My 1991 Talon TSi Compound Turbo AWD

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Great stuff again Logic. Thank you.

I'm sure both of your ideas here would work. When I go into max performance mode 700WHP I run my GEM fuel. This is where some more magic happens from my last tests by adding some water to the GEM fuel. Still a work in progress but it lets me add 2 more degrees of ignition advance. The gasoline and ethanol mix acts like a co-solvent to keep the mix as one.

Interesting stuff pgfpro!
Let's hope aerohead doesn't see this: He tends to jump on his soap box and start preaching when HCs and water are mixed!

Everyone:

NB that pgfpro is not talking lean burn here. That's a completely different ECU mapping used for getting to the track at 50+ mpg, IIRC.

Gasoline is soluble in Ethanol but not in Methanol.
A mix of Meth and gas is a mess.

But Methanol is soluble in Ehanol so you get a homogeneous solution with the high/er latent heat of vaporization (cooling effect) that Methanol has, but without needing bigger injectors etc.
That's GEM

Now water is soluble in both Methanol and Ethanol so if you add that to the above mix it seems it stays homogeneous, but with extra latent heat of vaporization.
(and possibly some steam reformation = hydrogen during the compression and power strokes)

It also means that you can likely add a bit of water to E85 without needing an extra water injector to do this. How much I don't know.,?
That's easy DIY testing for those that want to 'Turn up the boost!'

pgfpro:
Do you start with E85 and add Methanol at 250 ml per liter?
Or a different ratio?
Water ratio??

Then have you tried adding a spot of your paint thinner or acetone to that witches brew!?
IIRC most 'witches' add 2.5+% to improve vaporization.

Also NB that Boric Acid is soluble in ethanol, water and methanol and has this effect in an Audi A5.)
For water: 57 g/L at 25°C. Better for Ethanol.)

(For those that run screaming at the mere mention of the word 'Acid' NB that orange juice is an acid. It's a weak acid, same as Boric acid, but nowhere near as effective a lubricant! )

[pgfpro]

pgfpro are you still using a Link ECU for all your engines shenanigans

Yes still running ECM link Also running my Haltech as a secondary data log system. Although its been acting up so now I'm going to be running a AEM for data log only.

Burn speed is a major factor while running lean burn do to its inherit slow flame speed once you get past a 16:1 A/F ratio.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Interesting stuff pgfpro!
Let's hope aerohead doesn't see this: He tends to jump on his soap box and start preaching when HCs and water are mixed!

Everyone:

NB that pgfpro is not talking lean burn here. That's a completely different ECU mapping used for getting to the track at 50+ mpg, IIRC.

Gasoline is soluble in Ethanol but not in Methanol.
A mix of Meth and gas is a mess.

But Methanol is soluble in Ehanol so you get a homogeneous solution with the high/er latent heat of vaporization (cooling effect) that Methanol has, but without needing bigger injectors etc.
That's GEM

Now water is soluble in both Methanol and Ethanol so if you add that to the above mix it seems it stays homogeneous, but with extra latent heat of vaporization.
(and possibly some steam reformation = hydrogen during the compression and power strokes)

It also means that you can likely add a bit of water to E85 without needing an extra water injector to do this. How much I don't know.,?
That's easy DIY testing for those that want to 'Turn up the boost!'

pgfpro:
Do you start with E85 and add Methanol at 250 ml per liter?
Or a different ratio?
Water ratio??

Then have you tried adding a spot of your paint thinner or acetone to that witches brew!?
IIRC most 'witches' add 2.5+% to improve vaporization.

Also NB that Boric Acid is soluble in ethanol, water and methanol and has this effect in an Audi A5.)
For water: 57 g/L at 25°C. Better for Ethanol.)

(For those that run screaming at the mere mention of the word 'Acid' NB that orange juice is an acid. It's a weak acid, same as Boric acid, but nowhere near as effective a lubricant! )

Thanks again Logic for some great clarification.

I run a few different mix ratios. One I use the most is
38.1% Gasoline
21.9% Ethanol
40% Methanol
by volume.
The one I've been testing with different solvents is just replacing the gasoline amount with paint solvent.

The water ratio's I've been messing with so far are around 3% for the whole GEM mix. I need way more testing to be done on this though.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

Thanks again Logic for some great clarification.

I run a few different mix ratios. One I use the most is
38.1% Gasoline
21.9% Ethanol
40% Methanol
by volume.
The one I've been testing with different solvents is just replacing the gasoline amount with paint solvent.

The water ratio's I've been messing with so far are around 3% for the whole GEM mix. I need way more testing to be done on this though.

Thx pgfpro.

On the added water:

1. Did you try water due to 'something I said'?
2. Copper and/or zinc are used as catalysts in steam reformation.
   As the water is in the fuel, perhaps your fuel pre heater might be slightly 'improved' by filling it with Zinc powder..? (before a filter)

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Thx pgfpro.

On the added water:

1. Did you try water due to 'something I said'?
2. Copper and/or zinc are used as catalysts in steam reformation.
   As the water is in the fuel, perhaps your fuel pre heater might be slightly 'improved' by filling it with Zinc powder..? (before a filter)

Yes sir I did take your "add water" idea and put it in action

I'll look into your pre-heater idea also since everything you have provided has worked.

[Logic]

Deleted: Something wrong with the forum? 1st half of post not showing and ignoring of HTML!?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

The water ratio's I've been messing with so far are around 3% for the whole GEM mix. I need way more testing to be done on this though.

Not sure if the expensive pharmaceutical-grade grain alcohol I bought some time ago has no water content at all, but it's somewhat of a PITA to remove all the water from ethanol. I guess you're not considering any residual water content of the ethanol while running 3% water for the whole GEM mix.