My 1991 Talon TSi Compound Turbo AWD

[Logic]

Originally Posted by Logic

Just thinking outside the box...hopefully!?

So was I thinking outside the box, or are you way ahead of me here!??

With compression ignition..???

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

So was I thinking outside the box, or are you way ahead of me here!??

With compression ignition..???

Once again, you're thinking the same way I am. lol

The only thing I can add is on my Passive Pre-Chamber is it already can run GCI. I just need to fine tune the tune. Now an Active Pre-Chamber would make my life way easier, but it comes down to an added cost for me. Here is the test I did by cutting the ignition that you can see where the red rpm line has a short dip that goes away then smooths out. It runs clean until about 3/4 of the way through where it has a little hiccup with a little knock then clean then it hit the rev limiter and shows the big spike in knock. This was not true GCI because I was running GEM42 fuel. So, I guess its GEM42 Compression Ignition lol. I'll share another photo to show an issue I'm having with heat that I need to test a new idea to fix that.

My biggest hurdle is time. I'm one month 18 days away from quitting my normal job and totally focus on finishing the Camaro and start testing.

I would Love to enter that FE event

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Once again, you're thinking the same way I am. lol

The only thing I can add is on my Passive Pre-Chamber is it already can run GCI. I just need to fine tune the tune. Now an Active Pre-Chamber would make my life way easier, but it comes down to an added cost for me. Here is the test I did by cutting the ignition that you can see where the red rpm line has a short dip that goes away then smooths out. It runs clean until about 3/4 of the way through where it has a little hiccup with a little knock then clean then it hit the rev limiter and shows the big spike in knock. This was not true GCI because I was running GEM42 fuel. So, I guess its GEM42 Compression Ignition lol.

A possible time (and money?) saving option might be to mod one of these tiny Toyan engines into an 'air' pump, rather than a modded diesel injector pump..?
ie:
A head replacement with one with reed valve plates (Send Cut Send) and rubber seals instead of piston ring/s.
With any luck one with a buggered head and/or cam etc may pop up on Ebay.

I'm just thinking that the independent (any gas mixture) and better filling/evacuating of the pre-chamber with COOL charge may unlock potential..?
Even/especially for GCI..??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBC7koChPsE

Originally Posted by pgfpro

I'll share another photo to show an issue I'm having with heat that I need to test a new idea the fix that.

Pre-chamber overheat / pre-ignition?
Is it more due to pre-chamber temperature, or compression heat?
Don't spoze it matters which much.

Hmmm...
I'm seeing water cooled, copper (for thermal conductivity and that H2) pre-chambers with ceramic coated nozzle (and thread?) areas here?
Perhaps copper pre-chamber with stainless steel (lowest metal thermal conductivity) nozzle and thread bit ??

If water cooling, search:
120 radiator computer

Compression heat:
It would be a hell of a challenge to find/make a reliable, fast acting one-way valve for each pre-chamber nozzle!..?

If active chamber, a tiny nozzle might restrict inflow during compression..?

Ooh!! Or tiny Tesla 'one way' Valve!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNBg_1GPuH0

Originally Posted by pgfpro

I would Love to enter that FE event

YE! That's a 'wave' worth making. just for the fun of it!
I assume you still have those combo rear wheel covers and side skirts etc, for just such an occasion!?

[freebeard]

Video ends with "science water (coffee)". I shall steal that.

[deanznz]

Hi pgfpro have you looked into Michael Ward, president of Combustion Electromagnetics Inc

========================
"Since ECO-FIRE produces a spark with five times the flow-coupling capability of standard ignitions, the Design News article highlighted the ignition-flow-coupling theory, even though it had yet to be tested. Ignition flow coupling involves placing the spark directly in the fuel mixture flow field of the engine's combustion chamber, in contrast to the more typical approach of sheltering the spark from the flow region by recessing it. CEI's high-energy spark withstands flows up to 20m/sec, says Ward, "so flow becomes an asset when igniting lean fuel mixtures be-cause it stretches the spark kernel, distributing its energy over a larger volume."


