New Electric Truck Company - Lordstown Motor Corp - LMC
 

GM is selling its Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant to a newly formed electric truck company, that is partly owned by Workhorse. It is called Lordstown Motor Corporation, or LMC. They are planning on building millions of electric trucks, in the old GM plant.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ormer-gm-plant


https://leftlanenews.com/2019/11/08/...-factory-sale/

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/ibimg/hgm/12..._100723510.jpg

They are still in the concept stage, but Workhorse has been at this for a while.

Ah, yes, the storied history of the Lordstown plant.

Home of the Chevrolet Vega and it’s Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time aluminum engine.

Where, “stopping to fill up”, meant oil, not gasoline.

Believe it when I see it.
I hope it works out for them.
But no one seems eager to make the first move on releasing an electric pickup.

Potential problems.
The biggest one I see with the concept of an electric pickup truck is level 2 charging is pretty much mandatory if you drive more than 30 miles a day.
It appears a large portion (as far as I can tell it's up to half of them) of electric car people only use level 1, they cry and whine so much about paying a few hundred dollars for a level 2 evse and a few hundred more for an electrician to install the circuit.

I had one of them Vegas, given to me by a family member.

It ran OK with no problems until one day with about 25K on the clock. On that day I was coming back from a hunting trip and I happened to look down at my aftermarket Stewart Warner oil pressure gauge as I was turning a corner, and the instrument announced with a needle-diving-to-zero that I had approaching-zero oil pressure!

Well, that was kind of interesting, so as I was preparing to pull to a stop after straightening out on the other side of the turn, the oil pressure went back up to a normal 25 or 30 psi level. Now, ain't that something.

Well, I continued on the way home but I kept my eye of that faithful SW gauge all the way there and, sure enough, it was telling me that the oil pressure fell as I made sharp turns but came back after straightening out again.

When I got home, I lifted the hood to see what was going on and found that the oil in my pan had dropped to well below the "add" mark on the sounding stick. First time I saw that happen. But not the last.

From that day forward that little aluminum-with-silicon-mix-block with the who-needs-sissy-cylinders-liners? design burned oil. Like, smoke signal level. I could blow smoke rings around tailgating traffic by clever use of the ignition key.

I didn't keep the Vega very long after it got old enough to smoke. I guess 25000 miles wasn't too bad, considering.

I'll agree with concept.

The greencarreports link shows a Model-S style electric motor at the front and rear axles, the leftlanenews link describes a hub motor design!

While I would welcome more diversity in the EV market, I would not personally put down any cash to purchase one until 'where can I fix it' and 'who supplies spare parts' is worked out. The announcement, in Nov 2019, of production starting 'late 2020' is ... umm .. a BIT optimistic?

VT Hackney is also a Workhorse partner and has one of the 5 finalists for the next mail truck.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tru...deal-work/amp/

The Vega engine had piston rings on Hypereutectic aluminum?
That's like a 30,000 mile engine.

Hub motors really aren't going to work in a pickup as the torque sucks. Plus if they use hub motors I'm going to call it now, it's vape.
I think a year from now nothing will have happened or be about to happen.

Not even the big manufacturerscreen do it that fast. Even when they come out with a new design they work on it for years. Most of the time they are reusing the engine and transmission out of last generation.

I put a steel sleeved block in one of the Vegas I owned back in the early 80s. That made them a pretty good car.

Did it have eight cylinders?
 

THOSE were very good cars!

I've often thought of converting a pickup to electric drive.
 

Most of my work vehicles are driven short distances and often sit for a day or two between use.

I also like the idea of reduced maintenance. Gasoline and diesel vehicles, no matter the make, are all higher maintenance than my little wife.

I believe there would be a good market for electric drive pickups, both large and small.

I away though the Vega engine had iron sleeves and it warped.
Cylinder sleeves in an aluminum are just common sense.

So .. how much would you pay (extra) above the gasser for an EV version?

Below are my thoughts, but I'd be interested in yours!

My thoughts are about 33%. Work the numbers however you wish ... the EV may last longer but I'm not sure that you will drive it longer before trading anyway. My fuel costs for 160K km (100K miles) ... with today's fuel costs ... is $16,000 Canadian. The truck cost $50K canadian. It should last me 7 or 8 years before I start putting serious cash into repairs. Assuming some stuff, the electricity should be between $4000 and $5000 for the same distance.

So the real cost of the fuel will be higher as gas prices rise. But electricity will rise as well. I'm calling maintenance $5K for the gas, and maybe $2K for EV .. not as large a difference as the 'fuel'. So I *SHOULD* be OK with paying $64K or $65K for the truck. Maybe up to $75K for the truck (50% more for the sticker price).

