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Old 03-26-2010, 11:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I wonder if the wing that some people put on would help any?

I would love to have one w/ a TDI. Many folks on the TDIClub claim to be getting 52MPG's w/ a 5-speed. That would work for me. It would be interesting to see how much better am Ecomodded New Bug would do.

Isn't it the lightest of all the TDI offerings?

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Old 03-26-2010, 01:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Does anyone want me to tuft test my sisters 08 New Beetle?
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If flow is attached down to the bumper Ernie's wing would do nothing.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Lightest TDI?

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Originally Posted by Dave's Civic Duty View Post
I wonder if the wing that some people put on would help any?

Isn't it the lightest of all the TDI offerings?

Dave
Lightest VW TDI in the U.S.? Perhaps, although I bet a 2 door Golf is pretty close.
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The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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does it do or does it doesn't?

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Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
If flow is attached down to the bumper Ernie's wing would do nothing.
Frank, I realize you are the master of brevity but are you saying you think Ernie's wing helps reduce drag or are you suggesting it has no value?
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The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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What possible aid could the wing provide if the flow is attached down to the bumper without it?
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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What possible aid could the wing provide if the flow is attached down to the bumper without it?
Here is the link for the AutoSpeed article where I believe the above drawing was lifted:

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And Julian Edgar's explanation for the terrible drag and lift coefficients for the New Beetle:

"So the problem must be at the back? And it is. But it's a different problem to that which we've seen before. Here the flow remains attached right down to the line of the guard/boot opening. And this results in a very small wake for the (it's larger than you'd think) size of the car. But it also means that the airflow wraps in one long curve from the base of the windscreen right around over the top of the car to nearly the rear bumper. Aeroplane wing, did you say? And not only will this shape have major lift (without an undercar ground-effects tunnel, anyway; and I looked under and didn't see that), but much of the force will be upwards and rearwards - creating that monster drag".

And farther down in the article, the VW factory wing designed fix, a spoiler to combat lift at high speeds.

Aerohead has suggested that the "birdbath spoiler" and the double wing on the Mercury Merkur also reduce lift and drag. But I'm no expert. I only know what I read on the internet and it can be rife with unsubstantiated opinions.
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The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob10_99 View Post
Well the link shows video of the tuft testing, and it does look connected up to the end of the trunk.
It's possible that the tufts are saying something different.
Both old and new Beetle are pseudo-fast back cars.The original air-cooled Beetle took advantage of the separated flow,spanwise vortex crashing against the body where the cooling air inlet slits are located to feed the cooling fan.
It's possible that the New Beetle also suffers the same separated flow and attendant vortex which may be slamming the tufts,not attached flow.
The loose rule is,don't exceed 22-degrees unless there is a step somewhere behind to re-attach to,like Ernie's wing,or the Herrod Helper,or Porsche's Whale-Tail Carrera wing,also Daytona Charger trunklid.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I was reading on some old VW electric(youtube I think) about the herard helper, and he said his batteries had quite a bit more charge at the end of the daily trip than they usually have. So it seems that the wing helps a lot with the drag, correct?
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Driving a mkiv new beetle (tdi) and my golf back to back for a few years, I'd guess they are the same weight, however the beetle has much much more engine load + wind noise at highway speed.

There is a lot to be desired in the New Beetle layout . . . Much of which could be repaired without affecting looks (noticeably), not saying the Golf is perfect, just closer.

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