Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2025, 07:57 PM   #41 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 578
Thanked 621 Times in 524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
That was inappropriate and I apologize. I'll change it to ' the 'std' that you espouse.

So now I'm wondering what's the minimum viable Tesla one-way valve.

Coincidentally, JEGS sells a Chevy 350 ramjet crate engine.
No probs.

I'm not sure where you want to put a Tesla Valve?
We're talking about venting into the low pressure areas of a car, where there is no backward flow at any reasonable speed/load?
IMHO the Tesla valve is best suited being used in the right place/s in an engine exhaust where there is pulsatile flow.
(Yes I'm aware of the sound pressure pulses too, but despite aerohead's protestations; pressure pulses dominate)

Unless there is an aerodynamically designed, and airtight duct around that air filter; there's nothing ram air about it! (Bell Mouth and static pressure recovery. And another bell mouth inside the filter)
All it might do is avoid some of the hot/thin air likely to collect further back above the engine, making slightly more power but not improving economy.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-17-2025, 08:56 PM   #42 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 578
Thanked 621 Times in 524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
With the bare metal engine compartment have you thought about the aerodynamics of that compartment interior?

My thinking would be full bellypan with louvers at the rear corners of the hood, to throw hot air around the A-pillars.
The rear corners of the hood are likely to be more of a high pressure area under the effect of that side profile graph.
If one moved them outward to the top back of the fenders, where that curve is ending parallel to the car's flanks; maybe... But that's just my basic understanding of aero. And any aerodynamicist worth his salt knows; he doesn't really know for sure.
What that aero freeware called again? That may be the tool to employ to more accurately see what's what.

"the bare metal engine compartment":
I've thought that a gentler radius from the firewall to the 'below foot' floorpan, along with an extended, slightly drooping but bump-up-able, possibly adjustable bellypan may be an idea.
But radiusing the firewall-floorpan is not an easy mod that wont effect chassis rigidity etc.

At this point of modification the: Up through the A-pillars to a roof slot above the sun visors thing becomes feasible.

I'd say that a deformable and bounce back front skirt from conveyor belt is easier. (if not lighter)
One can think of this as 'pulling a vacuum into which the engine compartment exit air can flow more easily, or without competition.
I NB that one would want to add a much (left-right) curvature as possible to such, to give it rigidity in the up/down direction as well as better aero.
ie: The skirt would start as far forward as the front most bit of bumper in the center and curve backward as much as possible from there, and all that while looking good!?

Also to NB:
Exhaust has around 4X more volume than intake air due to temperature. (on average through the exhaust length)
That means that, after any tuned lengths and Pressure Wave Termination, cooling it asap will result in less back-pressure...
There is also evidence of very noticeable decreases in noise from cooling exhaust.
ie:
From (and including) any Pressure wave termination back; cooling the exhaust is desirable for economy etc and under-body flow directing and perhaps some small cooling fins are worth a thought.
Less desirable is the condensation of the gallon of water formed for every gallon of fuel burned, rusting your mufflers etc out!
Then there's that whole Optimal Place to Exit thing.

(I NB that the max vacuum area of your beetle seems to be above the number plate from that video and NB that these might be made to exit in that area. )

Last edited by Logic; 05-17-2025 at 09:20 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2025, 12:03 AM   #43 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 30,770
Thanks: 8,778
Thanked 9,474 Times in 7,817 Posts
Quote:
I'm not sure where you want to put a Tesla Valve?
To replace the flapper valve in a pulse jet.

Quote:
ie: The skirt would start as far forward as the front most bit of bumper in the center and curve backward as much as possible from there, and all that while looking good!?
Like this?
__________________
.
..
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

___________________
.
..
The older I get, the better I was -- John Fogerty on Joe Rogan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2025, 01:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Macskyver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 115
Thanks: 3
Thanked 242 Times in 67 Posts
Wow! You guys gave me a lot of information to digest. Thanks! This just reminds me that there might be some very deliberate things that Lexus did to improve aero and noise reduction that aren't entirely obvious. I need to be somewhat careful of the things I delete in that regard. They went as far as to use weird paper rolls in the HVAC instead of normal blend doors to reduce noise. Who knows what I'll find if I look hard enough.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2025, 02:06 AM   #45 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 30,770
Thanks: 8,778
Thanked 9,474 Times in 7,817 Posts
i apologize for the threadjack. Bellmouths and Meredith Effect are popular topics.
__________________
.
..
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

