mpguino TDI feasability
 

I'd like to discuss the feasability of a TDI based mpguino since there seems to be a gap in the commercial offerings there. Does anyone know or have links to pertinent technical details and diagrams? Also will need a victim^H^H^H^H^H^H volunteer or two with a TDI who can help figure out the hookup details and appropriate parameters to use (might require road testing to calibrate).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

SUBSCRIBED!
Volunteered!
What do I have to buy?
I will try and scare up diagrams later today, or tonight.

Second Volunteer?
 

6 minutes? it took you 6 minutes to reply? Dang!

I have a friend that may be interested in helping/testing (I don't want to volunteer him). We have been kicking around the idea of building a few MPGuinos for our vehicles, but I didn't realize that it would be any different than my gasoline car. What are the differences, and would they be easy to overcome? I don't want to build and MPGuino and have it go unused if things don't work out. Thanks.

You have my total attention and cooperation!

This diagram might help. It's for the AHU engine that was on 95-99 Jettas, but it should be good for all TDI engines sold in NA till 2003 though wire colors may vary.

IF I recall correctly the ecu sends a pulse to the injection pump which determines time + duration.

The only issue that I can foresee is that there are actually 2 injection events for every pulse. 1) Pilot event; low flow finer mist. On my car this occours (pop) when the injection pump reaches 224-229 bar and 2)the primary injection event at 307-309 Bar.

I am concerned about the different flow rates per unit time messing up the calculations. AKA at Idle the Pilot injection could be 50% of the injector open time and at WOT it might be 5% of the time.

And at higher RPM the pump is flowing more fuel therefore it will also affect the length of injection events versus time open. (Understand my concern?)




NOTE: 2004 + CARS WILL BE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THAN MINE. They used Unit injectors.

^^
I see what you are saying about the possibility of differences, but it was my understanding that for any vehicle you are kind of taking a "smeared" number, meaning that it's an average of numbers, and is meant to get you as close as possible. I think that's what is happening on the gasoline versions also. For that matter, I think that is what happens in all vehicles with this technology, since they are not actually measuring the fuel used, they are measuring the amount of time the valves are open or the amount of air used.

This will get you better understanding of the TDI fuel management of pre-2004 engines.

That PDF gave me an Idea; does anyone know what kind of signal comes out of the needle lift sensor?

The signal to quantity adjuster N146 looks promising also, if anyone knows what that signal looks like. It might just be pwm:

"The quantity adjuster is a solenoid, a type of electric motor which adjusts the position
of the modulating piston via an eccentric shaft and thus regulates the fuel quantity
continuously from zero to max. delivery rate."

The needle lift signal should look somewhat like the left or right part of this image:http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1216813855

What do you think about the modulating piston movement sendor (G149)? It is used by the ecu as a feedback on the N146 position to determine the actual injected quantity.

I have a pot between pins 2 and 3 of G149. When I increases the resistance, the ecu is fooled and the actual injected fuel quantity goes up. At idle I can see the consumption go down on the scangauge as I increase the resistance, when in fact the injected quantity actually higher.

I do not really know the signals specifics and do not have access to equipment to look it out.

I'm guessing the N146 quantity valve signal would be a lot easier to read than the variable inductor on the position sensor. If you hooked up the former to an mpguino today you should get a signal similiar to injector duty cycle. Though I think an RPM signal will need to be added to make complete sense out of the quantity signal or sender. Like maybe on t28 (on the schematic) use pin 10 for the rpm signal, and pin 27 for the vehicle speed signal.

If adding a signal, I'd suggest analog 1 for the engine speed, and the usual 100k resistor with a 5.1 zener for now. And the PWM for quantity just like the injector signal (through digital pins 2 and 3), and leave vehicle speed on analog 0. Then everytime you get a rpm signal, look at the current quantity signal and figure out how much fuel just was squirted in.

Hello all,

Unfortunately I won't have time to build an mpguino for another month (and I don't know much about engines), but I do have a 2003 Jetta TDI that I'd like to get an mpguino working on. Just thought I'd drop in and mention interest in this endeavor and a willingness to try things out on my TDI once I get the mpquino built.

- Adam

i was actually looking for the therad known as build one last night, but couldnt locate it, could any one tell me what to order to get the ball rolling?

