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SVOboy 05-21-2009 12:50 PM

Metro Buddy: A Modern Citicar?
 
The Metro Buddy, a tiny electric car from Norway, seems to have a lot of the same design inspiration as the Citicar, which was built in the U.S. up until 25 years ago.Despite its small size, the Metro Buddy will be able to get up to 50 mph and have a range of 50 to [...]Related posts:
  1. The Geo Metro is Taking Over!
  2. BMW Working on Their Answer to the Geo Metro?
  3. First Citicar World Gathering in Columbia, Maryland

More...

TomO 05-21-2009 02:42 PM

He doesh not know he ish tiny!
http://www.alanjohns.fsnet.co.uk/gol...goldmember.jpg
I like Gooold (ones)!

But will it be available in the U.S.?

MazdaMatt 05-21-2009 04:10 PM

Why do they have to be so ugly? Why can't anybody make an econo car that doesn't look so stupid? There is no mass market appeal for a stupid looking car.

Goldmember was dutch, not norweigen.

dcb 05-21-2009 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105564)
Why do they have to be so ugly? Why can't anybody make an econo car that doesn't look so stupid?

Thats kind of a shallow and nasty thing to say. I'm sure citicar and eco car people don't appreciate it. I like vehicles (like this) that put function before form myself, and hope other people can start to see the practicality in such an approach, insted of horking up subjective knee jerk crud that doesn't do anything but reinforce shallow ways of thinking.

If you don't like it because you are worried about your girlfriend not liking it then that would be a really sad state of affairs for you :) "Help, I don't have any redeeming qualities besides a nice looking car!!" lol

UfoTofU 05-21-2009 08:49 PM

High-end cars, like the Roadster, seem gaudy

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 08:03 AM

dcb, not the case at all. How is this function over form? Don't we nit-pick to great ends about the aerodynamic qualities of cars? So this ugly wedge hits the market with no thought to form OR function, only an electric motor, and we're all supposed to cheer? It makes "us" (the people who want green cars) look silly. I'm all for that sweet looking canopied electric tandem trike from australia, but it was a prototype, not a production model. (I would link, but i can't find it right now. The point is, there are e-cars that look awesome, this one does not).

dcb 05-22-2009 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105686)
dcb, not the case at all. How is this function over form? Don't we nit-pick to great ends about the aerodynamic qualities of cars? ...

citi cars are, as the name implies, meant for urban transportation, takes a lot less room, goes slow so aero isn't a big deal, but a smaller frontal area does help. Designed to be affordable and thus economically in reach of more people. Runs on electricity. It's function is not hauling boats or gumball rallys. All that aero can take up a lot of parking room.
http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...12427490520001

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 02:00 PM

And yet it is designed for 50mph travel. I regularly drive 70km/h in my city.

At least the shape and styling of a Smart ForTwo (also city-oriented with aero not a main focus, but better than this thing) isn't hideous.

I love that they are bringing a 50mph e-car to the market. I am dissapointed that it will be a huge flop because it looks ugly. You really CAN have the best of both worlds.

UfoTofU 05-22-2009 02:01 PM

I think this design costs less to manufacture

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 02:03 PM

Definately!

dcb 05-22-2009 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105738)
You really CAN have the best of both worlds.

Do you know of an aerodynamic affordable electric vehicle that seats two + groceries, and that you can sit upright in that fits three per parking space?

Would you be willing to put in the effort to draw a picture to convey your thoughts better? I mean "ugly" and "stupid" are just not very constructive, but if you know how to make such a niche vehicle aero friendly then please demonstrate.

I don't think you need to lose any sleep about the metro buddy coming over here anytime soon though. It isn't impractical enough I guess :)

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 02:25 PM

Look, even if you dismiss aero, your car doesn't have to be ugly. Take a smart, make it electric with the exact same stats as the Metro buddy - 50mph, 50 miles. Poeple would eat it up.

If you want it aero, make it a roadster. A little one like the old spitfires and MG's. Make it electric, make it 50mph with 50 mile range (you'd have more due to aero, i'm just being easy).

