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Old 06-06-2025, 06:20 AM   #601 (permalink)
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Interesting!
Very different to Geet stuff and similar to pgfpro
It holds hope for a Ford 1600 crossflow block with a Lotus head and 2 twin choke side-draughts!
Hmmm.... If I sell a kidney...

What Ever Happened To Smokey's Hot-Vapor Engine?

Smokey Yunick’s Hot Vapor Fiero; 51 mpg and 0-60 in less than 6 Seconds!
WithVIDEO!

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Old 06-06-2025, 08:52 PM   #602 (permalink)
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On pre chamber cooling: (in-case you missed it in post # 600?)

As I understand things you are already injecting fuel during valve overlap, pre TDC to get a rich mixture into the prechamber while the piston is moving very slowly.
You also have a water injection system fitted IIRC.
Is it perhaps possible to add a tiny squirt of water during this pre chamber filling stage, then cut it off for the main intake stroke?
That may just be enough to prevent pre-chamber pre-ignition and perhaps even work well with the copper? to add a bit of Hydrogen.

The only other option,is sub ambient cooling of the chamber using the aircon or evaporative cooling and complex 3D metal printing of a pre chamber with cooling channels, plus a ceramic coating on the nozzle and threads

That tiny squirt of water might be cooled sub ambient as above.
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Old 06-07-2025, 10:03 AM   #603 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic View Post
On pre chamber cooling: (in-case you missed it in post # 600?)

As I understand things you are already injecting fuel during valve overlap, pre TDC to get a rich mixture into the prechamber while the piston is moving very slowly.
You also have a water injection system fitted IIRC.
Is it perhaps possible to add a tiny squirt of water during this pre chamber filling stage, then cut it off for the main intake stroke?
That may just be enough to prevent pre-chamber pre-ignition and perhaps even work well with the copper? to add a bit of Hydrogen.

The only other option,is sub ambient cooling of the chamber using the aircon or evaporative cooling and complex 3D metal printing of a pre chamber with cooling channels, plus a ceramic coating on the nozzle and threads

That tiny squirt of water might be cooled sub ambient as above.
Great stuff again Logic. Thank you.

I'm sure both of your ideas here would work. When I go into max performance mode 700WHP I run my GEM fuel. This is where some more magic happens from my last tests by adding some water to the GEM fuel. Still a work in progress but it lets me add 2 more degrees of ignition advance. The gasoline and ethanol mix acts like a co-solvent to keep the mix as one.
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Old 06-07-2025, 10:05 AM   #604 (permalink)
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Please everyone that's interested in this post go check out Logics recent post here. Great info.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ine-41804.html
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Old 06-08-2025, 01:31 AM   #605 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic View Post
That tiny squirt of water might be cooled sub ambient as above.
Sure cooling the water prior to injecting it might render some benefit, but would it offset the energy eventually spent in order to provide such cooling? And the weight of the cooling setup too.
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Old 06-08-2025, 01:44 AM   #606 (permalink)
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Cryogenic fuels are hot right now.
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Old 06-08-2025, 02:06 AM   #607 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Cryogenic fuels are hot right now.
The only one I'm aware of, and which already has some large-scale commercial applications, is liquified natural gas (LNG), yet any natural gas-powered truck I have ever seen relied on good old compressed natural gas (CNG), which doesn't require cryogenics to be stored.
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Old 06-08-2025, 04:11 AM   #608 (permalink)
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It was a joke. ...

knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-is-so-hot-right-now

Cryogenic means below a certain temperature. Methane for instance becomes a liquid [rocket fuel]. Cryogenic water would be ice.
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Old 06-08-2025, 08:22 PM   #609 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Sure cooling the water prior to injecting it might render some benefit, but would it offset the energy eventually spent in order to provide such cooling? And the weight of the cooling setup too.
David Vizard tends to ..er.. 'carry on' and lose the plot a bit now that he's older but a good video on water injection none-the-less:


From what I have read; evaporative cooling does not care what temperature the water is at:
If you add almost boiling water to a swamp cooler, it cools the air just as effectively as ice water but uses way more water.
"Physics..?!"

NB that boiling point increases with pressure, so not much of that going on during the compression stroke.
Then there's the pressure of combustion... so steam likely only forms after the main combustion event, when pressure drops enough.
(And when the crank-conrod is at a better angle for producing torque..!)

In Short:
Evaporative cooling is the greater effect by far vs plain old conductive cooling. IMHO.

Cool water means less air/oxygen space-taking evaporation during the intake stroke so that it happens/cools more during compression when the gas volume is trapped.
There may be a maximum threshold or optimum temperature for that..?
But it's not used in std water injection systems like that used on the BMW M4 GTS.

(Also NB the Steam Reformation Reaction:
HC+H2O=H2+CO (CO also burns but weakly/slowly)
This reaction, used in the industrial production of Hydrogen. is likely to occur at the higher pressures and temperatures at the end of compression and during combustion.
Pity it has so little time, but I wouldn't be surprised to find a slightly increased H2 concentration just before and during the combustion stroke.
Catalysts help. )

With a pre chamber we are interested in cooling the much richer, closer to stock AF ratio charge in the pre chamber only.
Not the super lean, needs lots of pre heating/temperature just to catch fire mixture in the main chamber.

The rich mixture in the chamber is due to the fact that the piston is moving very slowly at/around TDC.
Only ~4mm for 40 degrees, including a very brief dead stop at TDC.
ie; As the same amount of fuel is being inject at this slow air intake point in the stroke the mixture is much richer during this pre-chamber filling time.
So a small quick squirt of (cooled?) water at this point will cool the pre chamber charge during compression avoiding the ...er... 'pre-knock' plaguing pgfpro. Hopefully!

Easy for him to try... if the water injector is (aimed) in the right place in the intake tract..?

Last edited by Logic; 06-08-2025 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 06-09-2025, 02:15 AM   #610 (permalink)
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pgfpro are you still using a Link ECU for all your engines shenanigans

new information to me.....

Toyota in regards to squish, moved away from flat top piston to head, squish, now they angle it up about 5 degrees so the squish "jet" is aimed at the spark plug for a faster burn speed, better emissions, more HP etc.

I got that from

Understanding Burn Speeds & Engine Combustion:


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