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-   -   New car fashion or function (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/new-car-fashion-function-18043.html)

endurance 07-05-2011 10:58 AM

New car fashion or function
 
So I'm walking out of work and there's a brand new 2011 Prius sitting right next to a brand new 2011 BMW X3. Now there's not a heck of a lot these two cars have in common, but there was something remarkably obvious; the upward sweeping body fold leading from the front wheels to the upper end of the tail light.
http://priushybridcars.com/wp-conten...20356693-E.jpg

http://www.carsview.net/up/images/2011-bmw-x3.jpg

Now that I look around, this trend is everywhere, so is it fashion or function? It appears like it might divert air from low on the car into the area where the most 'suction' would be in the slipstream of the car.

http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/hy...429102_717.jpg
2011 Elantra

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....80-003_opt.jpg
2011 Fiesta

d0sitmatr 07-05-2011 11:22 AM

im pretty sure its functional within a fashionable sense ;)

kach22i 07-05-2011 11:38 AM

My 1966 Mustang had something similar, I think it's for attracting door dings from dingbats.

How To Replace Your Mustang Door's Outer Sheetmetal | Mustang & Fords Magazine Article at Automotive.com
http://image.automotive.com/f/howto/...mage_large.jpg

Shinjitsu 07-05-2011 11:48 AM

It would make sense that it would be at least somewhat functional. Most of us know, and if you don't your about to, that the wheel wells are an area where air is slowed down because of drag which makes that area a high-pressure area of the car. If you ever drive behind someone in the rain you can see the effects of this b/c there it a ton of mist and rain flying out of the wheel wells. So these body lines could be trying to suck that air out a little more and guide it to the place it is needed most - where the rear of the car creates a vacuum. If they can feed more air softly around the rear of the car, they can fill in part of that vacuum that is basically sucking the car back. Then again, the body line has been around for a while so it could just be a trend.

botsapper 07-05-2011 11:49 AM

A very fashionable & trendy character line that parallels or tapers along with the beltline. It gives definition & personality. Depending on the design language, it could be casual, formal, slashing, or geometric. Sometimes too many lines could make it too fussy.

cfg83 07-05-2011 01:58 PM

endurance -

Thanks for posting. I love this stuff. What I look for is whether it is "inline" with the door handles. Aesthetically that is what I prefer.

Here is one I have noticed. I call it the "J-Line" or "The Hook" :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...olet-cruze.jpg

(It also meets a corner of the rear tail light)

Now, you could argue that all cars have this detail nascent in their design because most cars have circular front wheel wells that "trigger" the design lines in some way or another. My distinction is how "crisp" the geometry of the J-Line actually is, aka how easy is it to see. In the case of the Chevy Cruze, the front headlights are partially shaped by the J-Line, and it continues without interruption to the end of the car, so it is very crisp.

CarloSW2

Ryland 07-05-2011 02:11 PM

A crease like that is going to make the door skin stiffer as well, allowing for thinner door skin to be used.
Having hung out with industrial design students and instructors it would appear to me that they like the aesthetic of lines like that and it is what is being taught in school.

botsapper 07-05-2011 03:27 PM

Hmmm...maybe one too many.
http://wot.motortrend.com/files/2011...ee-quarter.jpg

And an understated example. http://www.classicargarage.nl/common...6_exterior.JPG

mnmarcus 07-05-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryland (Post 248521)
A crease like that is going to make the door skin stiffer as well, allowing for thinner door skin to be used.
Having hung out with industrial design students and instructors it would appear to me that they like the aesthetic of lines like that and it is what is being taught in school.

Being a graduated industrial design student who still sketches I have to say I'm 99% certain it's purely cosmetic. From what I've learned about aerodynamics I doubt it would help FE. It may help downforce.?. The thing is, it probably doesn't hurt a lot since it is on the side of the car.

I've spent countless hours trying to sketch a car that is pretty aero and good looking. I wrestle with ways to get away from that aesthetic treatment, or minimize its negative aero effects.

kach22i 07-05-2011 04:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is one which is an earlier example, maybe ahead of it's time by a few years.

Toyota Celica
Automotive info » Blog Archive » Toyota Celica
http://automodelsinfo.com/wp-content...-celica-10.jpg

On the soft side, the jellybean car has yet another adaptation of it.
1997 Ford Taurus

ChazInMT 07-05-2011 04:36 PM

I vote cosmetical, function maybe to help stiffen the panel, but aero wise, I can't see it doing much if anything.

winkosmosis 07-05-2011 07:52 PM

The character lines look like they hurt aero. I think they do add stiffness which might help a little in a side impact.

Frank Lee 07-05-2011 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinjitsu (Post 248501)
It would make sense that it would be at least somewhat functional. Most of us know, and if you don't your about to, that the wheel wells are an area where air is slowed down because of drag which makes that area a high-pressure area of the car. If you ever drive behind someone in the rain you can see the effects of this b/c there it a ton of mist and rain flying out of the wheel wells. So these body lines could be trying to suck that air out a little more and guide it to the place it is needed most - where the rear of the car creates a vacuum. If they can feed more air softly around the rear of the car, they can fill in part of that vacuum that is basically sucking the car back. Then again, the body line has been around for a while so it could just be a trend.

You get the prize for having the most vivid imagination.

NeilBlanchard 07-05-2011 09:54 PM

There may be some aero function, on some of the cars, at least. The wedge in front of the front wheel may serve to kick the air flow out and around the churning wheel? And the trailing crisp edge on the Prius behind the rear wheel forms a Kamm back of sorts. The Prius also has a vestigial rear wheel strake.

