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-   -   Mongoose Dolomite cyclone 3000 mid drive build (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/mongoose-dolomite-cyclone-3000-mid-drive-build-36308.html)

Hersbird 03-28-2018 10:28 PM

Mongoose Dolomite cyclone 3000 mid drive build
 
Well I sold my hi-lo camper that was going to be the coolest streamliner camper ever because we have a new plain old box camper my wife loves and is never going to let me take anything else camping again anyway. I got $2200 and figured I would build a ebike I can use sometimes commuting (3-4 miles each way), sometimes out in the woods on mainly old logging roads. Yes I know the Forest Service's policy on ebikes and I really don't care. Much of my aera will be state land where I'm good or maybe a little grey, or BLM land where I am good as they allow full on motorcycles. The old roads in forest service boundaries I could probably get away with my Subaru being on if I could get over the ditch, but a pedal assist ebike is going to be fine the 1/2% of the time I ever see another soul in the areas I like to haunt. I'm not talking wilderness areas just old decommissioned roads which we have 1000's of miles of around here.

So I also don't have a single part yet but I did order hopefully what I need.

$179 for the Walmart Dolomite 26" bike, should be in any minute hopefully.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoo...Black/55456516

$1385 total from Luna cycle for a pile of stuff
$880 for a GA 60v 24.5ah triangle battery and 5 amp smart charger.
https://lunacycle.com/batteries/pack...onic-pf-or-ga/
$382 for the cyclone 3000 mid-drive with upgraded brake cutoffs and
pedal assist add on.
https://lunacycle.com/cyclone-mid-dr...planetary-kit/
$38 for a luna cycle cyclops 1000 lumen headlamp.
https://lunacycle.com/luna-cycle-cyclops-led-light/
$21 for 3 feet of KMC bike chain.
https://lunacycle.com/kmc-bike-chain-with-master-links/
$65 shipping


With Amazon I a couple little things on order
$25 Planet big bike front fender
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CQ6PXB6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
$35 Ibera rear rack
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AA8GFSI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$1624.01 total so far

I'm waiting to see this stuff to look into other things, better brakes, better shifter, better grips, better main chain. I'm sure I will need some electrical connectors.

Down the road maybe new tires, front suspension fork or seat post suspension or both. Maybe the custom mounting bracket or the sinewave controller if the stock parts seem bad.

I also have my street motorcycle up for sale, a 75 Honda CB550F. It is just too nice and low mile for me to ride. I have decided I don't really like riding in the city anyway, and it's no good in the dirt. I had wanted to get a Yamaha TW200 fat tire motorcycle but they go over $3000 used around here so I figured I might like a ebike more. I also have 3 Honda 90's but only one motor I thought if this works I might try a cyclone 7500 watt setup with old leaf cells on one of those.

Sorry for the tease for now, I keep checking email but still nothing to actually take pictures of to show. I'll keep you posted.

oldtamiyaphile 03-28-2018 11:56 PM

Just my opinion but 3000w is going to destroy a Walmart bike in no time. It's also going to be scary to ride because the geometry is most likely rubbish. When I got my first proper bike it was absolutely amazing to ride and most of that was down to precision of the components and geometry. Cheap bikes deliberately have poor geometry to make you buy the more expensive models.

I had a $1500 Trek that only lasted ~12 months of commuting and that's just with pedal power.

Should be fun while it lasts though:thumbup:

Hersbird 03-29-2018 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile (Post 565100)
Just my opinion but 3000w is going to destroy a Walmart bike in no time. It's also going to be scary to ride because the geometry is most likely rubbish. When I got my first proper bike it was absolutely amazing to ride and most of that was down to precision of the components and geometry. Cheap bikes deliberately have poor geometry to make you buy the more expensive models.

I had a $1500 Trek that only lasted ~12 months of commuting and that's just with pedal power.

Should be fun while it lasts though:thumbup:

Technically it will be about 2400 watts but you don't have to use it all. I was more interested in the planetary gearing. I just want enough to help this old fat guy up hills and such, I'm not planning on using all of it's 45mph potential. If I can keep normal bike speeds up hill designed with cars in mind, max 7% grades and such, while also pedaling I will be happy. Oh, and with 50 pounds of gear or a trailer holding 100 pounds of animal LOL!

It's why I actually wanted a steel frame bike. I do have a Gary Fisher older mountain bike as well, also not top of the line but a nice bike in it's day. I could swap over to that but we'll see how the Dolomite holds up.

