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-   -   Neptune does not clear Pluto's orbit. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/neptune-does-not-clear-plutos-orbit-36827.html)

Xist 09-12-2018 02:47 AM

Neptune does not clear Pluto's orbit.
 
So, everybody decided to ditch Pluto twelve years ago, and while everyone had reasons, I just discovered the alleged real reason the other day--Pluto does not clear its own orbit.

Am I going to explain that?

No.

This scientist says that the definition that disqualified Pluto as a planet does not make sense and does not have a foundation: https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pluto-...ed-planet.html

I do not know if that guy mentioned it, but if Pluto does not clear its own orbit, neither does Neptune.

Neil Degrassy Tyson says that if we classify every spherical body in the solar system as a planet we would have fifty.

Nobody calls Endor a planet, even though it had adequate gravity and supported life. I bet you do not even know the name of the host planet!

Actually, the planet is Endor. Oh well.

1. Adequate mass to become spherical.
2. Not orbiting a larger planet.
3. ????
4. Planet!

RedDevil 09-12-2018 02:59 AM

The Force is strong with this one.

I guess some planets are more planet than others.
Pluto is a dog and Goofy is a dog, but somehow Pluto is more dog than Goofy.

(Actually Goofy is based on a dingo: Canis lupus dingo, while Pluto is a mixed breed dog: Canis lupus familiaris.)

Most people produce more endorphins when accompanied by dogs.

Xist 09-12-2018 03:57 AM

Is that when walking the dog or being chased by it? :)

niky 09-12-2018 04:41 AM

Goofy occupies a different ecological niche to Pluto.

Pluto is a monkey analogue. Goofy is a human analogue.

-

Fudge it, I agree with him. Sphericity.

Because the "Dwarf Planet" classification doesn't make much sense when some of those dwarves don't have enough mass to form into a perfect sphere.

Also, why does Mercury get a free pass when it is smaller than some moons?

RedDevil 09-12-2018 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 578746)
Is that when walking the dog or being chased by it? :)

Both do, actually. Getting bitten does the trick too.

Xist 09-12-2018 11:35 AM

Several moons are larger than the planet Pluto and two moons are larger than the planet Mercury. There also are many small moons that may be asteroids captured by their planets.

The smallest moons are seven miles in diameter, except asteroids have moons, too. In 1993, an tiny moon called Dactyl was discovered orbiting the large asteroid Ida. Dactyl is only about 1 mile wide.

Cassini discovered two moons, two miles, and two and a half miles in diameter. Is there a minimum size to classify as a moon, aside from "Large enough to be detected?"

oil pan 4 09-12-2018 11:38 AM

Yes, eventually Pluto will hit Neptune or become one of its moons, possibly with in the next 100,000 years.

If you look at Jupiter it looks more like a solar system than a planet with moons.

NeilBlanchard 09-12-2018 12:53 PM

There are many reasons that Pluto is no longer classified as a planet. There are many other bodies out there around it - that are larger than Pluto. Like 100, if I recall correctly. It is not in an orbit that is "flat" with the major planets.

samwichse 09-12-2018 02:07 PM

https://airandspace.si.edu/files/ima...rbit-color.jpg

http://www.solstation.com/solsys/ek2belt.jpg

Xist 09-12-2018 04:30 PM

Wow, you guys are so intolerant! Why won't you let a planet do it's own thing?! No! Conform or we demote you!

What does Pluto even care about your opinion?!

jamesqf 09-13-2018 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 578741)
So, everybody decided to ditch Pluto twelve years ago...

Not everybody did. Not even most astronomers did. It was something that was pushed through a meeting pretty much in secret, after most of the attendees had gone home.

The real reason for that vote?
Quote:

There was an astronomer named Brian Marsden who for decades had a grudge against Tombaugh. He had public fights that many people observed. Tombaugh died in 1997 and Marsden went on a jihad to diminish his reputation by removing Pluto from the list of planets. He eventually found a way to do that at a convention of astronomers, a meeting with thousands of people, of which a very small fraction – 4% – went to a room where the vote was taken.
- Alan Stern, project director of the New Horizons mission, quoted here: https://www.theguardian.com/science/...uto-debate-row

RedDevil 09-13-2018 02:44 AM

Maybe there's a black hole waiting to be named. The Marsden Hole. Hmm.

freebeard 09-14-2018 02:45 AM

Quote:

Am I going to explain that?
No need to. Pandora > Endor. Fight me.

https://probaway.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=529&h=529
https://probaway.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=529&h=529

How did Disney know!?!

NASA scientists say: Pluto is alive and strangely resembles Earth | CSGlobe
Quote:

Pluto has blue skies, they may not be as sunny as those on Earth but the sky on the dwarf planet is undoubtedly blue.

The discovery was made thanks to NASA’s New Horizons spacecraft during the historic flyby near the icy dwarf planet in July this year[2015].
[snip]
The new images prove, without a doubt, that Pluto has surprisingly Earth-like features and that the dwarf planet is very similar to Earth.

