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-   -   LG and GM are building a battery plant in Ohio (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/lg-gm-building-battery-plant-ohio-38026.html)

Xist 12-05-2019 02:39 PM

LG and GM are building a battery plant in Ohio
 
GM & LG Chem to create $2.3 billion battery cell venture for electric vehicles, to create 1,100 jobs in Ohio

"Construction of the plant is expected to begin in mid-2020." It will be near the plant that GM recently sold to an unspecified EV startup (Lordstown Motors). It is supposed to be among the largest in the world, yet they plan on producing 50% more battery capacity than Tesla and Panasonic's plant in Nevada, the current world leader.

Quote:

The jobs at the joint venture plant are expected to pay lower than top wages at the automaker’s assembly plants, however, Barra said they will be “very good paying jobs.”
Have a great day!

Stubby79 12-05-2019 02:58 PM

The guys who killed their own EV child back in the day? Really? Dumbasses.

Xist 12-05-2019 03:25 PM

LG is a good company. Why did they pick losers for partners? I guess this was somehow a better opportunity than other automakers.

redpoint5 12-05-2019 03:34 PM

How do you know they picked losers, especially if they didn't specify who the partner might be?

I like seeing manufacturing in the US.

GM's first EV never stood a chance from day 1. The problem wasn't that people didn't want to keep their leases, it was that the car was phenomenally unprofitable. You have 2 options when something is unprofitable:

1. Kill the unprofitable thing so you don't die
2. Die

Xist 12-05-2019 03:49 PM

LG picked GM.

cowmeat 12-05-2019 04:09 PM

Quote:

The guys who killed their own EV child back in the day? Really? Dumbasses.
Yeah, it's ridiculous that they killed the Volt!

Ohhhhhh, you were talking about the EV1 . . . . they're just straight up EV killers over at GM!

Xist 12-05-2019 05:02 PM

In no particular order, GM has bought and killed: Oldsmobile, Cartercar, Elmore, Ewing, Pontiac, Geo, Saab, and what else?

GM tried to buy Ford in 1910, the CEO was forced out, and he co-founded Chevrolet.

redpoint5 12-05-2019 05:55 PM

GM has introduced 2 generations of Volt, a Spark EV, and currently offers the most excellent Bolt EV.

You can only kill what you have; which GM has a lot more than other manufacturers. Can't ever blame someone for trying.

oil pan 4 12-05-2019 10:22 PM

And with the EV1 killed that stupid paddle charger.
J1772 is so much better.
Just think we could have been stuck with something as complicated and expensive as a chademo that only puts out 6.6kw, with 10% more losses.

hayden55 02-10-2020 01:18 PM

I mean they used lead acid batteries with Low cycle lives and terrible range. It was meant to be killed. Did y'all not see how bad the Ford Ranger electric sucked? lol
This is a HUGEly good thing. The reason why Hyundai is so competitive with the ecar market is because of their proximity to the battery manufacturers in their home company. Should be good to see the improvements of this.
I'm assuming the EV1 would've been similar to the Gen 1 Leaf with much worse results.

hayden55 02-10-2020 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 612850)
LG is a good company. Why did they pick losers for partners? I guess this was somehow a better opportunity than other automakers.

Honestly, I'd say the Bolt is not a loser. It already has 200+ mile range with LG chem batteries. I really wouldn't say the 50mi+ range Volt was either. But... once again hugely unprofitable. They lost a lot of money on these cars. The Bolt is a nice deal on the used market for under 20k now. Thats not a bad price. Still doesn't compete with the cost to own of the hybrid market but its getting there. I still say EV's won't be common place until about 2050 so we are in the Early stages.

redpoint5 02-10-2020 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayden55 (Post 616960)
The reason why Hyundai is so competitive with the ecar market is because of their proximity to the battery manufacturers in their home company.

Not only that, but South Korea is essentially an island the size of Kentucky, which is one of our smaller states. EVs are a clear choice there. I expect 50% of vehicles there to be EV in this decade. Same with Japan and other countries that are island-like or have aggressive policy to promote them.

hayden55 02-10-2020 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 616963)
Not only that, but South Korea is essentially an island the size of Kentucky, which is one of our smaller states. EVs are a clear choice there. I expect 50% of vehicles there to be EV in this decade. Same with Japan and other countries that are island-like or have aggressive policy to promote them.

