Looking to purchase a new vehicle (requirements: 30 cubic feet cargo, 30 mpg minimum)
 

So the wife and I are planning for another kid and apparently the Mini Clubman isn't big enough for our expanding family. She wants to be able to put the dog and a stroller in the back; so I set the guidline as 30 cubic feet in a bluff body vehicle. And I successfully mandated that we need to buy a vehicle that gets at least 30 MPG.

So I have basically narrowed it down to three options so far; 2013 Ford Escape with the 1.6L ecoboost, a 2013 Mazda CX-5, or a new/used VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI. I have heard rumors that Mazda might be releasing a 2.2L diesel for 2013, but haven't seen more than smoke and mirrors for a US diesel. My wife hates wagons, so the VW is the Ron Paul of this race.

Anybody have some good input about which would be better? Have a missed a vehicle in my search?

How much interior volume in the Prius V?

According to Toyota, the Prius v has 34.3 cubic feet of cargo volume seats up, and 67.3 seats folded. That's comparable to the 2013 Escape's 34.3/68.1, the 2012 CR-V's 37.2/70.9 and the 2013 CX-5's 34.1 / 65.4.

And the 42 MPG combined of the Prius v is nice.

Another thing, I think, is that the Prius v or any wagon is more practical because the cargo volume is similar but the cargo floor area is larger (you don't have to pile stuff up to use up the volume).

i don't like volkswagons. expensive to fix, and not really any better built then the rest IMO.

AJ - thanks for digging that up.

Given the requirements of MPGranger, I think that's where I would put my money if I were in his shoes.

I like Volkswagon TDIs, and I like wagons... so a used VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI would be my choice! :)

Thanks for all the replies.

AJ- I love wagons, my wife's Mini Clubman is the third I've owned in a decade worth of driving, but the car is for my wife so she can shoot anything down and she HATES wagons.
But she's okay with Hatchbacks/Crossovers/SUV?? I don't understand it either, but I did use your cargo space argument on her.

As for the Prius V, it would be on the top half of what we wish to spend on a new vehicle. I didn't post the $20k to $30k price range and so far nobody has violated it by suggesting an impractical luxury hybrid. But my wife considers it a wagon plus the higher price makes it an uphill battle for it.

Of course, I might just make her test drive one and try to put the stroller in it and imagine our dog (fully grown) next to it. That might be better persuader than my words.

Also, I know that the US Government has a $7.5k rebate for electric vehicles, does anybody know what, if any, the rebate for a hybrid would be? I know that Hummers got a rebate as Farm Equipment! (like any self respecting actual farmer would drive that crap!)

Best in-class cargo&mpg from cr

Best in cargo capacity & fuel economy: Fuel economy, cargo, haul

It's so disgusting too see that there's no other option than buying a gas pig if you want some kind of cargo room in north america.

I'd definitely have her at least try out the Prius V. It dominates everything else in the MPG department, even the VW by a fair amount.

Power Search is a pretty good tool for searching based of vehicle type, no input for cargo space but you can search by body style.

Ryland- the power search is awesome, except that the 2013 Ford Escape isn't on it! I went to all four dealer sites and used their comparison tools but nobody had the CX-5 or the new Escape on their database, not even Ford and Mazda sites! You can look up the specs on their respective sites, just not compare them directly.

I don't know what kind of annual mileage your wife is going to be doing with the car...
But it's worth considering fuel costs very carefully: 12,000 miles/year, 5 years, 13 MPG difference between a CX-5 and a Prius v: you'll save 640 gallons, say at 3.50$ that's 2200$.
That works to reduce (unfortunately not eliminate) the price premium for the hybrid...

True Cost to Own (TCO) Calculator on Edmunds.com

A handy tool with which to make comparisons.

TCO is pretty awesome! Prius v 2 is $37 grand, the Sportwagon TDI manual is $37.8, and the Prius v 3 is $37.9. And again the new Escape and CX5 are no where to be seen.

I'm still a fair bit away from the actual purchase. So now I am having fun with the salesmen! Like the Toyota guy who, after I gave him my qualifications, suggests a Rav4 that got 28 Highway. I had no sympathy when I responded to his email.

