NEED help on paul/sabrina controller not working
 

so i cant find out what the issue is with my controller ( i bought it as a kit) it first went bad when my dc-dc blew and it blew the the output side of the optocoupler U9, which provides a 12 VDC gate drive for the contactor MOSFET Q1, but i dont use this so i figured it still worked after i tested it the motor up in neutral!! i put it all back together, make sure the lights are both solid. ( they still are) but as my freind was dischrging the capacitor bank with the resistor when we were romoving it, he accidentally touched the +/- side for the battery input of the controller and made a nasty blue spark. i didnt think it would ruin anything but sure enough. i reconnect the controller and it doesnt work again. although both lights are solid. so im now removing it once again to check for any other fried components? help lol i need to get the car on the road and am willing to pay for valuable help! :p
i cant post pictures because it says i have to make 5 posts but i have the control board and power section apart i checked gr1-gr10 and ph1/ph2 for 12v when throttle was on but it was zero.(last time the controller was put together)

Let's work backwards until we find the problem... With no power connected to the bus bars at all, turn on the 12v power to the control board. Measure voltage across R16 when there's zero throttle and slowly increase throttle. What happens? It should start at 12v, and then go down to zero volts briefly, and then back to 12v, and one of the LEDs should blink fast.

Next, CAREFULLY measure the voltage from Pin 2 to pin 3 of U6 while throttle starts at zero, and increases.

Next start at zero throttle, and gradually increase throttle while measuring voltage across R12. What happens?

the controller is aprt not so gr1-10 and ph1-2 and desoldered. now the yellow light is blinking should i still test it?

You can still test it without PH1 and PH2 and the gate resistors. Just make sure the current sensor is connected, and the throttle, and that there are no weird settings programmed. haha.

never mind the light stopped, my battery voltage is about 10.5 ( just a scrap battery) and r16 an zero was only 7.45 and at about 80% throttle only went to 7.11v

now i put a charger on the 12v battery just incase and the voltage stays at 6.98 around there only once while feathering the throttle did i get it to go to zero

oh aha and by the way how do i count the pin numbers i know where u6 is but i dont know which ones are pin 2/3

thanks for helping!!

Here's a good example. There will either be a notch at the top, or a dot at pin 1, or some other weird way. haha.

http://cdselectronics.com/Components/CHIP/ic_legs1.jpg

thank you sir! im off to record data!

u6 goes from .01 to .06 vdc 0-100% throttle :/

r12 goes from zero to about 4.5v

pretty intense heat coming from dc-dc!!

At least the pwm signal is coming out of the microcontroller. Do you mean the CINCON is getting really hot?

Now check each side of R15 to ground (use the back of U1 for ground. It's nice and easy to access).

-Paul

yes the cincon is i would go asfar to say as unusually hot! like very uncomfortable to keep a finger on it! and ok thats a good start :) r15 to back of u1 is 4.96/4.97 on the other side at 0% throttle. at 90% throttle 4.9/0.28v on the other side

I don't know if you realize it, but you are sort of hilarious! "yes the cincon is i would go asfar to say as unusually hot!" lol. Is it putting out 12v? (the cincon)

haha i try and keep it lively :p, so it was confusing to get the output but the only voltage i could get was on one side of the output for 3.5v (10.9 in) did the cincon fail me :(

since theres 2 rows of 2 on input side, and 2rows of 3 on the output i just had trouble but im pretty sure the only voltage i couldve got was about 3.4-3.6

aha! OK, the 2 rows of 3 on the output, right! One of the rows of 3 pins aren't connected to anything. The other row of 3 pins is where all the output stuff is. The pin closest to the edge is +12v out. The middle pin doesn't do anything, and the pin closest to middle is ground.

-------------------
|...............o o o...| <-- PIN CLOSEST TO THIS WRITING is +12v.
|.........................|
|...............o o o...|
-------------------

those retarded dots are required for some reason. haha

you sir are outmost helpful and kind! thank you!

So, if you are seeing around 3v out, that is a major problem. The 12v low voltage lockout would be happening, which would stop the pwm from making it out to the motor. There could be a solder bridge, or the cincon could have just failed for some reason. I'd check for solder bridges, when solder crosses over the isolation gap and touches what it shouldn't touch. If you have a solder sucker, you could suck the solder out of the output holes, and then give it power to see if you can get 12v out of it.

yep 3.49 about 10-11v in. so ill do my best to carefully remove the solder, and retest. if it stays around that voltage start with replacing the cincon?

just got the price its 16$ ouch, but still very cheap!!

