My Kingdom for a NOx Sensor
Hello -
First a little background. In August I passed my emissions test : http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...-smog-test.jpg My car passed with great numbers for HC and CO pollution (below the average :D !), but the NOx was higher than normal. I did have the HAI (Hot Air Intake) online, so maybe this is an effect of the (mild) lean-burn : http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...sw2-hai-02.jpg I didn't have the ScanGauge online, but I would guess at least 130+ degrees F HAI. I also have an EFIE from Eagle Research (Eagle-Research:) that adds a voltage to the 02 sensor. This will also increase my lean burn and therefore my NOx. Today I was posting in this thread ... what do you think of hydrogen mods (with video) what do you think of hydrogen mods (with video) - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com ... and Lazurus pointed out my ethical dilemma : Quote:
Smart NOx Sensor VDO - Smart NOx Sensor http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...nox-sensor.jpg The good part is that it is obviously designed for a car's harsh environment (it looks just like an oxygen sensor!). The bad part is that it doesn't seem to be for sale (yet), delivers a digital signal (a voltage is all I want), and probably costs an arm and a leg. VDO engineered this sensor with NGK, and here is what they have to offer : (NGK) Sensor Technology NGK Automotive Ceramics U.S.A., Inc. http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...nox-sensor.jpg I like the NGK NOx sensor more because it seems to be offered in a non-smart (voltage only?) version. Question : Does anyone know of NOx sensors for gasoline and/or diesel cars that are in the sub $100 range? URL Appendix ....................................... Here are some other close-but-no-cigar leftover URLs from my googling : New Sensor-Based Diesel Emissions Control System Green Car Congress: New Sensor-Based Diesel Emissions Control System Quote:
MiCS Quote:
High-sensitivity, rapid-response nanotechnology NOx sensor Quote:
Geneva Motor Show: VW Touareg BlueTDI - egmCarTech Quote:
Manufacturers of Emissions Control Technology || Off-Road Diesel Equipment Quote:
Keeping watch on car emissions Quote:
Toyota's DPNR System: how engines, catalysts, fuels make clean-diesel | Diesel Fuel News | Find Articles at BNET Quote:
Cummins seeks better NOx sensor for closed-loop emissions control | Diesel Fuel News | Find Articles at BNET Quote:
NGK EUROPE Quote:
Thick Film Zro2 Nox Sensor for the Measurement of Low Nox Concentration Quote:
CarloSW2 |
Damn, that's a terrific amount of links! I've never even heard of a nox sensor you could buy for your car, but my guess would be that they would be hard to get below 100$.
Ebay? Sales? |
SVOboy -
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CarloSW2 |
Hello -
I'm going to keep using this thread as a dumping ground for info I find (aka notus repositorius) : Integrated Material and Information Technologies for Novel Emission Control Systems http://www.imitec.org/ http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...ec-exhaust.gif Quote:
Development of a High-Sensitivity Rapid-Response NOX Sensor - July 4, 2007 Development of a High-Sensitivity Rapid-Response NOx Sensor http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...ensor-chip.jpg Quote:
ZFAS®-N2(NOx Sensor (under development)) NGK SPARK PLUG CO., LTD. | ZFAS®-N2(NOx Sensor (under development)) http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...nox-sensor.jpg Quote:
CarloSW2 |
any lean burn motor make too much nox. ford tried to put a 30 to 1 lean burn in their taurus. they could not get the nox even close. the way they do nox is to cool the burn so the nitrogen in the air is heated less. for mpg and power a hot burn is needed. hydrogen can be used to fire a very lean mix. and that's a lean burn motor. water injection would cool the burn but would not met fed rules. and messing it up or down makes the engine check. light come on .in the latest op (whatever) 2 engine management.
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DAN -
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CarloSW2 |
this sounds like a wise idea to me. i like itand i'll stay tuned.
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Please don't tell me you're using an EFIE on a narrowband sensor.
If you want to go lean, get a wideband with an analog 0-5v output. If you're trying to reduce NOX, go with water injection. AFAIK, it's 50 state legal. I use it on two of my vehicles for performance reasons, but it's function is the same, to keep combustion temperatures down. I'm pushing 19 PSI on a 9.25:1 motor with 87 octane fuel. I'd say it works. Pick up a shurflo agricultural pump, a brass M1 nozzle from McMaster Carr and the rest you should be able to pick up locally. I'm using an M5 on my Saab, but it only runs under tire shredding power levels. |
JohnnyGrey -
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http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...efie-1308.html Even with it off I've already drifted into bad NOx : http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ison-6826.html :( Quote:
CarloSW2 |
I can't chime on this, really... I've seen water injection, but only in use on HP vehicles, only a full throttle/boost, and only when the engine starts knocking. The injection cycle begins as a function of the ECU's inputs, rather than just relying on always on or driver-on.