Oops, here it is:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...html#post22856


Leaning towards the iDuino these days and the green LCD from mouser. The rest can be had at the "shack" or mouser

Hey DCB, could you post a link to that green LCD from mouser? I looked thru the catalog, and there's like 50 green/yellow LCD's, and you can't sort by driver chip type.

I added it to post 1, but here it is. I should do the whole mouser part number list thing
NHD-0216K1Z-FL-YBW

It should have good temperature response as well, and it has pins on the top and bottom if that makes things any easier.

Oh, I didn't see it - there's a lot of info in that first post. Thanks again!

Parts ordered.

sweet :)

Just got shipment notifications!
I'm getting Excited.

still anxiously awaiting for the idino to be delivered.

Received the lcd about a week ago, already picked up all of the other parts on the list from local electronics supply house.

Still very excited; but will be out of town without the golf for 2 weeks starting on Friday, I hope it comes together by then; if not I may bring it all with me to assemble.

My dino JUST showed up (In between my last post and this one).

I do not have time to Assemble it here; however I will be evacuating with the kit (and HOPEFULLY al the parts) I will try to get it together on my forced vacation.

Hi fellow TDi-ers :D

I have an Audi A2 1.4Tdi which ScanGauge doesn't want to talk to, so I'm very interested in joining in with the TDiguino build & test.

I'd like to order the parts ASAP, but I'm based in the UK & would prefer to either get everything over here or get everything shipped as one consignment from the US to save on p&p - are there any UK based members who can point me in the right direction or is anyone producing kits yet?

I'd be willing to pay someone a few bucks for their time to gather all the parts together for me & ship them out - any volunteers?

Eamonn

p.s. dremd - hope the forced vacation went ok

Below is the MPGuino installed in my '96 Passat TDI:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/DSC00191.JPG
This pic was taken in the early stages of calibration, so its reading a bit optimistic;).
Many thanks to dcb and rmccomiskie for their helpful posts on this subject.
What I ended up doing is tapping into the ECU fuel consumption signal as a substitute for the lack of a 12V injector lead in a TDI. The ECU fuel consumption signal is a "negative pulse" which requires a minor change to the MPGuino code:
Change:
attachInterrupt(0, processInjOpen, FALLING);
attachInterrupt(1, processInjClosed, RISING);

To:
attachInterrupt(0, processInjOpen, RISING);
attachInterrupt(1, processInjClosed, FALLING);

Again, thanks to rmccomiskie and dcb for figuring this out - it would have taken me a whole lot longer (if ever) without their help.

I tapped the VSS and fuel consumption signals at the instrument cluster plug. A Bentley manual is very handy for identifying the wire #s. On my Passat, it was wire 26 and 27 IIRC. Green and white wires spliced in below:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/DSC00186.JPG

I procured an ashtray from a salvage yard Passat and cut a hole in it to make a somewhat stock appearing enclosure. Since the cigarette lighter was nearby, I tapped the constant 12V here.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/DSC00188.JPG

With about 50 miles on the MPGuino, it looks like it's going to read fairly accurately. I had a 98 Jetta TDI with scangauge and the instant MPG readings on the MPGuino look fairly consistent with what I used to see with Scangauge - i.e. Idle shows ~0.17 GPH, coasting in gear 0 GPH, steady 60 MPH cruising shows 45-50 mpg on flat ground, 5-20 MPG while accelerating or climbing hills.

I'll post back with my calibration settings when I get a few more test miles racked up.

Awesome :)

Did you leave in the injector delay?

I wonder if DREMD has noticed?

Awesome :)

And props to rmccomiskie for bringing up the vw/audi signal!

I did notice!

I SO wish I had done this first; it has been bugging me since I got the parts.

I'm VERY glad somebody else stepped up to the plate!!!

Yes, I started off with the injector delay at 100uSec based on the oscilloscope graphs of the fuel consumption signal posted by rmccomiskie. I also briefly switched it back to the default setting of 500uSec to see if the MPGuino would generate the same erratic readings noted by rmccomiskie when he used the Audi FC signal. My GPH readings were stable with either delay setting, but I switched back to 100uSec for now.

I figured I'd get the pics working for everybody not on TDI Club.

All Credit goes to yetimus.

http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/DSC00191/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/DSC00186/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/dremd/100063/DSC00188/web.jpg

Started an installation thread.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-tdi-8290.html