Hersbird 03-30-2018 12:55 AM

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...29-192234.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...29-192234.html
Finally came 2 days late but box was in good shape and packed well.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...29-194936.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...29-194936.html
took me 1/2 hour or so to put together stock. I rode around the yard a bit, over some rocks and curbs and such. I like it. First thing I thought was the wheels/tires didn't seem as heavy as people say. Maybe they changed the design. I also get a total bike weight of about 43 pounds and everybody said it would be 48 pounds. It's definitely iron framed. Maybe they have updated the tires.

Grant-53 03-30-2018 01:13 AM

The low end components and wheel bearings might go out first.
See https://fat-bike.com/2016/02/readers...oose-dolomite/

Ecky 04-10-2018 02:12 PM

I had a Mac geared hub motor on a Schwinn folding bike (20" wheels), ~1000w, and it was terrifying to ride. My Raleigh hybrid ($100 on Craigslist) with a 500w geared motor and triangle frame bag remains my favorite to ride of any I've built. 500w is more than enough to accelerate me up hills, but I'm not all that heavy either.

Hersbird 04-10-2018 06:42 PM

Well I should put up more pics. I have the motor all mounted and have tried the battery but there is a problem. I need to go back and re-do the main battery connection because it is trippin off with anything more than the slightest throttle or any load on the wheel. Basically I can lift of the rear tire, give it 1/16 throttle and it will spin up but any load tips it all off and requires the battery to be unplugged and plugged to reset. It might be a problem with the controller or BMS but I don't trust the connection I made up. I'm going to switch to a crimp style instead of the soldier.
Good thing is it is much quieter than I expected and isn't that much different to pedal without the assist. That poor bottom bracket that came with the bike is completely replaced with a cartridge style in the kit.

Hersbird 04-11-2018 01:54 AM

Ugg, I cant figure it out. Tried a BMS reset by charging through the discharge line on the battery. Re-did the connections. Put a voltage tester inline with the battery to the motor and to me it seems the battery's BMS is cutting the power. The line reads a good 65 volts but then try the throttle with load and it trips down to 1.9 volts. Unplug and replug the battery and it's back to 65v coming from the battery. Tomorrow I'll try just running it off the charger, no battery at all and see what happens. Everyone seems to suspect the simple stock controller that came with the motor kit but I don't see how that's tripping the battery voltage in the main line directly from the battery. The batter is the most expensive thing and hardest to ship by far so I hope it's not that. I'm waiting to hear more from Luna cycle to see what they want to do as it's all brand new and under warranty.

I kind of wanted a better controller anyway but think the stock one should work before moving on.

Hersbird 04-11-2018 02:18 PM

So it has to be the controller. Running the 5 amp charger directly to the controller using no battery at all does the same thing but now will self re-set. The stock controller should be good for 40 amps continuous but it tripping somewhere below 5 amps. Now if I could get a response from Luna. I had wanted to buy an upgraded controller anyway, but they don't give you a break compared to the stock one so I figured I would have a stock working one as a backup if I bought a better one. They charge $50 for the basic stock one as a replacement but only knock $10 off if you upgrade when you order. Hopefully they will just send me a new stock one so I can get this thing on the road. I have a camping trip planned for the 20th-24th and 4000+ acres of state land open to this form of bike to use it on.

Hersbird 04-11-2018 03:10 PM

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...411-112439.jpg
this is how it looks now, bags, new seat, shifter moved to left, throttle on right, battery and controller in triangle bag.
this is the controller I think is bad
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...411-112506.jpg
Here is what it looks like size comparison to my CB550
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...329-200050.jpg
the battery and charger
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...411-112558.jpg

Hersbird 04-11-2018 03:12 PM

Also got a nice headlight
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-he...411-112424.jpg

Hersbird 04-12-2018 05:09 PM

well kudos to Lunacycle they are sending out another controller. I just hope it gets here in time.

We went and walked some of that area we want to camp and there still is over a foot of snow in places. Some patches are bare as well, nobody has driven in on the road yet I think my truck will do it. Hopefully with above freezing temps day and night solid for the next week it will almost all disappear. This has been the longest winter in some time, snowpacks are almost 200% in some of the drainages, there will be some flooding for sure this year.

Hersbird 04-25-2018 06:47 PM

The controller was not the issue, it is the battery's BMS tripping at about 3-4 amps (it should be good for 70). The controller was just self limiting to 5 amps which gave very similar symptoms. My problem now is I have to front the expensive return shipping on the battery and no new battery is coming my way from Luna, they just plan on refunding my battery purchase and then I'm on my own to find another. This whole process will tie up any money I have to buy another battery for weeks, not to mention waiting then for that to ship. Because they sent me a bum battery the whole project is taking weeks and months rather than days. So I redact my kudos to Luna at this point.

Stubby79 04-26-2018 12:53 AM

Any idea if it is tripping for legitimate reasons (cell voltage drop) or if it think's it's hitting it's current limit?