Would you pay even more, a premium, to drive electric? Maybe $80K or higher? I think Rivian announce $120K US. Tesla says $50K but we all know that will be, at best, 3 years into production.

Theirs no way it's going to be under 80 thousand.
The only way it would be affordable is if it was built on a gasser frame and body with a not really that impressive battery capacity.
The big 4 truck manufacturers could easily do it for under 100k.

Then they're a candidate for electrification
But the price is horrendous and the choice pretty limited when buying new E-vans and E-lighttrucks

VW E-Crafter starts @ 84000€ VAT included
The diesel Crafter starts at 32000 € VAT included

That pays for a LOT of maintenance and "more expensive" fuel !


Besides, no-one knows how electricity will be taxed in future

Both my Dodge Trucks are diesel.
 

They both have about 250k on the odometer. Minimum repairs other than belts and sensors and water pumps. To replace either one is going to cost a pretty penny in today's diesel market. An electric pickup needs to be able to tow our 24 foot flatbed a radius of about 60 miles. I would keep one diesel for the runs cross country. But the bulk of our material handling is within an hour of the shop. I would expect an E-pickup to come in a cost range comparable to a new Cummins Diesel. 50 thousand or so. USD. Club or Mega Cab. 4x4. Ok. It's looking closer to 65K dollars to replace my old 2007 diesels! Just as long as I stay away from the high trim models.

I can see $70K as an upper limit for most trades buyers.

What I would like to see, is an electric drive pickup, built like the Grumman Postal vehicles. A long lived chassis with a drive train that is easy to maintain and replace would be ideal. Off the lot Dodge diesel, or any diesel, is loaded with bells and whistles I simply don't need or need to pay for.

The Tesla pickup truck will be revealed November 21, 2019 - 10 days from now. They are aiming at a base price of $49K.

The Rivian R1T will be shipping next year, I believe. They have Mitsubishi's old plant in Normal Illinois (where the i MiEV was built).

Bollinger Motors is moving closer to production, with their B1 and B2 - they are expensive, at $125K; but robust as hell.

Ford is going to be building an electric F-150, and an electric "Mustang-inspired" SUV is being revealed later this month.

Rustylugnut, ever been to the diyelectriccar.com website ? Also,try car-part.com for used car parts. Larger Kwh Tesla batteries can be had for around $10,000.00 and maybe even a Tesla rear mounted motor-controller. If you have talented friends I can't see a conversion costing over $30,000.00 and that may be high.

Weight of trailer and load will need careful scrutiny. Still believe 150 mile range loaded is possible. Do more searching. Good luck if you try this.

UDATE: You are in EV parts heaven. No shipping required, possibly. Tesla 75 Kwh 600+HP motor at this location for under $3000.00.

https://hsrmotors.com/products/driveunits

I believe that Tesla will get there. But it won't be for 2 or 3 years. And that 'base' model won't ship to Canada ... the Model S, X and 3 all had a 'cold weather' package (it wasn't called that though) that was part of the Canadian Tesla site, required to get it across the border. I expect that it will just be included when I order a 'Standard' model ... or whatever Tesla calls it when the time comes

I could be looking in the wrong places ... but it does not appear that 'base' models are available anywhere but the lower 48

I was interested in a Tesla drive unit bolted to an older pickup ... and was told that changing the truck to accept independent rear suspension (like what Tesla has) is expensive and very custom.

But I didn't check out anyone local to do the work :( ...

I don't know where base models are available, but the base Model 3 cannot be ordered online. You've got to phone in those orders.

“Best” Vega I ever came across was a local who shoehorned in 400 4-bolt & Th400. Cut down a 12-bolt to fit the rear. Idea was stock appearance. Wasn’t bad at all.

Wheel stand, anyone?

I think he made back on what he spent till that power started tearing apart the car at the door-rear/roof seam.

THAT was a Vega. Ate Camaros for breakfast and Corvettes for dinner. None of those guys knew how to launch. He had it nailed.

Did the equivalent with ford parts in a Pinto. Totally stock looking except the rear tires. Same sort of final result, broke all the windows and bent the car.

extra
 

Looking at the 2012,back-to-back CAR and DRIVER comparison,between a Tesla S and BMW 5-series,the Tesla,while 14.4% more expensive on the front- end,ended up 25.4% cheaper to
'fuel' over the long-term.That's a pretty good parlor trick! And one reason why some nations are bailing from ICE and leap-frogging to EV,at least plug-in hybrids.The business model for 'pistons' looks bleaker every year.ICE cars have great 'battery packs' but their 'motors' really suck! They just can't break free of their 2nd-Law of Thermodynamics prison.