Yep, $16. But they NEVER break... haha, so it's worth it. But seriously I think there was something causing it to fail. They really are reliable. Maybe the output got shorted with the power on somehow.

yea mouser i know is a good company, is it possible to remove it from the board and test it seperately to make sure its bad

I use a solder sucker:
Brand New Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Solder Removal Tool Tools Bule | eBay

They work OK. Basically, you try to heat the pad with the solder sucker right over it at the same time. It's got a weird white material on it that doesn't melt from the soldering iron. Then when it's liquid, you push the button, and the solder gets sucked out. it's sort of an annoying process.

i see seems handy! but i dont have time to wait for this fix, i guess ill remove it (or try atleast) and test it with 12v and see what happens

solder sucker worked better than i thought it would... so i desoldered the output of the cincon no luck voltage is still at 3.53 so im going to try and remove it from the board, and maybe try it again when seperated.

BIG find!! as i was trying to remoce the cincon, i noticed that the capacitor on the motor side connection at the very corner has one side loose! you could even wiggle the one pin in and out. is there any test to make sure a capacitor has failed? also do you have any tips for removing the cincon, i got asmuch solder out as i could and the holes seemmostly empty from what i can tell, but it still is tight in there. i was thinking since i was doing it witht he board upside down is there a chance that the solder melted deeper into the hole?

Paul: What I do is grab a leg with needle nose pliers after the solder has been sucked out, and wiggle the leg around to try to break it free from the last tiny bit.

Sven: So, as I was saying... I wiggle the leg around. LOL.

One way to see if the capacitor is bad is to just attach it to 12v, and then remove the 12v. If it keeps the voltage (the voltage will fall slowly), then it's probably good.

ok i removed the cap and it records to be going down from 11.72 about 0.01V every couple seconds or so. im assuming this slow voltage loss is normal. i placed an order for a cincon but this one still wont budge! all the legs are flush wit the board, i tried holding the solder on holes while pulling it but no luck.

Hmm, if you have 2 or 3 irons, maybe you could add mroe solder to the holes, and then hold each iron over 2 holes each at the same time (all on one side) so that you could pull out one side, and then do the same to the other side, and sort of walk it out.

i dont have any more :( im trying to see if a local electronic store can maybe remove it for me :p

ok so just an update on the fix, the guy had a lot of trouble removing the cincon ( the new one arrived just yesterday) but he says he will have it removed tomorrow most likely. so it got me thinking is there anything else I can do other than soldering it in right away, or should I install it and test the voltages again?

Also I would like to thank everyone that has contributed on helping me fix my electric car! I promise to upload a lot of photos and videos as soon as I can find some free time! :)

I know what you mean. It would suck to put it in, adn have the same problem... Maybe you could put the OLD dc-dc on a breadboard, and then put 12v on the input side, and see if it's working. If it's still not working, then maybe assume that it's the problem.

sildered in the new cincon but I cant get an output reading, both lights on. I soldered r1-10..ect and tried to run the motor but no luck :(.

I noticed r6 wasn't soldered propery, after fixing it and checking all others I power it up to be accompanied by a massive electric explosion under the hood :$...great. here are some pics.. any suggestions please im getting pretty despirate right now for a working controller

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ontroller1.jpg

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ontroller2.jpg

Where are you located in Ontario?
I'm in Columbus, Ohio and I can check over your controller and let you know what is wrong with it.
If you want to send it, pm me for my address and details.

im just afraid shipping will kill me back and forth. I think im just going to remove the new cincon dc-dc I bought and maybe try and remove the microprocessor( any suggestions :0) and just buy a whole new control board along with most of the components... and one diode for the power board I guess, just waiting on a response for the control board

I saw in another forum that you are in London, Ont.
I suspect shipping would run about $20 each way if you use ground.
It would probably be about 2 days transit, but I don't know about customs holding time.
You could check FedEx/UPS and see what they have to say about transit times.
Tell them that you are shipping it to a commercial address Columbus, Ohio 43215 for warranty repair.
It's about a 5 hour drive...I have relatives scattered between Sarnia and London so have driven it many times.

But, fixing it there yourself is certainly more self satisfying.

If your micro-controller is soldered in, I would cut the legs at the body and then de-solder the remaining legs.
The PS boards soak up a lot of heat, so practice and a powerful temperature controlled soldering station are helpful.
I use a Weller temp controlled soldering station for most work, but also have this very old Western Electric soldering iron that is massive.
I call it "the persuader"...