I think the hard chine along the fenders and doors is a bit of styling, that has virtually no aero "cost".

Shinjitsu 07-05-2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 248573)
You get the prize for having the most vivid imagination.

Haha Thanks :)

cfg83 07-05-2011 11:59 PM

kach22i -

I think you're right the Celica. I disliked it at first as garish, but over time I grew to like it as the field "caught up".

CarloSW2

jamesqf 07-06-2011 12:38 AM

I vote for functional, by default. Can't be for style, 'cause it's ugly. Makes the car look even fatter in the rear than it actually is. Or maybe they're trying to appeal to the... oh, call it the chubby market to be kind. "Oh, look! That car has a fat butt, just like me!"

endurance 07-06-2011 09:51 AM

Well, I suspect it's a bit of both. Unlike the two examples kach22i put up, these 2010s and 2011s have a noticibly rising line to the crease, not just following parallel to the ground. I'd suspect they're trying to move air into the low pressure zone behind the rear window. The only 2010 I saw with this was the Prius, but now it's appearing everywhere including the new CR-Z (just saw my first one in the parking lot at work today).

I tried to look at highway MPG changes, but while every car I've noted got better MPG with the introduction of the upward wedge, they also all had changes in engines that probably played as big or a bigger role. The Prius, which doesn't appear to have had a change in displacement, had other changes which resulted in an increase in highway and city mpg by 3mpg.

simondo 07-06-2011 11:05 AM

My opinion is that it adds stiffness to the panels, and is also a styling exercise. I do not think it serves any aerodynamic purpose.

I looked at lots of cars on my way home today, and not all have these "lines", and the Seat has them going downwards!

aerohead 07-07-2011 05:06 PM

crease
 
I vote 'structural',with creative license.
Daimler called it 'Zeppelinesque' I think.
The corrugation allows for stiffness in a thin,light,fuel-saving panel which would otherwise 'tin-can' or resonate.
The car skin can wad up in a collision absorbing kinetic energy of impact,leaving the safety cage and airbags as the 'barrier' to protect the occupants.
Any kind of crease adds the stiffness,so designers have a large degree of creative latitude in its use.
As to aero,I'll await an SAE Paper or journalistic synopsis of such a paper.

Peter7307 07-08-2011 07:12 PM

There may be some minor benefit from stopping water spray and road grime from getting onto the side windows as well.

Not sure about the aero benefits.
Possibly there to direct air to the upper portion of the rear panel?

Just afew thoughts,

Peter.

silverinsight2 07-09-2011 10:58 AM

Definately not aero

http://www.1960impala.com/Ebayphotos...s/P2170058.JPG

CFECO 07-09-2011 11:42 AM

Beautiful though!

cfg83 07-09-2011 03:16 PM

silverinsight2 -

My Dad's Impala, Yay!

CarloSW2

kach22i 07-10-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverinsight2 (Post 249351)
Definately not aero

Great example man.:)

jamesqf 07-10-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFECO (Post 249360)
Beautiful though!

Strange tastes you have :-) I admit it's not QUITE as ugly as the '58, but close. The family had one when I was a teen (the '59, though, with the curved fins), and I used to daydream about taking a cutting torch and removing everything back of the rear wheels.

And then maybe remove some of the excess from the front, and the body overhang outside of the wheels... Guess I was an ecomodder at heart, even back then.

CFECO 07-10-2011 02:03 PM

To each his own! I am a car guy first, and EcoModder second. What ever I drive I'd like to make it the most efficient I can, but not necessarily chop, cut, graft, and modify until it matches "The Template". What a boring life if we all drove around in templates. If this was my car, and I wished to Mod it, I think a 6.5 turbo diesel with some tall gears, would be easily capable of 25 mpg with very good performance. Someone should wind tunnel one of these just for the heck of it.

Cd 07-10-2011 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFECO (Post 249554)
To each his own! I am a car guy first, and EcoModder second. What ever I drive I'd like to make it the most efficient I can, but not necessarily chop, cut, graft, and modify until it matches "The Template". What a boring life if we all drove around in templates. If this was my car, and I wished to Mod it, I think a 6.5 turbo diesel with some tall gears, would be easily capable of 25 mpg with very good performance. Someone should wind tunnel one of these just for the heck of it.

It has been done. In fact the article is posted somewhere on this forum.
The wind tunnel testing ( with images ) was done to prove whether or not the horizontal areas of the cars tail provided any lift at speed.
I think Aerohead posted the article.

euromodder 07-10-2011 04:12 PM

See
http://ecomodder.com/forum/249570-post149.html

Wedge line on Saab's 1985 EV-

Frank Lee 07-10-2011 04:37 PM

That car would make a great solar oven!

euromodder 07-10-2011 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 249575)
That car would make a great solar oven!

Sure.
It's got PV cells in part of the roof ;)

CFECO 07-10-2011 06:17 PM

Very good, Thanks!

cfg83 07-10-2011 06:51 PM

euromodder -

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 249581)
Sure.
It's got PV cells in part of the roof ;)

You made me look (for it)! Here are the PC cells :

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/c...concept_07.jpg

And here it is with aerohead's template :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...o-template.jpg

CarloSW2

aerohead 07-12-2011 06:05 PM

splash and spray
 
I found a Mercedes Benz ad from around 1981.In the ad illustration a number of the cars features are explained.
One was a rubber flow fence adhered to the body sides which was said to prevent splash and spray from fouling the side glass of the car.


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