The only “reason” (rationale) for electric cars is that the automobile has become a commodity. The profiteers behind it — bending regulators, bribing legislators and funding media allies— is to capture the lifetime cost of fuel.

10% is donuts & coffee. The assumptions about reliability and longevity are hot-air promises. Won’t pan out as “better”.

Except the better control of populations. That’s the leapfrog game.

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Workhorse already owns an old GM factory that they are using a tiny fraction of the floorspace. Ask yourself why they need another factory.

I suspect this is another scam where a company gets lots of government incentives to buy an old factory factory and promises the moon. Then they sell what they can for scrap and then close up shop. Elio did that down in Louisiana and it has happened twice in my old home town.

Unless they are the winners for the next postal mail truck contract and the 1/2 million units they need.

The postal contract is 180,000 vehicles delivered over 5 to 7 years. That is tiny volume for an auto plant and easily within the capacity of their current location.

Maybe, they need 180k just to replace the completely broken 30 year old trucks, then they need another 50k to replace the now 15 year old Ford mail trucks and at that point (10-12 years from today) they will need 50k more to replace the now 1-5 year old minivans and Promasters. At that point the all new design ones they built in 2021 will need to be replaced so they dont end up in the same boat they are in now. Also 50k rural routes using private vehicles with a massive per mile reimbursement could be assigned a mail truck if there were actually more trucks available.

The contract to replace the LLV is 180,000 vehicles over 5-7 years. The USPS has delayed the decision until 2020 and has said it may split the award between multiple companies. Replacement step vans, and Promasters would be separate from that contract and hasn’t even started.

Even if for some reason the USPS decides to order 500,000 vehicles AND award all the business to one company that company does not require a factory capable of making 300,000 vehicles per year .

It does surprise me that nobody seems to have at least tried to enhance the off-road capability of the LLVs in order to render them suitable to the rural mail routes.

Rather than replace, consider a mild hybrid conversion with a 20hp altermotor. Ask HaroldinCR.
Those tar sands aren't going to produce forever; unlike the tides.

The problem with tidal power is building something that doesn't get smashed by storm waves or storm waves that have swept up boats, cars, 16 inch diameter peer pilons, ect.
I'm not saying it can't be done but what ever it looks like it needs to have a safe failure mode.
When it gets smashed is it going to dump hundreds of gallons of hydraulic fluid into the sea or fail in some way that's environmentally destructive?
Can it be dragged to higher ground or does it have to just weather the storm?
Anything that gets built by man to challenge or harness the seas always gets destroyed by the seas.

I think the way to build tidal power is to dam small inlets and then run water one way on the way in and then the other on the way out. So no hydraulics just regular water at different heights spinning turbines that turn generators. Put in a second overflow spill so if the tide or the inlet ever exceeds a certain level it just overflows that. The same reason they don't build new dams and even remove old working ones is why these will never be built.

They can use the LLV just fine on rural routes, it's just a question of there were never enough made and they can't make more. The last one was made in 1994 and there are 10s of thousands of new routes in the USA since then. Also 10s of thousands of the LLVs have been destroyed in accidents in the same time. It's pretty amazing as many are still on the road considering their daily industrial use and abuse. I don't see any 1994 cop cars still being used everyday on the beat. Maybe a few firetrucks that old more in a reserve capacity (although even brand new firetrucks are not always used daily)

I know, right?

My theory is use air, above the water surface, and put the mechanicals on top of that. I guess it comes from visiting the Devil's Punchbowl at Depoe Bay when I was a kid.

The inlet is in the tidal zone very close to low tide. A vault has a large area (like, Wallymart-sized) but not higher than the high tide level.The outlet is small and has subsonic air flow.

For the impound storage version, an hydraulic ram can raise water using the flow around it.

A small update on the LMC electric pickup:

https://leftlanenews.com/2019/12/23/...ectric-pickup/

$52,500 and $7500 in tax credits is less expensive than $50,000 and no tax credits. We will see on the specs once you can buy one of each and do a head to head comparison.

Well im calling it, its doa.
Not only did they say hub motors but they said gigantic 150hp each hub motors. If they produce any vehicles they are going to have to lose the hub motors.
Even tesla is smart enough not to even attempt hub motors in their pickup.

Yep, wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. Looks neat though.