Need help picking out a car when I move overseas
 

Hey folks, I'm relocating from the US to New Zealand later this year. I'm strongly considering taking my Insight with me, but there may be some... ahem, regulatory hurdles, given that it is left hand drive, and has a fire-breathing 2.4L engine under the hood. It's still more efficient than all but a handful of gasoline vehicles out there. In NZ's mild weather and low speed roads, I'd expect ~50mpg to be realistic.

As a kind of mid-life crisis change, I was considering a Miata, but fuel efficiency is a major concern. I'm pretty inspired by MetroMPG's thread, seeing him able to squeeze out 50mpg+, while also having a convertible (which I miss) and a car that can get sideways or slide around in a parking lot should I choose to burn some fuel irresponsibly. A 2002 Miata in the 'states is rated for an abysmal 23 city / 28 highway. They're geared a bit taller over there. You can also find the later cars with the older 1.6 engine, while they only came with a 1.8 in the 'states.

I'm going to absolutely butcher and mix up units and currencies in an attempt at equivalency, so bear with me. Also assume that my income would be similar in absolute terms both here and there.

The conversion rate is around 1.5 NZD for every 1.0 USD. Current fuel prices are ~$8 US per gallon, or $11.70 NZD per gallon, or $3.10 NZD per liter.

Nissan Leaf - 0.19kWh / km, 0.20NZD per kwh, 0.038 NZD per km
Mazda Miata - at 30mpg (?) 7.8L/100km - $3.10/L - $24.18/100km - 0.242 NZD per km.

At 12k km / year (average for someone there):
Nissan Leaf - $456/year NZD
30mpg Miata - $2901/year
27mpg Miata (2002) - $3107/year
36mpg Miata (2016) - $2417/year
50mpg 250HP Insight - $1740/year

The cost of fueling a Miata may be around 6-7x higher than a Leaf. The cost of fueling the Insight would still be around 4x higher.

Something like a Honda Fit (~45mpg) goes for about $1500-3000 NZD.
My Insight, sold in the states, could likely net me ~$21,000 NZD. That buys a lot of fuel.
Miatas start around $9000 NZD for one in reasonable condition.
A Nissan Leaf could be anywhere from $9000-$20,000 NZD depending on age and miles. I'm wary of an older one due to battery degradation.

Given how expensive fuel is there, and how cheap electricity is, I'm thinking I'd be daft to try to own a gasoline car. My Insight would be less bad. I feel that if there were an electric rear wheel drive convertible at a similar price point, it would be a no-brainer. On the other hand, the quality of life argument for a Miata is compelling - when I had my Del Sol, I drove with the top down nearly every day - but the difference in fuel cost basically buys a used Leaf every 4 years. I could always drop a Honda engine in the Miata and tune it for lean burn, and get an honest 50mpg at a cost of maybe $10,000 NZD plus the car, and have some tire shredding on tap.

I know these are not apples to apples comparisons, but I'm looking for some feedback and outside perspectives.

The Honda Fit looks like a clear winner to me. Or was the price a typo?

No, that's about correct. A pile of dirt of equal mass would likely be more expensive. Granted, it would be an automatic at ~$1500. Manuals with low odometers look to start around $3000 NZD. I'm not sure how I'd feel about driving an automatic though.

EDIT: An additional possible factor is that something like a Miata has hit the bottom of its depreciation curve, and it ought to retain most of that value as long as it is maintained. It does tie up money. The Fit and Insight, likewise, are not going to depreciate further. I'm unsure of the future of a Leaf, given battery degradation. The $20,000 Leaf will probably become a $9,000 Leaf eventually, whereas the $9,000 one will likely lose its useful value without a battery replacement at some point.

Converted classic? :D
https://www.thesurgery.co.nz/service...e-conversions/

A cheap Fit could just be temporary until you figure out what you want/need.

An interesting idea. $40,000 is a bit more than I was intending to spend. I know I like the Fit, I guess I was just hoping to find the intersection of fun and frugal. It's a shame Miatas aren't more economical.

There's always the option of a Del Sol with a lean burn D15 engine, I suppose.

Looks like in 2013 the Fit got a new hybrid system in other markets that the US never saw. In the Japanese market, it was rated at 85mpg (highest of any car at the time). Their fuel economy figures are famously inflated, however.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3492827170

Not sure what the final bidding will end at, but it's currently at $6300 with 150k km. I might keep my eye out for something like that.

Are there Kei cars in NZ? Cappuccino, Beat, AZ-1?

Now there's a thought.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3496999367

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3507034726

Looks like there are also Kei vans. Lots of options.

According to New Zealand Ttransport Agency, your Insight is eligible for import there, as it's more than 20-years old and its GVWR is below 3.5 tonnes. But you could also consider getting a Kei van, there are even some 4WD ones which are really cool.

I believe there were restrictions that all vehicles imported now need ESC, and must be Right Hand Drive or get an exception. But there's also a category "immigrant vehicles". I'll likely need to email someone for clarification.

Our Leaf is alright. Reliable and cheap as can be but I wouldn't call it fun to drive. It's a brick. I always thought it would be fun to chop the top and strip it out, to actually make it quick-ish. Maybe in five years or so, when the battery is completely toast and it's worthless.

I can only find examples of convertible and pickup truck conversions. How would you propose to do that? Cut the windshield, lay it back, or drop it into the cowl?

There are some exceptions to the import of LHD cars "of special interest" under than 20-years old, but the ESC requirement seems to apply only to new cars. Basically the 20-years rule applied in New Zealand has a similar effect to the 25-years rule enforced in the United States.