In 1977, CEI was formed to pursue lean burn. Initially, it pursued ignition aspects of lean burn and had its first success in 1986 on a Ford Escort at Lucas, England. Under conditions of 20, 35 and 50 percent load, it obtained 25, 17 and 10 percent gain in fuel efficiency at 24:1, 24:1 and 28:1 AFR, with negligible NOx — never seen before in a homogeneous charge engine, reported in the “Economist,” July 5,1986.

................

Five years later, CEI finally received the flow-tunnel from GM. The results were astonishing. GM's HEI had a lean limit of 23:1 to 26:1 AFR. The CEI ignition gave, by comparison, 33:1 to 34:1 AFR, or a hard-to-believe eight AFRs gain. Flow enhanced lean burn, contradicting Exxon's claim. Flow-coupling was seen to be the missing link in lean-burn technology.

=============================

the above were from the links below

designnews.com/motion-control/rebirth-of-lean-burn-technology

designnews.com/automotive-engineering/lean-burn-lives-

designnews.com/industry/thirty-year-quest-for-lean-burn


it seems he has a few patents under the name Michael A. V. Ward

patents.google.com/?inventor=Michael+A.+V.+Ward


.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by deanznz

Hi pgfpro have you looked into Michael Ward, president of Combustion Electromagnetics Inc

========================
"Since ECO-FIRE produces a spark with five times the flow-coupling capability of standard ignitions, the Design News article highlighted the ignition-flow-coupling theory, even though it had yet to be tested. Ignition flow coupling involves placing the spark directly in the fuel mixture flow field of the engine's combustion chamber, in contrast to the more typical approach of sheltering the spark from the flow region by recessing it. CEI's high-energy spark withstands flows up to 20m/sec, says Ward, "so flow becomes an asset when igniting lean fuel mixtures be-cause it stretches the spark kernel, distributing its energy over a larger volume."


In 1977, CEI was formed to pursue lean burn. Initially, it pursued ignition aspects of lean burn and had its first success in 1986 on a Ford Escort at Lucas, England. Under conditions of 20, 35 and 50 percent load, it obtained 25, 17 and 10 percent gain in fuel efficiency at 24:1, 24:1 and 28:1 AFR, with negligible NOx — never seen before in a homogeneous charge engine, reported in the “Economist,” July 5,1986.

................

Five years later, CEI finally received the flow-tunnel from GM. The results were astonishing. GM's HEI had a lean limit of 23:1 to 26:1 AFR. The CEI ignition gave, by comparison, 33:1 to 34:1 AFR, or a hard-to-believe eight AFRs gain. Flow enhanced lean burn, contradicting Exxon's claim. Flow-coupling was seen to be the missing link in lean-burn technology.

=============================

the above were from the links below

designnews.com/motion-control/rebirth-of-lean-burn-technology

designnews.com/automotive-engineering/lean-burn-lives-

designnews.com/industry/thirty-year-quest-for-lean-burn


it seems he has a few patents under the name Michael A. V. Ward

patents.google.com/?inventor=Michael+A.+V.+Ward


.

So you have a direct injection injector aimed at the spark in such a way that the spark is within a localized.. 'flow' of richer mixture?
Resulting in a jet of ignition/burn similar to what comes out of pgfpro's pre chamber..??
Or more a fast burn 'volume' downwind of the plug that gets the fires started asap???

I'll have to read the patents wont I!

[deanznz]

for those with an SAE subscription (not me)

Direct Water Injection Strategies for Performance Improvement of a Turbocharged Spark-Ignition Engine at High Load Operation

Author(s): Davide Lanni, Enzo Galloni

sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2022-37-0007/preview/



they also have a book

New Fuels and Advanced Combustion Modes for Innovative Internal Combustion Engines

amazon.com/Advanced-Combustion-Innovative-Internal-Engines/dp/3725832099

.

