My 1991 Talon TSi Compound Turbo AWD

[Logic]

Performance and exhaust gas emission of gasoline engine fueled by gasoline, acetone and wet methanol blends

... The results of the testing, there was a 12.62% increase in brake power.
Brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) has increased by 4.35% compared to P100...

The resulting CO and HC emissions have decreased. The decrease in CO emissions reached 87.5%... [That's a more complete burn]

Moisture Content (% v) 24.88... [of methanol]

The highest increase occurred in the PA30M15mixture [30% Acetone, 15% Wet Methanol]

There's no Ethanol in that mix (to get everything to mix) but that's a LOT of water!?

IMHO it's the high Latent Heat of Evaporation more than the high Specific Heat Capacity of water, cooling everything down that enabled your 2 deg of timing advance.
BUT it may go further than that:
While there is evaporation there is no boiling of the water as boiling point increases with pressure.
So ~none during compression or the main combustion event at ~20 deg ATDC, but likely after when pressures drop enough. That's steam when the crank is at a better angle to produce torque..!?

I also just cant discount Steam Reformation which is the industrial production of Hydrogen from HCs and Steam at much lower pressures and temperatures than those during your compression-combustion..?!


(Similar to your Talon pgfpro, but I doubt he was "FasterThanYou'!? )
https://ftyracing.com/topics/projects/rwd-talon/

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by Logic

Performance and exhaust gas emission of gasoline engine fueled by gasoline, acetone and wet methanol blends

... The results of the testing, there was a 12.62% increase in brake power.
Brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) has increased by 4.35% compared to P100...

The resulting CO and HC emissions have decreased. The decrease in CO emissions reached 87.5%... [That's a more complete burn]

Moisture Content (% v) 24.88... [of methanol]

The highest increase occurred in the PA30M15mixture [30% Acetone, 15% Wet Methanol]

There's no Ethanol in that mix (to get everything to mix) but that's a LOT of water!?

IMHO it's the high Latent Heat of Evaporation more than the high Specific Heat Capacity of water, cooling everything down that enabled your 2 deg of timing advance.
BUT it may go further than that:
While there is evaporation there is no boiling of the water as boiling point increases with pressure.
So ~none during compression or the main combustion event at ~20 deg ATDC, but likely after when pressures drop enough. That's steam when the crank is at a better angle to produce torque..!?

I also just cant discount Steam Reformation which is the industrial production of Hydrogen from HCs and Steam at much lower pressures and temperatures than those during your compression-combustion..?!


(Similar to your Talon pgfpro, but I doubt he was "FasterThanYou'!? )
https://ftyracing.com/topics/projects/rwd-talon/

Once again great find. Thank you. It definitely falls into kind of what I found by accident with my waste solvent methanol mix.

[Logic]

I think I've posted about this before but 'it' came back!
Detailed Investigation into the Effect of Ozone Addition on Spark Assisted Compression Ignition Engine Performance and Emissions Characteristics

The impact of 50 ppm intake seeding of ozone (O3) on performance and emissions characteristics was explored in a single-cylinder research engine operated under lean spark assisted compression ignition (SACI) conditions.
Optical access into the engine enabled complementary crank angle resolved measurements of in-cylinder O3 concentration via ultraviolet (UV) light absorption.
Experiments were performed at moderate loads (4 - 5 bar indicated mean effective pressure) and low-to-moderate engine speeds (800 - 1400 revolutions per minute).
Each operating condition featured a single early main injection and maximum brake torque spark timing.
Intake pressure was fixed at 1.0 bar, while intake temperatures were varied between 42 - 80 °C.
Moderate amounts of internal residuals (12 - 20%) were retained through the use of positive valve overlap.
Ozone addition was found to stabilize combustion relative to similar conditions without O3 addition by promoting end gas auto-ignition. Ozone addition was most beneficial for the lowest engine speeds due to the longer available time per cycle for chemically controlled cool flame behavior to occur.
Moreover, the homogeneous mixtures and low flame temperatures led to specific NOx emissions of less than 1 g/kg-fuel.
From complementary measurements of in-cylinder O3 decomposition acquired via UV light absorption, rapid decomposition of O3 into molecular and atomic oxygen coincided with the onset of low-temperature heat release (LTHR).
For a given intake temperature and engine speed, the appearance of LTHR was relatively invariant to spark timing and instead was more sensitive to the time at which O3 decomposition occurred.
End gas temperatures at the onset of high-temperature heat release were between 840 and 900 K, which are roughly 200 K cooler than those found in previous studies where intake heating or extensive retained residuals were used to pre-heat the charge.
These results demonstrate that O3 addition increased the charge reactivity of gasoline, and thereby enabled SACI operation for a broader range of conditions.

I'm guessing "Lean Spark Assisted Compression Ignition (SACI)" Is kinda: The straw that breaks the camels back: It provides the last bit of a compression jolt for instantaneous compression ignition form there on, and gives some control..?
Ideal job for a pre-chamber!

If I'm reading this right the mixture ignites 200K cooler!?
And stays cooler through the main burn!?
Lower ignition temps/pressures are more retrofit/commercializable?

If you can lower NOx (and CO and soot etc) when you don't need much power And go throttle body free; 'This' goes green..! (Grants etc..!)

"Low-Temperature Heat Release": LTHR, pre combustion is then at crank angles counter to power production..?
I don't like that LTHR pre 'main combustion event' when you put your foot down. It's all very well for 'eating and heating' mixture for cruise etc (less boost/compression reqd), but you want heat and compression and one BIG bang all at the right time sometimes!

