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-   -   new drag reducing technology (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/new-drag-reducing-technology-9000.html)

pmaltinsky 06-30-2009 12:34 PM

new drag reducing technology
 
Has anyone looked into fast skinz? It is a wrap that goes on your vehicle that uses the same drag reducing theory of a golf ball. I just saw it in a Popular Science Magazine and though it looked interesting.

MPG-Plus™, Drag Reducing Technology, Improve MPG, Vehicle Wraps, FastSkinz™

SVOboy 06-30-2009 12:41 PM

It actually isnt the same theory as a golf ball, which is why it wont work. However, they would like you to believe it worked on the same principles, ;)

theycallmeebryan 06-30-2009 01:02 PM

sniff snifff.....

smells like a rotten can of SPAM.

(1 post).... just like the other thread that was started about this stuff.

alohaspirit 06-30-2009 03:35 PM

i remember reading a thread about this here back when i was lurking

no-go

robchalmers 06-30-2009 04:22 PM

Have you guys heard of sharkskin? its a wrap you put at boudary separation radius and it premature layer seperation and thus reduces drag.... now if only i could find a link

Bicycle Bob 06-30-2009 04:43 PM

"Sharkskin" uses micro-grooves parallel to the flow to reduce boundary layer turbulence. It was outlawed in rowing competition, but I've never heard of an automotive trial.

Cd 06-30-2009 05:04 PM

Hey guys, I have to apologize for posting about an article in Popular Science magazine that touted the virtues of vertical windmills.
I thought that since this is a magazine that has been around for over a hundred years, it had some credibility.

All they ever seem to offer are empty promises and vaporware.

Guess what is is the latest issue on page 37 ... Ta Da !
Entitled " Planet Fixers", there is a write up on 'driveable golf balls' SkinzWraps !!!, which it touts as increasing FE up to '20% '. !!!

Wow ! ( And i thought it was the same magazine that just busted the claim !! )

robchalmers 06-30-2009 05:08 PM

I was talking to the BAR Hond F1 Chief aero bloke a few years ago, William Teot, and they said it worked in areas but the were some reason or other they chose not to use it....?? strange anyway I know Airbus use it!

cfg83 06-30-2009 05:26 PM

robchalmers -

Quote:

Originally Posted by robchalmers (Post 113037)
Have you guys heard of sharkskin? its a wrap you put at boudary separation radius and it premature layer seperation and thus reduces drag.... now if only i could find a link

I googled "sharkskin aerodynamic" and found these :

The Shark Coating - A technology imitating the "riblet effect" from shark skin - Softpedia - 16th of December 2006
Quote:

Have you ever touched shark skin? It is very abrasive, like sand paper.
This is due to a special type of scales, called placoid ("slate-like"), very similar structurally to teeth and carrying tiny ridge-like structures. The tiny ridges arranged parallel to the swimming direction - known as "riblets" - decrease drag in water, explaining the amazing speed that some sharks reach with minimal effort.

Shark Skin Research Could Reduce Airplane Drag By 30 Percent - December 5, 2007
Quote:

It may seem obvious that the surface of an airplane should be as smooth as possible to minimize aerodynamic drag, but that's not really the case. A bit of roughness can break up the boundary layer and improve efficiency. Sharks, with skin formed of rough scales called denticles, can slip through the water at speeds of up to 60 mph with minimal drag. This week, The Lindbergh Foundation awarded a grant to Dr. Amy Lang, at the University of Alabama, to study whether the surface texture on the skin of fast-swimming sharks, capable of bristling their scales when in pursuit of prey, could be mimicked and used to reduce the drag on aircraft. "If we can successfully show there is a significant effect, future applications to reduce drag of aircraft and underwater vehicles could be possible," said Lang. The technology has the potential to increase aerodynamic efficiency up to 30 percent, with savings of billions of dollars and substantial reductions in fuel burn and emissions.
CarloSW2

anthonye81 07-03-2009 03:53 PM

Any claim for a 20% boost in MPG is always going to look dodgy!

For years aircraft have had micro-drilled holes in wing surfaces, which (if I remember correctly) create tiny pockets of low pressure when an airflow moves over the wing surface. The low pressure helps keep the airflow attached to the wing surface, albeit for the purposes of generating lift rather than reducing drag, but hey I guess it can work both ways. Fans of The Simpsons may remember Homer pickaxe'ing "speed holes" into his car, although they were slightly bigger than a fraction of a millimetre...

Any aero experts out there feel free to point out the bits I got wrong!

Bicycle Bob 07-03-2009 04:01 PM

I think you may have heard of the experimental technique of boundary layer control involving powered suction.

RandomFact314 07-03-2009 10:51 PM

Yeah I have seen this golf ball idea I don't know if it would work, although i would totally slap it on my car if I got some for free and try it out :D especially on my side view mirrors :p besides, you know this is probably spam because he has been here a month and only has 1 freaking post...

tripp323 07-08-2009 07:23 PM

reply to 'skins'
 
- maybe just wrap your ride in one of those new Speedo LZR swimsuits? ;)

Christ 07-08-2009 08:06 PM

Fix your aerodynamics - chop the top.

Be a real golf fanatic - get "Fast Skinz" dimple wrap.