[Logic]

I know I'm bit behind if you are moving on to GCI pgfpro but perhaps a 'spark plug' (modded) that never sparks, but does do Corona discharge (constant 600 volts by the look of it) into the pre chamber.
Increases flame speed by a touch of fuel reformation, decomposing the fuel into lighter fractions and a tad of H2.
(Probably some 03 and other fast burn radicals too)

A Corona Spark Plug System for Spark-Ignition Engines
A new spark plug design in which the spark discharge is preceded by a corona wind is studied. The plug electrodes are designed so as to produce a corona wind whenever a high voltage (but lower than the breakdown voltage) is applied. The corona wind carries the ignited mixture away from both electrodes in order to reduce heat loss from the ignited mixture by heat transfer to the electrodes. The new system facilitates the ignition of lean mixtures, and provides an efficient means for increasing ignition efficiency, improving cyclic variation and reducing HC emission. High speed photographs of the ignition process of the new system in a constant volume bomb have shown that the ignited mixture is carried out from the electrode gap at a speed of 5 m/s; a speed which has been found to be optimal in other studies.

BSFC: stock: 1180 g/kw.h
BSFC: with corona discharge: 674 g/kw.h

HC emission: form 162 to 123.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...0is%20applied.

Related research that fills in some gaps and ads some ideas..!

[Logic]

Originally Posted by deanznz

for those with an SAE subscription (not me)

Direct Water Injection Strategies for Performance Improvement of a Turbocharged Spark-Ignition Engine at High Load Operation

Author(s): Davide Lanni, Enzo Galloni

sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2022-37-0007/preview/



they also have a book

New Fuels and Advanced Combustion Modes for Innovative Internal Combustion Engines

amazon.com/Advanced-Combustion-Innovative-Internal-Engines/dp/3725832099

.

Water injection increases the compression ratio one can use by dramatically cooling the charge deanznz.

That works when you want power (and efficiency) at more normal AF ratios, but pgfpro is already having a hard time getting his crazy lean mixture to burn and is already adding heat.
Water also slows the combustion rate, requiring yet more timing advance.

Once he gets to the drag strip; well that's a different story!
There he might enable his water injectors for even better times, while blasting any carbon deposits right out the exhaust at the same time!

[deanznz]

Last year I looked into the health benefits of breathing hydrogen, and I kept bumping into Stan Myers stuff, and I came across someone ( Daniel Donatelli ) who has spent 20 years figuring out what Stan figured out.

Another guy was Bob Boyce, he raced a jet ski with hydrogen made on demand, one day his jet ski went a lot better than usual at a certain rpm, to the point that he removed the engine and set it up on a dyno to figure out why. It turned out the regulator on the alternator had failed and AC was getting into the Electrolyser/cell and helping split the H and O apart more efficiently. He ended up making a circuit that does it on purpose.

From memory, which ain't that good, there are various ways of getting the hydrogen out of water, the most common on youtube is what some call the brute force method, chewing through lots of amps to get the job done. Another way is to setup up what an electrical engineer might call run away circuit oscillation, but when used wisely the oscillation run through coils can produce 1000 times the input voltage returned in back EMF. I think Stan figured out quite a few ways to achieve it, to the point where if electrons are pulled out of water, then the bond between the H and O fall apart, and if done correctly, the H and O stay in suspension. Daniel Donatelli calls it is Nano Bubble Water Fuel, and although it looks like water, it can be burnt, and I think this is what Stan used. There is so much good and bad information about Stan out there it's hard to know where to start, but if anyone can be bothered I'd say, if you can read German try this

slideshare.net/choicethailand

otherwise join this patreon site and ask the guy directly

patreon.com/securesupplies

edit. I have no idea if the above is true or not, that's for the individual to decide :-)