ECU controlled Ozone is a bit beyond initial tests!
But how might your car idle etc with Ozone instead of NOS?

This as the air intake is easy testing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnCmvxt2jn8

IF! that works:
A gas flowed head's intake port might be ceramic coated/DBD'd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrqBugPPaNo

One might get:

1. Ozone Production.
2. Inertia independent flow, blowing through that initial small gap of a slightly open intake valve.?
3. Some flow control right there by the pre-chamber nozzle by not? going full circle with the DBD..?

[pgfpro]

Good stuff Logic.

I need to do a sniffer test once this gets moving again.

I have started the tear down on the engine and fuel system. I did have a methanol, ethanol issue I need to address, and it won't be too much of an issue to fix. I have a lot of oxidation on the inside of my fuel rail. It was the stock rail that doesn't have any coating to protect against this. On the new rail its coated and alcohol safe so no concerns there. The bore doesn't show any oxidation at all from the methanol, so my home brew is working as far as that goes.

The NOx on this setup should be pretty good at 30:1+ A/F with my cool EGR setup enabled but I need to get some numbers to see what's up there? The downside of the EGR is still a cleaning issue. So, your post looks like it would fix this by not having one?

The valve train is showing some where due to my dumpster-built lifters, but I knew this would be a short-term deal as this is just for testing purposes only as of now.

As far as the GCI set up I have right now "V1" it still has a lot more work needed. I am going to test with a copper Pre-Chamber in the near future.

[freebeard]

Suppose, for sake of argument, where the ionizer would be fitted in a manifold like this?


www.cbperformance.com: 3262 Replacement Manifolds for Dual Solex - Dual Port Type-1

Single barrel carb on a dual port head. Possibly a spacer above or below the manifold?

[Piotrsko]

I would think: the same place it's in on a FI version, but you'll not use those because I am reasonably sure solex didn't do FI

[Logic]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Suppose, for sake of argument, where the ionizer would be fitted in a manifold like this?


www.cbperformance.com: 3262 Replacement Manifolds for Dual Solex - Dual Port Type-1

Single barrel carb on a dual port head. Possibly a spacer above or below the manifold?

Good question!
One I have been thinking on and concluded I need to research more before I can hazard a guess.

If you go with corona discharge to get your Ozone, you also get ionised (either way) air.
That will be attracted to the conductive, neutral intake tract and neutralise.
That may or may not be a good thing; just for a start on contemplating this!

ie: there's a LOT of all sorts of physics and chemistry at play here and the more I think about it; the more research I feel is required! Quite the 'can of worms!'
I wont hazard a guess until I have all my 'ducks in a row'!

Question is: DO you trust my research and deductions..!?

[freebeard]

I think of it more as entertaining possibilities.

[pgfpro]

Very interesting video. As most of you know my engine is using a lot of the F1 Hybrid engine items Pre-Chamber, Turbo etc.

I just found this video very interesting and might try some 2-cycle in my fuel to test to see what if any improvements I can achieve. I know I'm at the point of not pulling to much more energy out of my setup but if a splash of 2 stroke oil could help well, I will at least try it. Logic, I need your help on this one lol

https://youtu.be/PG45SC6OQJo?si=dOaOWjsP5L9yy19b

[Logic]

Damn! I had a nicely formatted etc writeup that all 'disappeared'!
Point is the huge decrease in carbon to CO and CO2
AND
The chemical formulae behind to Hydrogen based chemical 'pre-burn' that happens before ignition.
O + HC = RO2 + RO + OH where:

Equation (5) represents the oxidation of HC by oxygen to form different oxygen radicals, as peroxyl radicals (RO2), alkoxyl radicals (RO) or hydroxyl radicals (OH) [52].
RO2 radicals are formed when oxygen reacts with HC to create a reactive intermediate, which then reacts with more oxygen to produce RO2.
RO radicals are produced when hydrogen atoms from hydrocarbons is abstracted by oxygen, that becomes a RO radical.
OH radicals are produced via a secondary reaction between RO2 and another HC molecule.

Experimental evaluation of the effect of ozone treatment on the oxidation and removal of dry soot deposits of the exhaust gas recirculation system

...ozone atmospheres have been effective in reducing deposit mass at ozone treatment temperatures above 100 °C.
The reduction in mass has reached 78.5% and 91.8% with treatment temperature of 140 °C with ozone concentrations of 30 gO3/m³ and 50 gO3/m³, respectively.
It has also been established that treatment conditions with ozone concentrations of 30 gO3/m³ and 50 gO3/m³ are effective in reducing the thickness of deposits even at intermediate treatment temperatures, resulting in a thickness reduction of 78.6% and 81.1% at 80 °C, respectively.
Additionally, it has been observed that the ozone exposure leads to the increase in the proportion of volatile material within the deposit.

That's looking at a standaone EGR.
But if left over Ozone got into the engine; would there be any need to clean the EGR in the 1st place?
Would one even need an EGR with all that exothermic radical reaction..!??

Now, like HHO, the Ozone production starts from the engine's electrical system which is hugely inefficient. (Or was, pre HEV)
The use of resonant circuits, as used in wireless transmission for eg, should help from there.

The studies on aero drag reduction by DBD show a (sometimes dramatic!) net gain, but that's looking at the boundary layer cancelling, Coanda type flow from DBD, not it's Ozone producing ability.