I think MegaSquirt has a function for it. The reason I actually posted here is because I still wonder about the NOx sensor thing... if anyone's done it, how to do it, and where to get the parts from? |
Christ -
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Nox Sensor replacement instructions 1.6FSI - International Audi A2 Owners' Club Audi A2 1.6 FSI | Car Features | 4car | channel4.com The more I read, it seems there is a NOx sensor controller involved. If that implies what I think, then that's too much for me. I just want an output voltage like a narrow or wideband 02 sensor has (KISS). I found this but haven't found any information on it since their announcement : Innovate & CoorsTek Announce Advanced Oxygen and NOx Sensor Manufacturing Agreement http://www.innovate-tech.com/pdf/PR0...e_CoorsTek.pdf Quote:
BMW, DaimlerChrysler and Volkswagen to Team on BLUETEC for the US — Autoblog Green CarloSW2 |
Hello -
I finally found one, but I can't imagine how much it would cost : ECM - NOx 5210 http://www.ecm-co.com/img/products/5210_lrg.jpg Quote:
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I Have one Smart NOX sensor from VDOsiemens from a Scania. does anyone knows how you can use it? i dont find any information about that, its 4 pin probably CANH, CANL, Ground, Supply.
Regards Kristoffer |
Kristoffer -
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However, it is a BIG assumption that the NOx sensor will operate in such a simple way. Here's more info on CAN : Automotive CAN Network Diagnostics CarloSW2 |
operates on the BUS / network
....The Smart NOx Sensor is an electromechanical sensor with a custom-integrated circuit and microprocessor controls.
It communicates with the vehicle control bus to enable optimum adjustment of key engine parameters, such as exhaust gas recirculation, air/fuel ratio and after-treatment injection to reduce nitric oxide emissions..... these guys selling this Smart Nox sensor claim to be the only ones that have such a thing in production and being used Continental Smart NOx Sensor Named 2010 Automotive News PACE Award Finalist -- AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Nov. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- instructions for connecting http://www.drivven.com/visitor_downl...or_UM_RevA.pdf |
Looks like your readings are well within acceptable limits for NOX, while the other readings are extremely low compared to averages.
This is the same reason the Honda VX had to be configured differently for California emissions regulations. It seems a shame that when weighed in total a functioning lean burn system falls above the California regs (for the VX) when the CO and HC figures are significantly lower. Personally I would not worry about it since the total emissions of all 3 compounds is probably lower than a brand new, unmodified vehicle, not a 12 year old car. Elevated NOX levels will be addressed with high pressure direct injection and heavy amounts of cooled EGR, either of which in your case might not work well as far as how well the engine runs, stumbling or misfires, which would drive the tailpipe emissions through the roof. regards Mech |
Old Mech -
Thanks. Since that 2007 test my NOx has gotten a lot worse. I barely past my last tset: 2007 http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...d-clean-my.jpg 2009 http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...ot-looking.jpg I am sure I will be out of compliance on my 2011 smog test (two different smog test facilities chose different gears for the test) : http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...aking-into.jpg I have since done an ignition-wire refresh, a new EGR, and new spark plugs. I have been planning to do an unofficial smog test to see where I am, but I have been too lazy. But the original purpose of this thread was to be able to track my NOx for the purpose of making sure any non-OEM engine mods I do will not hurt my emissions. For instance, I had an EFIE, and I wanted to see what it was doing to my emissions. The EFIE has long since been disabled because I can't prove to myself that my emissions are good or bad. CarloSW2 |
Today i did some research on my job in our Scania workshop manual and it says that pin 1,4 is supply and 2,3 is CAN but it didn´t say which was which. tomorrow i probably going to look in the circuit diagram and found out which is which, but even if i know that i must communicate through a CANbus interface. i found one on this page lawicel-shop. se/shop/ search for LAWICEL CANUSB Adapter. But then you going to need software to understand the data from the nox sensor, probably you need to make an own program for this...
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grillbritt -
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CarloSW2 |
Check to see if your EGR passageways are clogged.
regards Mech |
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