I may be a tech geek, but I still have a shred of human left in me that tells me that thing is ugly. Print a picture of it and stand outside your local mall saying "would you be caught dead in this vehicle?"... you'll get beat up and spit on (figuratively speaking).

You're so strongly against a decent looking electric car... why?

dcb 05-22-2009 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105748)
Look, even if you dismiss aero, your car doesn't have to be ugly.

You said it was ugly because of the lack of aero, now you have contradicted that. You do not appreciate it for what it is IMHO. It would be like criticizing the color of a screwdriver, where you feel it is important that other screwdriver color critics know your opinion. This car is a basic, non-presumptuous, tool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105748)
Take a smart

The smart suffers the same issues because it is just about the same niche size wise. It has basically the same external dimensions as a chopped top johnny on the spot with wheels. Perhaps you would like to critique porta-pottys to for our benefit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105748)
You're so strongly against a decent looking electric car... why?

Absolutely incorrect. I would buy a tesla (lotus) or even a acabion (spaceship) or even an electric sting ray would be cool too (with low rr tires) given enough money. But if I need to spend my money thriftily I look for an econobox (or econowedge in this case).

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 02:47 PM

Actually... i bought these cheap made in china screwdrivers where the red and green ones were not #2 and #3 robbies and i was cheesed. Poor design. :p

Actually, i didn't say it is ugly because it lacks aero considerations. I said it is ugly AND it lacks aero considerations making it have neither form NOR function. I think the aptera is ugly, therefor it is a shining example of function over form. I also feel that its ugliness (think: national survey, not your own personal opinion) will limit its sales drastically; it won't be "the next Honda Civic".

You misinterpreted my use of the Smart in my example. It is an example of a car that dismissed aero consideration but still looks good. I personally don't think of it as a highly attractive car, but it sells to mass market. Unlike an ugly wedge.

So you feel that an econobox can't be stylish? I rather like the look of a Civic and my Protege. A Geo Metro looks far better than this wedge.

All nit-pickity conversation slicing details aside, my broad point is: If you're going to make an electric car, don't make it look like a joke, or it won't fly. That car will never reach mass market appeal because it is stupid looking.

dcb 05-22-2009 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105755)
That car will never reach mass market appeal because it is stupid looking.

And my point is such statements also help reinforce stupid and shallow mentalities, as well has help prevent mass market appeal.

Investing your esteem in your vehicle is dumb, everybody does it, but it is still dumb. Parroting stupidity is stupid.

Clev 05-22-2009 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105748)
If you want it aero, make it a roadster. A little one like the old spitfires and MG's. Make it electric, make it 50mph with 50 mile range (you'd have more due to aero, i'm just being easy).

Some of the highest-mileage EVs in the EVDL are based on the Karmann Ghia. It seems like a good shape for efficiency.

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 03:04 PM

I'm re-inforcing nothing. These mentallities are a reality of the world. To deny it is rediculous! To make electric cars that fit the "electric cars look stupid" mentality does nothing to break it. To support that does nothing to advance the technology. To deny our human instict to enjoy art and beauty is reinforcing the mentallity that electric cars are for geeks. Wake up in the real world.

MazdaMatt 05-22-2009 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clev (Post 105759)
Some of the highest-mileage EVs in the EVDL are based on the Karmann Ghia. It seems like a good shape for efficiency.

excellent example of a beautiful car that functions well as an electric car!

dcb 05-22-2009 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 105760)
I'm re-inforcing nothing. ...Wake up in the real world.

LOL, who needs to wake up? :) Don't lecture me on beauty or art, you cannot possibly convince me that you understand the domain of such things, aside from immediate visceral gratification of your own liking.