'Nuff said.

alohaspirit 07-08-2009 10:05 PM

i think im better off shaving my head to get better aero in my convertible

RandomFact314 07-08-2009 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohaspirit (Post 114551)
i think im better off shaving my head to get better aero in my convertible

lol you could always put on one of those rubber caps pro swimmers wear, no need to cut off precious hair, we don't get to have hair forever~~ :rolleyes: <--- He is not rolling his eyes, he is looking at his bald head

alohaspirit 07-08-2009 10:31 PM

yeah but you can always tell the hardcore swimmers by the shaved head

pmaltinsky 07-11-2009 09:58 AM

just because I have only posted one thread does not mean it was spam. Some people are just too busy to sit in front of a computer all day. I agree that a 20% reduction in drag sounds like b/s, and I'd have to see it to believe it, but I tend not to dismiss anything without proof that it doesn't work either. If it wasn't so expensive I'd buy some and try it and post the results.

Christ 07-11-2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmaltinsky (Post 115071)
just because I have only posted one thread does not mean it was spam. Some people are just too busy to sit in front of a computer all day. I agree that a 20% reduction in drag sounds like b/s, and I'd have to see it to believe it, but I tend not to dismiss anything without proof that it doesn't work either. If it wasn't so expensive I'd buy some and try it and post the results.

It's not that you've only posted one thread, but the topic that the thread covered. Try searching for the topic you intend to post the next time.. if you had done so this time, you'd have found several threads talking about this very product.

If you just randomly post something that you think is interesting, with no new information about it, all we do is clog up the servers... and I don't think Darin likes that. :)

There are certain things here that get a rise out of people, that can be discussed page after page, only to get a new thread a few weeks later, to be discussed all over again, with the same arguments, etc.

This isn't one of those topics.

instarx 07-11-2009 07:19 PM

I never thought it was spam. First, he didn't capitalize it correctly as any marketing type would have done, and it turns out it's one word FastSkinz, not fast skinz. Seemed a genuine request for information to me. Maybe he should have searched first, but hey, nobody's perfect.

And if a little thread like this taxes the ecomodder servers then someone needs new servers.

max_frontal_area 07-19-2009 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonye81 (Post 113613)
Any claim for a 20% boost in MPG is always going to look dodgy!

For years aircraft have had micro-drilled holes in wing surfaces, which (if I remember correctly) create tiny pockets of low pressure when an airflow moves over the wing surface. The low pressure helps keep the airflow attached to the wing surface, albeit for the purposes of generating lift rather than reducing drag, but hey I guess it can work both ways. Fans of The Simpsons may remember Homer pickaxe'ing "speed holes" into his car, although they were slightly bigger than a fraction of a millimetre...

Any aero experts out there feel free to point out the bits I got wrong!

those holes iirc were fed by a compressor which caused them to ooze air
making the wings more productive during takeoff and landing effecively
lowering stall speed. bummer when they iced up though!

on the golfball skin... i remeber cycling helmets in the 90's that employed that thought. according to the tech which seemed to know his stuff, they worked.

on sharkskin it is not only the texture of the skin but also the loose, flabby
layers beneath the skin that allow oscilations by the sharks own movements
as well as the waters to be absorbed/disbursed, to make it such an efficent traveler.

longitudinal not transverse strips of silicone have been employed by both bicycle clothing manufatures as well as competitive swimwear companies - usually only to eventuallly get outlawed during competition.

i belive it was the last year that lance and his crew was sponsored by
discovery channel their speed suits as well as regular shorts/tops donned
tiny silicone dots throughout....

on surfboards and sailboards transverse 400 grit sandpaper scratches
are said to be the most effective surface treatment for speed.
that same grit is also supposed to simulate the surface texture
of extrude hone which is popularly used to smooth intake
manifolds for racing.

then of course during the 80's there was a 928 in competition
that sported reversed, raised (instead of sunken) NACA ducts
on parts of his vehicle. inspitation for airtabs???

lotsa surfaces can do lotsa good stuff if employed properly!

bnmorgan 07-30-2009 10:28 PM

If this worked, the vinyl used on windows in vehicle wraps would work VERY well. It's mostly holes, perforated finely, so that it's almost fully transparent from the inside, but the image can be seen well from the outside. The small perforations should make it all work like a charm, if there's anything to it at all. Now it would be cool if you could get it perforated in the vortex generator / naca shape.

kerosene 07-31-2009 03:15 PM

I am active on a boat design forum and the golf ball surface topic resurrects every now and then. Yes it does work to certain extent - enough that dimpled/grooved surfaces are banned in many sailing classes. This is under water but same difference. Helps to keep the laminary flow following in areas where it would break loose otherwise.

Is it a significant difference in a car - I doubt.

Bicycle Bob 07-31-2009 04:00 PM

Sharkskin grooves are banned for their ability to maintain laminar flow at an impractical dollar cost. Dimples can help a boundary layer remain attached by starting or adding turbulence to make it thicker. If anybody wants to get around a dimple ban on boats, a few barnacles should do the trick.

kerosene 08-01-2009 02:45 AM

well sometimes it seems that in racing yachts there is no such thing as "impractical cost"

I know they got some good results in some boat in the past but the rule change probably means more that the authorities don't want to deal with it and keep reviewing the under bodies in speculation whether they are legal - easier to ban dimples altogether.

Bicycle Bob 08-01-2009 02:56 AM

Can you really quote a ban on dimples? They are used to ameliorate excreable shapes. Are there single-design classes with separation problems? The sharkskin ban I heard of was regarding the olympics*, where there is some attempt to make it a contest between athletes rather than well-financed technicians.

*Boycott Vancouver Winter Olympics, and their Sponsors, please.

kerosene 08-01-2009 10:13 AM

Ya'know, like a golf ball - Boat Design Forums

"Back in 12 meter days, I believe 3M had a surface treatment that did exactly what you are describing. It worked to some extent so was ruled illegal."

I have no better source now but remember reading about it before from more "reliable" source. In general the problem seems to be that its very hard to know in which area it would help and in which area it would only add skin friction (which is big deal on boats)


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