If the BMS is the problem - not a bad cell - you could replace the BMS.

Hersbird 04-26-2018 02:26 PM

Except it was brand new, never used and the BMS itself sells for $100. I would happily try and fix it myself if they sent the BMS and sent me the $100 all the shipping they are going to have to refund. In reality if I spend over $800 on a new battery it should work at least for a single ride. I was hoping for 1000 charges but didn't even get one.

samwichse 04-27-2018 12:17 PM

That's an odd experience with Luna Cycle, usually they have pretty good customer service, and a battery that didn't work right as received should get a replacement.

Hersbird 04-27-2018 05:18 PM

Well I shipped it out today at $38, if they refund everything I will buy another battery from them. It's possible the battery I had wont be sold any longer as it was "on sale" and is out of stock now. They didn't offer me any other choices for replacement, overall their tech assistance boss is pretty short with the emails. I described what I experienced, did whatever tests they asked for, even videoing the results and sending that. I just want a bike kit that works after dropping $1600 total with Luna at this point. I understand this stuff from China doesn't always work 100% first try out of the box so I have patience assuming they keep trying to make it right.

Hersbird 04-27-2018 06:23 PM

Now fedex wont even take the package back with new postage packages led and labeled exactly as it came to me. I'm starting to worry.

Hersbird 06-03-2018 08:29 PM

Well I finally got my battery refund last week. Took long enough but at least they refunded the current price which is higher that when I bought it and all my shipping. So now I can buy the same 60V battery at the new higher price or go with something else which I think may be best. My only concern is I bought a $100 charger based on the 60V battery. If I go with a 52 or 48 I either need to return the charger, which I'm tired of returning things, or I think I can open up the charger and change some settings to get a different output voltage. Currently (LOL) it's 67.2v at 5 amps and I think cuts off at 95%. It's a KP400A charger. I would rather have a 52 or 48v battery. Anybody know if you can change these things? I think I'd rather have it cut off at 90% as well. The company that sells it from China lists all possible voltages from 12-60v available with this charger https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...539687624.html
According to some other videos similar chargers have 3 pots inside to change all these settings https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...i-and-advanced
I guess I just will open it up and see what's inside.

vskid3 06-04-2018 03:49 AM

When my charger started giving me issues/I got tired of how slow it was, I started looking for alternatives. What I found was mostly sketchy Chinese chargers that were likely to die after a few months of use. I bit the bullet and bought a Cycle Satiator. It'll charge just about anything and should last a long time. There might be better options on the cheaper end now, but when you factor in the flexibility, the Satiator can be well worth it in the long run.

Hersbird 06-13-2018 03:10 PM

I'm up and running! I didn't get it going until after 9pm but took a 15 min ride. It is awesome. On some dirt hills so steep I could hardly pedal up without getting a good run at them it rolled up with no added peddling if i wanted. It is also almost silent. The tires on the road make more sound than the motor. I now am going to switch the stock controller to a nicer pure sine wave one good for even more amps or 4000 watts. I ended up with a 52 volt battery. On my 15 min ride the voltage started at 52.4 as shipped and finished still reading around 50. My charger does have adjustable pots but I haven't tried lowering it yet. I was waiting for the watt meter and new battery to arrive, now I should be able to dial that in as well.

Hersbird 07-14-2018 08:56 PM

Finally got to take the bike out for a solid shakedown. On the dirt roads it is great, cross country it depends on the country. There were many places I had to get off and cross logs or other obstacles. I also finally broke the factory chain and had to walk it out a mile or so. Overall I put maybe 10 miles on it pretty hard. Also made probably 14 additional short 1/2 mile round trips carrying gear to set up and then take down a camp (we need to pare down some). We also took turns all day going on short rides around camp.

I was able to fix the chain back at camp but will be replacing it with something better. So total of about 15-20 miles of hard use and the battery went from 56 to 51 volts. It's scary fast, I don't know the top speed but on the dirt I don't think I will ever find it. Even just going 15-20MPH is fine with me, just not having to slow to a crawl on the hills and sweat your butt off in 90 degree weather is amazing. You can go for a ride to cool off. I saw more game then I normally do, walking or driving. I don't think deer immediately recognise the sound of a bike compared to footsteps and you are going slower with better visibility than when in a car, not to mention how quiet it is, along with the speed you come up on them.

I have 2 other people now that want me to build them one after riding mine not that I would do this for money. I just think the powers that be need to re-think some rules. We are lucky here but from what I gather in Europe it's like they don't want people to get out of their cars. I even had the custodian of the land we were on approach us just as we were crossing the gate. I had a bolt come lose on the rack and he gave me a piece of bailing wire to fix it so he clearly could see what it was. We talked to him for 5-10 mins about all our plans and he never said a word about e-bikes yes or no. It was a forest service road that passes through 4 miles of The Nature Conservancy land and the guy was with the Conservancy, maybe a forest service ranger would see it differently.