Mazda CX-5 good value | This is Staffordshire

Any thoughts on the Mazda diesel? I've read that it meets EPA standards. Also the claim that it gets 61.4 MPG combined is pretty cool. But I don't know the difference between Europe's testing and America's. So should I skim 20% off for about 49 MPG combined? That's 7 better than the Jetta Sportswagon.

I was at the local auto show and the new acura tsx wagon might fit your criteria

I realize that most people want new, and your wife doesn't like wagons, but this conversation fuels my desire to keep my '84 VW Quantum wagon. $200. for a clean body,
have a good lead for a $300. diesel transplant,

My previous '82 got 55mpg+ on cross country trips, and a 6' mattress fits perfectly
in the back.

If you'd care to spend more $ on actual family outings, and less on vehicles, one can gain MORE LIFE! I'm sure in as big a place as Atlanta, there would still be a few around,
but thats just my 2c's worth.

to Larrybuck- unfortunately this is to be a family vehicle, so I want the most up to date safety features. The wife understands that this will be the last car purchase for a very long time, so she also wants some finer options. I however, could drive that on my half hour commute and be content.

I came across this article about the diesel model in Japan. Mazda Skyactiv-D 2.2 Clean Diesel Heads to U.S. in Early 2013 They quote 44 MPG on the JC08 test. So I googled deeper to find this article for conversion over to CAFE. (read EPA) Test cycles

Basically multiply the JC08 fuel economy by 1.3 to get what the EPA figures will state. 44 turns into 57! But they also have a conversion from NEDC (Europe) to US by multiplying by 1.15. So using the figure of 61.4 MPG combined in Europe from my previous post, I get 70.61.

Crap, I'm a dummy! Just realized that all the multipliers are vehicle specific! Duh! But see how low the Toyota Yaris' were? So I'm going to redo the numbers using the low/high ranges in each column; JC08-51.48 to 61.16, Europe 63.856 to 72.452. Someone smarter than me yell at me, if this assumption is stupid or not!

I think you have it the turned around. The Japanese test is usually WAY higher than EPA testing. So, I'd go 44 / 1.3 = 33.8 mpg which seems a lot more realistic.

Daox- click on the test cycles link, then scroll down till you find the chart with alternating horizontal shading that separates the sections. They have CAFE MPG figures as well as JCO8 and NEDC. It clearly shows that American tests report higher MPG numbers than Europe or Japan. Ford Focus got 29.8 American and 22.9 Japan; with a conversion multiplier of 1.30. so 22.9 * 1.30 = 29.77.

Also the Jetta Sportwagon gets 42 highway, so if Mazda really is making more fuel efficient engines, it will need to destroy it's apples to apples comparison. I would not consider 33.8 MPG a good figure for a recently designed diesel.

chevy equinox 31.4cu ft w/ the seats up and 32mpg hwy for 2010 and on

Can't be right.

US EPA MPG numbers are always lower than NEDC numbers.


Read :
US testing is far more realistic for the average driver.
NEDC is pretty hard to beat , few drivers do so.

2000mc- sorry buddy, looking for 30 MPG combined. That really weeds out most vehicles I've been looking at. A friend of mine has one, it is really nice, though. But the Fuel Economy is just a little too low.

Euromodder- the chart did say CAFE (corporate average fuel economy). It's American, but maybe it is fundamentally different than EPA. But then again, maybe the chart is bad. Looks like I got some homework to do!

CAFE is much higher than EPA. EPA is derived from the CAFE test, but the numbers are adjusted down by a large margin. A rough estimate is EPA = CAFE * .75.

You can download a spreadsheet of the numbers here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
City FE, Hwy Fe and Comb FE are the posted EPA numbers.
City Unadj and Hwy Unadj are the CAFE numbers.

The TDI Sportwagen is 30/42 EPA, but 38.7 / 59.9 CAFE.

So something interesting has developed...

We were looking at an automatic Mazda CX5 Highway MPG 32. All the sudden the GMC Terrain and Chevy Equinox and Kia Sportage and Hyundai Tucson all are getting 32 MPG

Somebody has been sandbagging FE technology. Surprise, surprise...

shifting away from looking for combined mileage to focusing on hwy? whats new about the equinox and terrain?

Gasoline direct injection

yes go with the mazda.
my sister awd cx-5 is getting 29-33mpg.