UfoTofU 05-22-2009 03:24 PM

I like the Metro Buddy, especially when compared to the said gaudy Roadster

dcb 05-22-2009 03:40 PM

I like it too (obviously :) ). Its size would alleviate a lot of city/metro type congestion issues since you can park 3 to a spot (physically anyway), and it wouldn't release its emissions in the heart of a population center. It is a very practical example of a city vehicle, that gets put down for completely irrelevant concerns like "I think it is ugly". Like the video says, 30 years later it is still ahead of its time :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

binarycortex 05-22-2009 04:27 PM

Once again I refer to Buckminster Fuller. "When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

UfoTofU 05-22-2009 04:37 PM

The solution is beautiful

binarycortex 05-22-2009 05:07 PM

I'd like to see the crash test results... I hope its not like the Reva/G-Wiz

UfoTofU 05-22-2009 05:09 PM

I don't know about safety

dcb 05-22-2009 05:46 PM

Varying paths to safety should be a personal choice, and Jeremy Clarkson is an idiot.

UfoTofU 05-22-2009 05:47 PM

I believe the most important safety feature is a safe driver, however

dcb 05-22-2009 05:55 PM

Absolutely. Unfortunately you make people feel safe in their cars and they stop paying attention to the road and other drivers, pedestrians.

metroschultz 05-24-2009 06:55 PM

A crumpet eating,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 105806)
Varying paths to safety should be a personal choice, and Jeremy Clarkson is an idiot.


Tea swilling idiot at that.
But damn funny at times.

binarycortex 05-25-2009 12:58 AM

God Bless Rudolf Diesel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 105806)
Varying paths to safety should be a personal choice, and Jeremy Clarkson is an idiot.

I really enjoy topgear and Clarkson is quite funny. I'll agree he is an idiot when it comes to diesel, the whole lot of them are down on diesels cause all they care about is raw blistering performance and speed. Well then I suggest we introduce them to Gale Banks. He believes that hot rods can be green as well as powerful. He took a Dodge Dakota and put in a Cummins 6cyl turbo diesel and then pumped it up to 750 hp and 1300 ft/lbs of torque. Then took it to Bonneville and went 222mph. Oh yea, all the 200mph cars that go to Bonneville get towed on a trailer, the Sidewinder towed a trailer there. Now for the Good part.

"The fuel economy test configuration of the Sidewinder was almost identical to when it arrived at the Bonneville Salt Flats for its Land Speed Record runs in October. The only changes included raising the ride height slightly for additional ground clearance, replacing the racing air-to-water intercoolers with the street air-to-air intercooler, and installation of a new 3.33:1 ring-and-pinion gear set in the quick-change rearend, with 1:1 spur gears. Everything else was just as the Sidewinder arrived at Bonneville, except we didn’t pull a trailer for the mileage test.

The test loop was just over 119 miles in length, beginning at the Banks Engineering campus in Azusa, California. The route included a couple of miles on surface streets to the Interstate highway. The rest of the loop was all highway driving on I-210, I-30, and I-15, going north up the Cajon pass (about a 6 percent grade), and then back again for a total of 119.6 miles. All highway driving was done at the posted speed limits of 65 and 70 MPH in sixth gear, which is .73:1 for a final drive ratio of 2.43:l. That’s 1800 to 1900 RPM. The powerful Cummins diesel was just loafing, even up the grade. The total fuel consumed was 5.63 gallons, for an average of 21.24 MPG. Not too shabby for a truck with over 700 HP and 1300 lb.-ft. of torque on tap!" :eek:

I wonder what they could do if they put one of Bondo's Aerocaps on it. :D :thumbup:

MazdaMatt 05-25-2009 08:57 AM

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Considering the number of cars on the road that look like the Metro Buddy, i'd say most beholders don't find the boxwedge to be beautiful. Practical, maybe, but since when did practicality and efficiency sway the general public?

dcb 05-25-2009 09:23 AM

This is my point Matt, you come out openly against a practical vehicle based on appearances only, then say the general public doesn't go for practical. You are at some level looking for validation of your position here. All them little cars from europe and asia had a health dose efficiency and practicality in them, but now it seems fashionable for folks like clarkson to make fun of practicality and hence usher in an era of stupidity on a global scale.

