Lowest drag side mirrors
Any sources on testing of the lowest drag side mirrors?
In other words, for a given frontal area, what shape mirror is most slippery? Long stalk, further from side glass? Short stalk, partially in wake of car frame? Bullet shape? |
I am interested in this topic also.
Just beginning to plan/start aero mods on a 2000 Camry. I will post if I find anything. Pete |
Otto -
I think these are good candidates : http://www.ilovebodykits.com/images/..._TC-RMS-F1.jpg They can be $70 a pair for a good set, or less than $30 for a pair on flea-bay if you look around. CarloSW2 |
What about Chang Ho Kim's boattailed mirror?
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An other source may be mirrors used on open wheeled or other race cars that could be adapted to ecomoded road cars. They are very small in terms of frontal area and well shaped. I think I will look for some myself now that I thought of it! Thanks for the question.
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RobertSmalls -
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http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...r-10203-3.html http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/102_3530.jpg You could probably combine the best of both worlds. A small-enough-to-use mirror with the boattail design. I found a candidate for the mirror housing in a hobby shop. Think R/C model airplane canopies : E-Flite Canopy: F-15 Eagle DF ARF http://www.rcplanet.com/v/vspfiles/p...EFL7060-2T.jpg The above is *only* a pictorial example, it may not be the right scale. I think you need one to be about 12" long if it is going to contain a 2" convex mirror. Here is one that is 9" : Great Planes Canopy Patriot/Dazzler GPMQ2255 - Toysonics.com http://www.toysonics.com/images/T/GPMQ2255-01.jpg Imagine the above with the mirror mounted inside the flat interior part. Neither of the above egg-zamples are egg-zactly what I was hoping to show. If you go into a hobby shop you can find a really good on for maybe $10 or less. At one point I had an "Easter Egg Mirror", but that had too much refraction from the clear plastic and didn't work well : http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...egg-mirror.jpg The question in all of these "clear covered" mirror designs is whether or not the clear cover interfers with the visibility. The good thing about a "canopy mirror cover" is that the interior side should not have the clear plastic between the mirror and the side window. I just realized that I didn't test this theory in the hobby shop. Next time I go I will take a round-convex mirror with me and do the test. If it looks good, then maybe I will try a new side-view mirror design. CarloSW2 |
redyaris -
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CarloSW2 |
If anyone finds the universal F1 style wheels for cheap, make sure to share. So far I've found $70 to be the lowest for the universal ones.
Mirror set, pair, F1 Race style, manual, black or carbon fiber look, without heat: Electrodyne, Quality Motoring Accessories |
AeroModder -
(I don't vouch for the quality ...) Ok, looks like $28 a pair : 00-04 FORD FOCUS F1 BLACK RACING SIDE MIRRORS 01 02 03 : eBay Motors (item 220569231209 end time Apr-08-10 14:05:02 PDT) CarloSW2 |
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/102_3530.jpg
Bwaahahahaha!!! I'd like to see the yarn/smoke tests on that baby... fail! :rolleyes: http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...egg-mirror.jpg Me thinks trailing airflow on eggs ain't where it's at either... |
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Frank -
Yeah, I guess I'm just an Easter Bunny fan. I tried to force it to work because I'm an "off-the-(chocolate-)shelf" fan. I still like how it looked in its own funny way. The next time I go to the hobby shop I will strain the patience of the owner ... "Can I put this up against the glass door with a mirror in it to look for refraction? I promise I'll buy it if I have good visibility ... Why are you looking at me that way?!?!?!". CarloSW2 |
I like how it looks too!
But aero? Naaaaah... |
Race cars use a thinner more elongate pair of mirrors. I am not really sure if the wake part can be edited due to the reduction in the field of vision.
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After Market Mirror choices for a Gen4 Camry, pls help me pick best aero one.
OEM Style NG!
1993 93 CAMRY MIRROR Toyota power mirrors RH NEW : eBay Motors (item 110447728897 end time Apr-17-10 12:55:19 PDT) 3 other inexpensive mirrors. 98-01 TOYOTA CAMRY M3 SIGNAL CHROME POWER MIRRORS 99 00 : eBay Motors (item 220580367190 end time Apr-27-10 14:22:42 PDT) 98-99-00-01 Toyota Camry JDM Side View Mirror+FREE GIFT : eBay Motors (item 220578264879 end time Apr-23-10 14:22:56 PDT) 98-01 TOYOTA CAMRY F1 RACING SIDE MIRRORS RACING 00 99 : eBay Motors (item 220574975639 end time Apr-18-10 13:04:58 PDT) I believe the last one is the best for aero BUT the other 2 above have better "street" appeal. Are they any good aero wise or just all looks? Tks for the aero assistance Pete |
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Aeromodder -
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CarloSW2 |
I agree, all the products show the same pic no matter what car they are for...
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"So these mirrors are a direct fit, bolt on like OEM replacements? The $29.50 price plus 17.66 shipping is for BOTH left and right mirrors or are the mirrors $29.50 each?" Lets see if they reply and what they say. 11 negs, 6 neutrals out of 167 this month. Thats about 1 in 10 NG. But there were a lot of reviews for mirrors that were good. Pete |
I'm pretty sure they would be if they take the trouble of listing for specific makes and models. I'm actually leaning toward the universal base that'll drill into the side of the door. I've had to replace a window before, so I'm familiar with how to install them. That'll also give me more freedom in positioning for better visibility and/or aero.