Okay, so my wife called an audible and switched to liking sedans, in a dealership no less. So we finally settled on a 2013 Nissan Altima. We got enough room to fit a stroller in the back with luggage for a family trip. The beast gets 29/31/39 FE, which is cool because the 2012 gets 32 highway. I used fueleconomy.gov and the only sedans that got better FE were hybrids and diesels, wife isn't ready for a hybrid yet. The VW Passat got a few more MPGs but also uses a more expensive fuel and needs an exhaust system additive to meet EPA.

So my online research says that Nissan wasn't investing in Direct Injection, but the Nissan site says it has DI, so my question is what is Nissan Direct Injection and how does it differ from other manufacturers?

But nissan has dual overhead cams with both the intake and exhaust having variable timing. And some variable intake trickery. But they overhauled the CVT less friction, larger ratio spread. I read somewhere that it will do 100MPH at 2,500 RPM (not that I will ever find that out!)

My biggest problem is that my wife LOVES the remote start and using the car to hands free phone calls and chat away while parked and idling. And the thing has a push button start with no accessory position, so either the car is on or the car is off. She is not even meeting the EPA city so far. Maybe it's her lead foot as well...

Any tips for CVT hypermiling??

Glad you're happy with your purchase. Might have to wait for engine break-in for better economy.

If its like my Prius' push button start you should be able to get accessory mode by just pressing the start button, but not pushing the brake down and pushing the start button (which is required to actually start the car). I'd be completely shocked if the car had absolutely no accessory mode.

For accelerating with a CVT stick it at an efficient rpm and keep it there. That means generally around 1500 - 2500 rpm. Coast when possible, avoid brake use, the norm really except for accelerating.

Thanks, I actually got some drive time with the damn thing and figured that one out last night after I posted. Next step is to figure out how to keep it in accessory mode and turn the ICE off, so my wife can continue her conversation.

So DWL still isn't better than P&G with a CVT?

My CVT doesn't have the act like a normal transmission mode to force early upshifts, either.

I'm not 100% sure how the Nissan CVT works (I have driven in a newer Sentra with one), but it wouldn't make sense IMO to work any other way. The Prius works by first opening the throttle to maximize the load on the engine. If the vehicle still requires more power, it starts increasing rpm at that point. So, if you are noticing your rpms increasing you're already at an optimal engine load (you might be able to verify this with a scangauge), now you just control the RPMs for how much power output you want. This is pretty much what P&G does.

With motor on. Double tap start button quick.
With foot off of brake. It cycles off then acc then on. Foot on brake off to start.

So I've noticed on my few drives with the Altima (expect wife's to be replaced by Hershey) that the transmission shifts to N from D without squeezing the trigger on the shifter. Does this mean that the engineers are giving us a wink to P&G? Also I've been using the overdrive button to DFCO and save the brakes a little. My wife thinks I am being too hard on the tranny, but it is a logic thing for the tranny. Any thoughts?

All vehicles with auto trannys do that (to the best of my knowledge).

It is a safety feature which allows you to quickly cut all power to the wheels. Very handy when you loose traction on icy roads.

IMO the overdrive button should be on all the time, are you saying you turn it on and off?

Yes, the altima turns on with OD on and there is a side button on the shifter to turn it off. This thing has a lower rolling resistance than my MINI did, and much more than my Ranger does. So some of this turning the OD off to DFCO is because I haven't gotten used to my new car and misjudged some glides. And as I stated earlier this CVT also has some very long legs, I think the tallest gearing allows cruising at 80mph @ 2K RPM.

I have an 1600 mile round trip weekend coming up this month. I'm going to try to compromise with the wife and get her to accelerate at max of 2k rpm and cruise at +5mph over the speed limit, if I do +5 as well. On wife's fuel log the 45mpg tanks are me doing this trip cruising at the speed limit, which totally pissed her off. But then she gets 29mpg tanks going to work which is about 50/50 highway to city??

Does the car have paddle "shifters" or a +/- gate on the shift lever? Reason I ask: I was surprised to learn that I could coax a CVT in a Jeep Patriot to give me higher gearing for a given road speed than the default programming would otherwise have offered. See: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...rly-21149.html

No it doesn't. Only the V6 Altimas have the paddle shifters. I thought maybe the Ds spot on the tranny was that feature. But that just made for a sportier fuel map. Add in the OD off feature and you could seriously burn through some dinojuice.

I would just like to brag that the Malibu Eco (hybrid) doesn't get as good FE as my altima.