As for life on Pluto, scientists have not denied or confirmed whether Pluto is warm enough for living organisms to survive.
[snip]
Stern described Pluto as “alive” and said: “It has weather, it has hazes in the atmosphere [and] active geology.”
Pluto close-up pictures reveal 11,000 foot high ice mountains
Pluto has 11,000 ft mountains made of water ice and is likely to have volcanoes and geyzers, the New Horizon team announced today.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...mountains.html

https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/mul...__3377025b.jpg

markweatherill 09-14-2018 03:48 AM

But
 
....but they're just lights in the sky!

(apart from NUBIRU)

NeilBlanchard 09-14-2018 12:48 PM

Pluto is smaller than our moon. There are at least 100 bodies out there in the outer solar system, that are larger than Pluto - do we add all of them, too?

Pluto is a dwarf planet. We have to accept facts.

Xist 09-14-2018 01:40 PM

1. Adequate mass to become spherical.
2. Not orbiting a larger planet.
3. ????
4. Planet!

freebeard 09-14-2018 02:21 PM

Quote:

Pluto is a dwarf planet. We have to accept facts.
That's size-ist! twelve is a nice round number (in doudecimal).

https://www.tokenrock.com/stock/nibiru2.jpg
https://www.tokenrock.com/explain-ni...anet-x-98.html

samwichse 09-14-2018 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 579004)
That's size-ist! twelve is a nice round number (in doudecimal).

https://www.tokenrock.com/stock/nibiru2.jpg
https://www.tokenrock.com/explain-ni...anet-x-98.html

Wait, the sun and moon are planets? No.

Xist 09-14-2018 03:38 PM

These are celestial bodies. Is Sol the same class as the rest? No. Is Luna? No. Also, does anyone argue that a moon is a planet?

Sadly, yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGoZZvfEd6A

I call that refuted.

freebeard 09-14-2018 04:30 PM

The Sumerians had it more right than the Hellenic Greeks. They really set things back.

No one calling out Nibiru?

RedDevil 09-14-2018 07:32 PM

Nibiru is fringe science at best.
Quote:

The word Nibiru comes from the writings of the Azerbaijani American author and ancient astronaut theorist Zecharia Sitchin.[19]
I have it on good authority that 'Ni biru' means 'Two beer' in Japanese, which may as well give a clue to the source.

Which reminds me of...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neoUi4poCXI

Natalya 09-20-2018 09:59 AM

二ビール
Ni Biiru
Hahahaha!!

Sadly this doesn't actually work in Japanese. They stick "counter words" in everything where you're naming a number of an object. Different types of objects get different counter words. The counter for glasses of a drink is "hai" so you'd have to say ni-hai biiru.

二杯ビール
Also written as:
にはいビール

Also whoever wrote that thing about Nibiru with that terrible diagram is out of their mind.

freebeard 09-20-2018 11:18 AM

Thank goodness you didn't say "whoever posted it".

Duck Duck Go picked it out.

jamesqf 09-20-2018 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 579021)
These are celestial bodies. Is Sol the same class as the rest? No. Is Luna? No. Also, does anyone argue that a moon is a planet?

Why should the moon not be considered to be the same as a planet in most practical ways? It's big enough to be round, is internally differentiated, has a bit of geology going on...

If not Luna, how about Titan? It's got an atmosphere, with oceans (or at least big lakes) & rivers, which is more than Mercury & Mars have.

redpoint5 09-20-2018 03:14 PM

It all seems more arbitrary than many other systems of differentiation. Perhaps we should classify things in terms of what they are a "moon" of, meaning what they orbit. The Earth is a moon of the Sun, and the Sun is a moon of the galaxy, and the galaxy is a moon of the universe.

The most widely held theory is that the moon is comprised of partly some object colliding with earth, and taking a chunk of it away. Maybe we should call it earth theif?

Anyhow, what I don't get is if the moon is partly composed of earth, then why aren't the same diversity of elements and compounds found there?

freebeard 09-20-2018 04:51 PM

Quote:

The most widely held theory is that the moon is comprised of partly some object colliding with earth, and taking a chunk of it away. Maybe we should call it earth theif?
Anyhow, what I don't get is if the moon is partly composed of earth, then why aren't the same diversity of elements and compounds found there?
Which theory fails to account for the exact size and distance compared to the Sun.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckDuckGo
But then why is there such a big difference between the specific gravity of the Moon (3.33 grams per cubic centimeter) and that of the Earth (5.5 gr.)? Furthermore ...

Also it rings like a bell.

Vman455 09-20-2018 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 579534)
Anyhow, what I don't get is if the moon is partly composed of earth, then why aren't the same diversity of elements and compounds found there?