I think I'm narrowing in on what I'm going to get, and I'm mildly surprised.

In the US, the ND Miata (2016-present) came standard with a 2.0L engine. In most other markets, the 2.0 was optional, and they came standard with a more frugal 1.5 (with a very revvy character) and tall, tall gearing. As much as I'd love a project car, I'm thinking I just won't have the time or space to work on one.

Better, the 1.5L Miata is rated at up to 48mpg US on the highway, and ~40mpg combined.

Certainly the cost difference between it and a much older car buys a lot of fuel. It isn't the lowest cost of ownership choice. However, it checks all of the boxes, and I can probably find one with only ~30k km for well south of $20,000 US. I may even come close to breaking even with the Insight sale. I'm also not aware of anyone on here who has one...

It sounds like your planning is paying off.

What are the chances of a lift-off bubble top and rear skirts with skegs?

Bubble top - low chance. If I'm moving somewhere that's 72F year round, I'm leaving the top down and windows open. Saving grace may be that speed limits there are low.

Skirts - depends on if the powers that be will let me get away with it. Apparently they don't care at all about emissions there, but they have very strict standards around safety. Aftermarket suspension, as an example, is outright banned if there are any welds on a cast piece. Change a ball joint to one that isn't OEM or OEM equivalent, and you suddenly have a "low volume vehicle" that needs to be certified - theoretically. I bet there's a lot that flies under the radar, but I'm guessing skirts will not. So maybe a $10 coroplast skirt will have a $400 certification appointment. :rolleyes:

I'll explore it further.

I would go electric and never look back. There are a lot of chinese options available in NZ also. The cheapest option for a good BEV with lots of range would probably be to import a RHD car from Japan - like a Kia Niro EV (probably would put you around $50,000 USD). The ones already in NZ are crazy expensive. Same with Australia. But gas cars are so expensive and losing value so fast it's not worth it - even in the US. Even more so in NZ.

Still gotta wonder how you get a job and relocation to NZ?

I would look at the electric fuel and tax structures in NZ and also consider, it’s a small place, will you need to drive more or less?

If you don’t need to drive far might be worth seeing what the lowest cost home grown options are most compatible with taxes and TCO?

Maybe a Subaru 360 is a thing there, 50+ mpg room room putt putt

Maybe IMIEV, LUPO 3l or the Daihatsu Charade diesel are locally available?

Lots of Kei cars and foreign EVs are likely available as well

And yea, bespoke Miata but one has to wonder fuel and tax structures there?

Are they anti/pro EV?
Is size, displacement, fuel type a taxable item there?

Might be more to this depending on local tax code and fueling costs.

Bubble top - low chance.

Then a tonneau cover?

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...08-5-46-57.png

I forget what they call this perforated spoiler. Eliminates buffeting in the passenger space.

The most expensive car I've ever purchased, at this point, is $4,000 US. 50 grand is a pretty hard pill to swallow. :(


A quick search suggests there's (in USD) up to a $5750 tax credit for new EVs, and up to $2300 for a used one. It's duty-free to import since there's no local auto industry. Highly polluting vehicles (especially diesels) will have extra taxes placed on them at the time of purchase, of up to $5750.

When it comes to registration, it's ~$70 US for a year for EVs and gasoline vehicles, and ~$120 for diesels.

Car insurance is optional. Liability-only looks to be around $10 US per month, and full coverage for a ~$20,000 US sports car runs around $50 per month. I haven't checked the rates yet on a $50,000 USD EV but I imagine it would be equivalently more expensive for full coverage.

Electricity is ~12 cents (US) per kwh, and gasoline is currently ~$8 US per gallon. At those prices, an $800 Honda Fit would break even with a $50,000 EV, driving a high estimate 12k km per year, in approximately 37 years. A $20,000 sports car would break even with the EV in approximately 23 years - or basically the "expected" lifespan of a vehicle. So, financially, an EV doesn't come close to making sense, unless I can get one in the same price range as a gasoline car. Nissan Leafs under $20,000 all seem to have very tired batteries.

Maybe another suggestion for a lower TCO and the usage on shorter routes could be a scooter.

Oddly, registration is a lot more expensive than for a car, but a scooter could be a great option.

There is a "compulsory insurance" tax in my country, which is more expensive for motorcycles and similar vehicles (such as scooters and motor trikes) than for cars, otherwise the substantially lower fuel consumption still renders a small motorcycle useful.

What are the shipping costs these days? I know the price to get a container from China to the US was crazy a few months ago, but hopefully things have settled down.


If you're looking at a <15 mile commute in mild weather year round, why not just use a bicycle (or e-bike)?

EVs are heavily inflated in the US right now, ($9999 Bolts are no more, sitting in hundreds of shipping lots across the country)
though I know of where you can get a runs and drives (main bearing) Volt for $1500, if automotive bodywork is extremely cheap there it could work out especially if the Climate is very mild there.

There are some countries where auto work is so cheap it’s worth bringing a wreck or souping up a conversion like a Comutacar to 300 mile range locally.

@$8 gas it’s worth having an Insight or bike, convert to PHEV if you wish, not sure anything car related besides Insight or EV makes sense there. And remember there are economic Kei cars and EVs that may justify conversion from FLA to lithium in an $8 gas environment. Miles zx40, Kandi k27 ($9999) and others come to mind

For manufacturers shipping out of the US can be nearly free if your freight is going the correct place.

Sadly individuals can’t take advantage of the empty supertanker subsidy