True. They use vehicles much much differently there. Their infrastructure is so easy compared to ours. Plus their work ethic is like 9x ours per my engineering teacher who tells us horror stories of working at Hyundai. lol

Xist 02-10-2020 03:12 PM

The latest explanation that I have read for cheap and low-mileage Japanese engines is they only drive 5,000 - 8,000 miles annually and there are heavy societal pressures to have new cars in perfect shape.

The Leaf sounds perfect for that situation.

oil pan 4 02-10-2020 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 616975)
The latest explanation that I have read for cheap and low-mileage Japanese engines is they only drive 5,000 - 8,000 miles annually and there are heavy societal pressures to have new cars in perfect shape.

The Leaf sounds perfect for that situation.

This is absolutely correct.

redpoint5 02-10-2020 05:17 PM

Everybody knows lithium ion batteries need environmental conditioning for longevity, including Nissan. It seems Nissan counted on battery prices or technology improving so quickly that protecting the investment was not necessary. You've got cars needing new batteries after only 7 years even in temperate climates.

I might take the Leaf off of my list to consider after my experience checking out battery health on 2 of the vehicles.

hayden55 02-10-2020 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 616979)
Everybody knows lithium ion batteries need environmental conditioning for longevity, including Nissan. It seems Nissan counted on battery prices or technology improving so quickly that protecting the investment was not necessary. You've got cars needing new batteries after only 7 years even in temperate climates.

I might take the Leaf off of my list to consider after my experience checking out battery health on 2 of the vehicles.

Not a big deal if you're a diy'er who dabbles in electrics to pick up one now used. But... If you would've bought one new vs a corolla you would've lost your ass on ownership cost. :(

redpoint5 02-11-2020 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayden55 (Post 616987)
Not a big deal if you're a diy'er who dabbles in electrics to pick up one now used. But... If you would've bought one new vs a corolla you would've lost your ass on ownership cost. :(

Maybe. I don't know what the incentives were like just before the Gen II. The Chevy bolt is discounted about $10k below MSRP as a reference, and nothing is coming to replace the current model.

On top of all that, there's a minimum $10k from state and federal subsidies. If I could get a Leaf $10k below MSRP and $10k back from subsidy, I might be looking at a new $15k Leaf.

I'm about 50/50 new vs used for myself at the moment. Seems unlikely one would lose money if they sold 2 years after purchase.

NeilBlanchard 02-11-2020 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayden55 (Post 616961)
Honestly, I'd say the Bolt is not a loser. It already has 200+ mile range with LG chem batteries.

The newest Bolt EV has 259 mile range, from its 66kWh pack. Our 2017 with a 60kWh pack, is rated at 238 miles. We regularly see over 300 miles in the summer - the best was 340 miles.

hayden55 02-11-2020 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 616996)
Maybe. I don't know what the incentives were like just before the Gen II. The Chevy bolt is discounted about $10k below MSRP as a reference, and nothing is coming to replace the current model.

On top of all that, there's a minimum $10k from state and federal subsidies. If I could get a Leaf $10k below MSRP and $10k back from subsidy, I might be looking at a new $15k Leaf.

I'm about 50/50 new vs used for myself at the moment. Seems unlikely one would lose money if they sold 2 years after purchase.

True that. Thats 9k less than a Prius in your state. Here thats 6.5k less than a prius. Not a bad deal if you have to have new. The new long range Leaf is a good car. The old one, meh...

Xist 03-13-2020 01:07 AM

GM's new soft-pack battery is supposed to be cheaper than Tesla, with a longer range.
 
2.5% more range, it does not say how much cheaper, just that traditionally polymer shells were more expensive, but up to 40% lighter. Wikipedia says a Tesla battery pack is 1,200 pounds.

480 pounds is a lot of weight savings, only 12% of the weight of a Model 3, but 12% weight savings in a vehicle is awesome. https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...hicle-battery/

oil pan 4 03-13-2020 11:04 AM

You can get 2.5% more range with any of a dozen cheap tricks.

ME_Andy 03-13-2020 11:39 AM

I don't think this sentence makes sense:

Quote:

The soft pack exterior is less conductive, meaning the battery holds less self-damaging heat.

oil pan 4 03-13-2020 11:44 AM

This is what you get when people with English degrees talk to engineers and try to write a paragraph about it.

Xist 03-13-2020 11:41 PM

Yes, that sentence has definite problems.


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