___________________
.
..
The older I get, the better I was -- John Fogerty on Joe Rogan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2025, 02:24 AM   #46 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 578
Thanked 621 Times in 524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macskyver View Post
Wow! You guys gave me a lot of information to digest. Thanks! This just reminds me that there might be some very deliberate things that Lexus did to improve aero and noise reduction that aren't entirely obvious. I need to be somewhat careful of the things I delete in that regard. They went as far as to use weird paper rolls in the HVAC instead of normal blend doors to reduce noise. Who knows what I'll find if I look hard enough.

Glad you're enjoying it all Macskyver!

Ye those belly pan etc covers for one.
BUT
NB that as 68% of fuel is used accelerating weight in the Urban driving cycle, there's a fine line between weight saving and aero that car makers do a LOT of research on.
ie:
"As our market looks to be doing 98% Urban/City stop-go driving, leaving off the belly pan actually gives us better FE on average..."
OR
the opposite.

Another thing to consider is electric clutches like the one on the aircon pump.
Lets say you put one on the steering pump.
Now you can click it on for parking etc and switch it off at higher speeds.
There are losses in the pulley system and the weight is back, but the missus can now drive it to go get milk etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2025, 02:29 AM   #47 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 578
Thanked 621 Times in 524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
To replace the flapper valve in a pulse jet.
Ah... IIRC there are a number of videos on YouTube where this is played with.
But pulse jets are NOT known for economy!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Like this?
Yep! more or less...
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Logic For This Useful Post:
freebeard (05-18-2025)
Old 05-18-2025, 03:15 AM   #48 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Macskyver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 115
Thanks: 3
Thanked 242 Times in 67 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic View Post

Glad you're enjoying it all Macskyver!

Ye those belly pan etc covers for one.
BUT
NB that as 68% of fuel is used accelerating weight in the Urban driving cycle, there's a fine line between weight saving and aero that car makers do a LOT of research on.
ie:
"As our market looks to be doing 98% Urban/City stop-go driving, leaving off the belly pan actually gives us better FE on average..."
OR
the opposite.

Another thing to consider is electric clutches like the one on the aircon pump.
Lets say you put one on the steering pump.
Now you can click it on for parking etc and switch it off at higher speeds.
There are losses in the pulley system and the weight is back, but the missus can now drive it to go get milk etc.
I think in my case it's going to be a matter of balance. I will probably give up a bit in the areas of pure aero and economy to make things a bit more simple and easy to work on. The electrical clutch on the power steering is a great idea, although I am heavily leaning towards the full manual steering. My wife can drive her prius to go get milk.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Macskyver For This Useful Post:
Logic (05-20-2025)
Old 05-18-2025, 01:22 PM   #49 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 30,770
Thanks: 8,778
Thanked 9,474 Times in 7,817 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic
But pulse jets are NOT known for economy!?
A copius duct, lined with reversion cavities, might be only 80% effective with sufficient flow; but we're talking about waste heat and cooling air. So, is economy really an issue?

(Did you notice the West Coast mirrors mounted forward of the A-pillar? Air would be moving sideways there and encounter the edge rather than the face of the mirror.)
__________________
.
..
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

___________________
.
..
The older I get, the better I was -- John Fogerty on Joe Rogan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2025, 06:04 AM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,401
Thanks: 578
Thanked 621 Times in 524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
A copius duct, lined with reversion cavities, might be only 80% effective with sufficient flow; but we're talking about waste heat and cooling air. So, is economy really an issue?
Oh!...
I see where your head is heading with this... more or less... I think!?
So you want to use entrained (exhaust) flow to pull fresh air into a pulse type jet and then?
Then add fuel and 'explode' it and 'jet' the exhaust??

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
(Did you notice the West Coast mirrors mounted forward of the A-pillar? Air would be moving sideways there and encounter the edge rather than the face of the mirror.)
You mean that green toy VW bus pic? Nope. But now you mention it..!

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Logic For This Useful Post:
freebeard (05-20-2025)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com