bottom to make sure they are seated correctly. They did not bulge out on the inside where they meet the airbox. These things are definitely an improvement over the puny ones the SV comes with standard.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1577758609
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1577758615




When the bike was ready to test ride, all mods had been installed. Apparently I had forgotten another oil leak on the rear head, which I would find later. The bike seemed to idle smoother and quieter, but now had more mechanical noise and a new fizzing noise (oil leak!). Riding away it pulls smooth and strong. It also doesn't buck in higher gears until 1900-2000 RPM instead of the previous 2200 RPM. Accelerating hard below 3000 RPM is now MUCH smoother as it would previously vibrate. Before having to turn back due to the oil leak, I full throttled up to 7000 RPM with no signs of power loss yet. Just smooth torque! I did not pay close attention to coolant temperature on the ride, but the one temp I do remember seeing was 180F. It would usually be around 165F in similar conditions with the standard thermostat. Needs more radiator blocking!

That oil leak I mentioned? It was just a stupid missing gasket for one of the cylinder head cover bolts. It still managed to spray oil all over the areas above and behind the rear cylinder, some of which got on the edges of my rear tire. Replacing the missing gasket eliminated the fizzing noise, and the mechanical noise seems back to normal levels. I tried to spray and wipe all the oily areas, but I suspect it will continue to drip for the next few days.

No word on MPG, but hopefully it will be better! I may have to get a power commander to reduce the fuel, as there is no fuel mixture adjustment built into these things except for maybe altitude. Still have to do a plug chop and check.


I did go through with this, pulled one out of a V6 accord but it is a completely different thread diameter on the other end. It would make more sense to get one of the adapters I mentioned above.

I have run a partial tank through with the new cams in. It came out to be 75 MPG, which is disappointing. HOWEVER: I filled it in a different orientation, tank facing down on previous fill vs tank up on this fill, so this fill will be pessimistic. The small fillup only amplifies this inaccuracy.

Also, I only discovered after the trip was over that my radiator blocking tape was peeled away. While riding, the temperature would climb to 187-190F, then quickly drop to 174. This was the thermostat repeatedly opening and closing as the cooling system was too effective vs what was being demanded of it. I went ahead and blocked off half of the radiator, so hopefully that should eliminate the temperature fluctuations.

As far as the ride report goes, nothing bad to report! I took it up to 10,500 RPM this ride without noticeable power loss. Still another 1,000 to go, but even with the stock cams the bike noticeably loses power up there. I'm going to have to ride mine and my brother's back to back to notice a difference up there.



After the ride, I checked a spark plug, and it looked slightly rich. This is not a surprise, as this is an open loop fuel system. It does not adjust the fueling based on O2 sensor inputs, which when I found out, I was disappointed of course. :rolleyes:

To compensate for this, and maybe get a little more intake noise, I went ahead and got a SV 1000 intake snorkel. This snorkel appears to have twice the intake area of the 650 snorkel. Unfortunately I haven't ridden it with the new snorkel yet, but it should improve the fueling.

EDIT: Tried the snorkel out, feels the same, intake noise at full throttle is monstrous. :) I checked a plug after the ride and it looked just as rich. It was a short ride, so it was warming up for a good bit of the trip. I’ll check it again after a longer trip.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1579075718

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1579075724

Two fills with the new mods installed, 75 and 73 MPG.

I think it is safe to say that the new cams are not helping without a tune. As I have said before, this bike unfortunately has an open loop fuel system. This means that the FI runs off a programmed map rather than reading an O2 sensor and adjusting the mixture on the fly. What I have done here is allowed less air into the engine, but shifted the power down lower. This means that the bike is running richer, but I can hold gears slightly longer. Potentially needing more throttle to accelerate. So really I am using more gas right now.

It would be interesting if I could get my hands on a V strom ECU, I wonder if the rest of the bike will play nice. Otherwise I am looking at getting a Teka SFI tune to lean out the fuel maps. As opposed to a powercommander, the Teka reprograms the existing ECU. This should eliminate any potential reliability issues like what I have heard with powercommanders. I may even be able to get the idle speed turned down with the tune, it sits at 1,300 RPM right now, I think it could be dropped to 1,150 without issue.

Other than the cams, I have no reason to believe that the other mods are not helping. I should check the spark plugs again, plus compare them to my brother's stock SV.

These cams fall into the category of competition/range extension/environmental savings as opposed to cost savings. I suspect the tune will override any cost savings from improved fuel economy, but who knows. We will see!