Grant-53 07-17-2018 05:00 PM

Street rules for e-bikes are fairly uniform around the world. Trails are different since there are rules based on use and rates of soil erosion. The original mountain bikes were developed for fire roads in California. You are not going to tear up the ground the way a motorcycle might. Hikers and horseback riders on single tracks may be adverse to being buzzed at 15 mph. I ask permission ahead of time when in doubt.

jjackstone 07-17-2018 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant-53 (Post 573992)
Street rules for e-bikes are fairly uniform around the world...

Not so much.

The federal Consumer Product Safety Act defines a "low speed electric bicycle" as a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals, a top speed when powered solely by the motor under 20 mph (32 km/h) and an electric motor that produces less than 750 W (1.01 hp).

According to the California Bicycle Coalition, Governor Jerry Brown has signed one of the United States' most progressive electric bicycle laws, which allows 28MPH-capable electric bikes in bike lanes and allows low-power, pedal-assist electric bikes to use bike paths except when prohibited by local law.Nov 6, 2015

In most European countries there is no lower age limit so anyone can legally ride a pedelec on public roads or where the public have access. Nearly all electric bicycles sold in the UK have 250W (max continuous rated) motors and conform to both EU regulations and UK EAPC law.

In Australia it is illegal to ride an electric bicycle on road or bike paths with a stated power output of more than 200w without a pedal assist system, or 250w with a pedal assist system. The latter is also required to only have a pedal assist, and limited to do 6km/h via a throttle or cruise control mechanism.

The one good thing about the US so far is that the government hasn't cracked down on e-bike use yet the way they did with mopeds. By that I mean requiring licensing and insurance. IIRC though, New York is still a pain for ebikes. I'm sure the time will come that enough of these high mileage, fun, no gas tax vehicles will be on the road that Big Brother will extend his sticky tax hand into our pockets. JJ

Hersbird 07-19-2018 11:20 PM

Montana gets 1500 watts and 30 mph still classified as a moped and moped is pretty much a bicycle as it doesn't require a license or registration and can be ridden on most bike lanes and paths. There may be a few places where I would be limited to 20 mph to be considered a pure bicycle but that 20 mph would apply even to purely human powered bicycles. What that does mean for what I want to do, ride off road or old log roads, if those roads are on state land, which generally speaking 1/36 of the state is sate owned land, I'm good to go. No way I tear up ground like a motorbike. I went up a steep dirt incline and ran out of power near the top and had to jump off to finish. A dirt bike would have rooster tailed up that whole hill without question. No matter how hard I try my bike cannot spin the tire faster than it is travelling on even the loosest surface. What it does do is make for a nice enjoyable ride on a 90 degree+ day.
If the city ends up not wanting my bike on their roads (which I thought I paid for but whatever) I guess I'll stay in my car or truck. Funny because they picture themselves being one of the most progressive cities in the north west. So a new invention comes along to make cycling attractive to 10 times as many people and they will move to shut it down.

The federal government of the USA doesn't have much ground to stand on for laws regarding any type of personal transportation. They will certainly leave it up to the states as they should.

skyking 07-20-2018 12:11 AM

a little common courtesy and common sense go a long way. If you ride around horses like you care, always be ready to brake and give people some space I think nobody will complain. Flip the coin, act like an ass, tear things up and the response will be different :D

Hersbird 07-20-2018 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyking (Post 574118)
a little common courtesy and common sense go a long way. If you ride around horses like you care, always be ready to brake and give people some space I think nobody will complain. Flip the coin, act like an ass, tear things up and the response will be different :D

I also am out in the woods around here a lot walking (now riding) and I have seen a horse and rider once in the last 20 years. I could have avoided it completely as it was off trail as well. I have never seen one riding in town. They have places they go and most people not on horses avoid those spots because you get tired walking in constant horse **** on the narrow trails. Horses tear up and spread weeds 100 times what my bicycle ever will. But millionaires have horses and better lobbyists.

skyking 07-20-2018 01:37 PM

Squeaky wheels screw it up for everyone :)

Grant-53 07-23-2018 05:41 PM

When doing research for our state legislators for updating NY law I found the 20-30 mph range almost universal, local rules vary on power rating and transmissions. FMVSS uses the 1500w limit and many states use this.

Hersbird 08-01-2018 10:00 AM

I got a chance to try a high speed run, it will do 36mph GPS and pedaling is useless at that speed. I will probably gear it down some as is now I only use 1st -4th out of 7 speeds.


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