You label your baser response to the vehicles appearance as uniquely human, where a human may be uniquely suited to seeing beauty beyond appearances.

Say what you want, but at least understand what purpose it serves when you say it, intentional or not.

MazdaMatt 05-25-2009 09:28 AM

I am not wholey against the vehicle. I am only against its appearance. I personally find it ugly, but that's not even the point... the point is, 99.9% of the worlds population will find it ugly and its benefits will not outweigh that glaring issue in the minds of 99.9% of those people that find it ugly. Other than its looks, I am not against this car at all (though I worry about its safety... but that's not something you can judge by looking at it). I just wish that a company producing such a practical car would have made it look like something that people will actually buy (in mass market millions of units, i mean. Not a couple ecogeeks).

metroschultz 05-26-2009 09:23 AM

EcoGeek here,
count me in the .01%
I'd buy one
If it comes here
and if I have the cash. (still dealing with this downturn economy, don'tcha know)

MazdaMatt 05-26-2009 09:27 AM

That's good. I'm glad that some people will be all over this thing. Call it "early adoption", just like people that used cell phones (big *ugly* ones) in 1990. Eventually they got better and more esthetically pleasing - but they wouldn't have if nobody got on board at the start. I'll wait for the Nokia Buddy :)

rmay635703 08-29-2009 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt (Post 106351)
That's good. I'm glad that some people will be all over this thing. Call it "early adoption", just like people that used cell phones (big *ugly* ones) in 1990. Eventually they got better and more esthetically pleasing - but they wouldn't have if nobody got on board at the start. I'll wait for the Nokia Buddy :)

It may be worth noting that this vehicle was sold more or less under the Kewett Buddy namesake for what 19 years?

Somebody was buying them.

And I would as well, after all I drive the great grandfather to the "Buddy"

Peter7307 08-31-2009 08:39 PM

I have to agree with MazdaMatt regarding the aesthetics.
Functional it may be but attractive it ain't and people buy mostly on how a car looks.
Simply because no one wants to drive around in an ugly vehicle.

Ask Renault. The back end of the Megane was one of the ugliest ever stuck on a mainstream production car and the sales results mirrored what most lookers (as opposed to buyers) thought.
No real surprise when Renault announced a major redesign to "bring the vehicle more inline with market expectation and enhance sales opportunities".
Built what people want to be seen in , in other words.

One reason the Tesla garners so much publicity is because most onlookers regard it as an attractive shape and one they might like to own.

Kind of pointless to have the most efficient vehicle ever built if you don't sell any isn't it?

By the way you can package an efficient design within an attractive shape.
Citroen managed it with the CX and the GS series and the smaller Saxo and variants.

One question is why does the Norwegian car have a fabric roof ?
It rains a lot in Norway !

Pete.

Frank Lee 08-31-2009 11:57 PM

How did I miss all this fun? :confused:

There are many things that come into play regarding aesthetics.

Budget is one, skill of the designer is another, directives given the designer and the constraints they must stay within is another yet.

It is called "METRO Buddy" for a reason. Maybe it does top out at 50, but it is certain they didn't plan on 50 being the normal operating condition; they planned on it seeing mostly METRO stop'n'go. There are tricks to making a cube like this more aero but they evidently decided it wasn't the highest priority. I wouldn't try to make a rig that probably has a trip average speed of 20mph look like the Mach V either.

Looks like the budget dictated the use of flat glass. That in large part drove the rest of the styling. It would probably look silly to attempt to stick flat windows on to a curvaceous body. "Edgy" is an acceptable design aesthetic too.

They had a formula they decided to adhere to. Looks like all mgmt asked for was an evolutionary update to the Kewet design; not a revolutionary breakaway from it. Looks like most of the old parts were carried over.

I think the trunk lid was enlarged a bit. The mirrors are bigger, slightly repositioned, and better looking. Perhaps the track was widened as it now sports fender flares. Door handles and lighting have an updated look. Evidently the canvas roof was an option, even on the Kewet versions.

I can see a few things I would have done differently; that said, I don't find it repulsive.


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