They are similar; the two most abundant elements in the earth's crust are oxygen and silicon, which together make up more than 75% of the crust by mass. The moon's surface has a similar chemical composition, more than 60% oxygen and silicon.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sition.svg.png

By "same diversity of elements and compounds," I assume you mean things like organic molecules. Having an atmosphere really helps with that--which was instrumental to the development of organic molecules here on Earth.

Vman455 09-20-2018 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 579545)
Which theory fails to account for the exact size and distance compared to the Sun.

Also it rings like a bell.

While the average density (g/mL is a calculation of density, not specific gravity. Mass is a property that exists independent of gravity, and mass per volume is a derived unit) of Earth is 5.5 g/mL, and the average density of the moon is 3.3 g/mL, these numbers include the molten cores and mantles of both bodies, which is relatively much larger for Earth and skews its overall average density higher. The average density of Earth's continental crusts, which are slightly less dense than oceanic crust, is 2.67 g/mL, while the average density of the Moon's crust is 2.55 g/mL.

freebeard 09-20-2018 08:36 PM

??? You cut out the part where I was quoting someone else? (DDG since I didn't evaluate their link)

I agree that it's more likely the old Pacific not-ocean flung into space. I thought it was doubtful anything could penetrate to the core. The impact that led to the Snake River basin and Yellowstone apparently only penetrated 40-50 miles into the Earth's mantle.

Now I have to go look whether the Moon even has a core. ... Yup.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ection.svg.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern..._the_Moon#Core
Quote:

Several lines of evidence imply that the lunar core is small, with a radius of about 350 km or less.[3] The size of the lunar core is only about 20% the size of the Moon itself, in contrast to about 50% as is the case for most other terrestrial bodies. The composition of the lunar core is not well constrained, but most believe that it is composed of metallic iron alloyed with a small amount of sulfur and nickel. Analyses of the Moon's time-variable rotations [!] indicate that the core is at least partly molten.[4]
Does it stutter?

niky 09-21-2018 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 579531)
Why should the moon not be considered to be the same as a planet in most practical ways? It's big enough to be round, is internally differentiated, has a bit of geology going on...

Many have pointed out in the past (and present, I guess) that you could call the Earth-Luna system a binary planet, given the size of the moon in relation to its primary.

Well, not quite a binary system, as the center of the orbital system lies somewhere in the Earth's mantle. Give the moon a few million (a few ten million? hundred million? a billion?) years to wander further away and the center will be outside of Earth... at which point you will now have two planets (or one planet and one dwarf) orbiting a common point that is orbiting around the sun.

Vman455 09-21-2018 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 579574)
??? You cut out the part where I was quoting someone else? (DDG since I didn't evaluate their link)

Yes, I saw that you quoted a search result, and I didn't re-quote it because a) the "quote" tool didn't capture it and b) I didn't feel like copy-pasting it since anyone reading can simply scroll up two posts and read it themselves. I responded to it because you posted the search result with no indication that you took it at anything but face value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 579574)
Does it stutter?

I already said the moon has a core, when I wrote, "...these numbers include the molten cores and mantles of both bodies...." Not sure what point you're trying to make here?

euromodder 09-21-2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDevil (Post 578889)
Maybe there's a black hole waiting to be named. The Marsden Hole. Hmm.

Already exists in the UK :D

freebeard 09-21-2018 11:38 AM

Vman455 — Okay, it just seemed odd.
Quote:

Analyses of the Moon's time-variable rotations [!] indicate that the core is at least partly molten.

Does it stutter?
Maybe stutter isn't the word for 'speeds up and slows down'.

NeilBlanchard 09-21-2018 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 579531)
Why should the moon not be considered to be the same as a planet in most practical ways? It's big enough to be round, is internally differentiated, has a bit of geology going on...

If not Luna, how about Titan? It's got an atmosphere, with oceans (or at least big lakes) & rivers, which is more than Mercury & Mars have.

Planets orbit stars. Moons orbit planets.

Xist 09-21-2018 11:28 PM

What would you call a satellite orbiting a moon?

Impossible: https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#512e5f0916a9

(or infinitely improbable)

freebeard 09-22-2018 02:54 PM

What would you call three moons orbiting.... nothing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKvnn1r-9Iw

RedDevil 09-22-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 579621)
Planets orbit stars. Moons orbit planets.

Pluto has 5 moons, so it must be a (dwarf) planet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Pluto

Though it is much smaller that the biggest moon in our solar system: Ganymede

Xist 09-22-2018 05:16 PM

Pluto has fleas?

freebeard 09-22-2018 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man
A: A "simulation" of something that may/may not physically exist.

Given a mature space program, I think it would be worth setting up a space hotel or something simply to make one exist. Maybe in an halo orbit at a La
Grange point.

Quote:

Pluto has fleas?
Quote:

Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so, ad infinitum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphonaptera_(poem)

And so it is with moons?

RedDevil 09-23-2018 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 579726)
Pluto has fleas?

If Pluto has fleas then Uranus has flies :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Uranus


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