Though this talk of smoothing out the sides has given me an idea for a new project to smooth out the sides- Get some Lexan over the windows to make them flush with the door frames. One of my rear windows won't roll down anyway! I'll take some pictures and start a new thread later on. Also, I sent a message to the seller yesterday asking about other models, but no answer yet. |
pgmomni -
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I had to scan their messy posting until my eyes started to bleed, :o, but they do say two mirrors. CarloSW2 |
AeroModder -
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CarloSW2 |
sticky
I believe there is some mirror info in the sticky on mod data.Off hand,the Ford Probe-IV and Subaru XT are two cars of which mirror research was conducted.I believe that the Probe's were 'neutral'.
Air is very fast near the A-pillars.If the mirror must be near there,you want it further out where the air is slower like the original Impact in 1989. |
el cheapo mirrors?
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COcyclist -
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CarloSW2 |
I bought mine here:
Autodynamic.com and the bases (bigger plastic triangle) were specific to my car and actually appear to fit the door pretty well. The smaller triangle is attached to the mirror and secures to the adapter base with 3 screws. They are much smaller and the stalk moves them away from the A pillar as Aerohead suggests. The VW mirrors fold so I came up with another solution. I'll try to post pictures tonight. |
...I think obtaining a "lowest drag" mirror is like "saving money"...where the best way to save money is to "...not spend it!"
...thus the lowest drag mirror is NO external mirror (use a camera!) |
Old Tele man -
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CarloSW2 |
I heard back from the Ebay seller of the el-cheapo F1 mirrors. Not helpful at all.
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AeroModder -
Yeah, thanks for making the effort. They are pretty cheesy. COcyclist posted what I was suspecting. The triangular base you see in all the pictures is generic and attaches to a *custom* base designed for your car. This gives the base a 3-sided "stepped pyramid" look : http://www.autodynamic.com/transfer/...ED-VWG9904.jpg Therefore, if you make your own smooth looking base, you can attach the mirror to that. If the Tempo had OEM side mirror covers in a super-no-frills model, that could be your base. Again, notice in the above picture that the triangular base is not "flush" to the one that attaches to your car. Ideally I think that you would want to inset the base. CarloSW2 |
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Motorcycle mirrors are (slightly) convex, if I am not mistaken. And mounting those with the angled stalk would be interesting -- maybe the 'L' can be positioned back, and the mirror has enough pivot in it to make them useful?
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RandomFact314 -
Oh yeah, I have spent a *ton* of time scouring motorcycle websites and e-bay for mirrors. I do have a very cool pair of motorcycle mirrors that would have cut my side-view-mirror size in half (and looked good on the car, IMO), but I "leapfrogged" that possibility and I am presently down to one leetle bicycle mirror, so I don't have the need. Neil - Quote:
Another possibility is snowmobile mirrors. You can get small ones that are also convex. This is my favorite one that I never got : Side Mirror Snowmobile Mirror Wing : eBay Motors (item 250240833784 end time Apr-14-10 06:30:51 PDT) http://www.smartchamp.com/Clarion/Im...eWingMirro.jpg They are convex, have an adjustable mount that is compatible with cars, and they are *small*, 2.5" * 4". They don't have a stalk mount, but you can't have it all. CarloSW2 |
Not bad, but they still have the bulky base, which is going to add wasted frontal area. Though I do like the convex glass, since it will allow you to use a smaller mirror.
I'm just going to stick with the $70 pair I found that'll bolt onto the side of the door, then just cut and tape some coroplast over where the old mirrors were. But that's after I get the money, since ordering the new tires cleaned me out for a while. |
So far I have to agree...
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look OK and actually make much difference. So for now, I am moving onto other aero mods I can actually do for little to no $$$. Under belly pan, front upper grille delete. Larger, skinny tires, full moon hubcaps. Later maybe a full vinyl fabric aero bra to smooth out the entire front of car. Thanks everyone for the mirror info. Pete |
Thanks for all the input.
Coupla thoughts: Closer to the window glass probably = slower slipstream than further out, for lower drag since drag increases exponentially with airspeed Use Great Stuff polyurethane insulation foam to make streamlined shapes of stock mirrors? That way, a flat mirror and its stalk could be easily sculpted to much more aero shape. Best idea might be clear model airplane canopy over smaller mirror pretty close to the window glass. Go on Youtube with keywords "plastic vacuum forming" or similar and see how to do this in your kitchen oven + shop vac. |
I think these may be the most aerodynamic I've seen
Doesn't it make sense to follow the teardrop shape for mirrors? http://www.racemirrors.com/engineering.html http://www.racemirrors.com/PFE-CF-E-flow-viz-web.jpg At least thinking in mirrors alone - without car - it seems logical to me For a complete solution (car+mirror) I wonder if the solution found in some Opel would be good for any car http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ectraB98_2.JPG What do you guys think of this?? |
The Racemirror with the clear extension may indeed be the most aerodynamic mirror out there but at $135 each it would take decades to break even on fuel savings.
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I totally agree with you COcyclist, I think no mirror will save you more money than it costs, and with this one is more true!
But I always think in modding my existing mirrors to get this shape Even I can use a plastic bottle to do this clear extension, even if I have to change it every 2 months or so (sunlight will degrade it) it may be worth... |
An issue I've noticed on my car (with no side mirrors) this week with tuft testing is the assumed horizontal airflow around the mirror is not correct (at least not on my car, I think most others would show similar results). The airflow where the mirror was is actually inclined in an upward direction (about a 45 degree angle or therabouts) so mirrors that look great for horizontal flow are not even close to good for what's actually happening. I see many mirrors that are flat on the bottom which seems to be the about the worst design.
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Hi Robert,
What you say seems to coincide with a drawing from the Hucho book "Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles": http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...uchoFig1-8.png |
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