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MorvanBen 05-09-2022 09:05 AM

New french member
 
Hi guys! I'm Benjamin, 32yo from France
I've been saving fuel for some time now but I do believe that I'm ready to level up a bit :p

I drive a diesel Fiat Multipla 1.9 jtd 120hp. Doing 5.27l/100km (44.63mpg)
I have very old tires on the car, 195/60/15
I will go for narrower tires asap (185/65/15), that's the smallest I can put on legally and chose a A ranked energy saving tire.
Do you guys did that already? Any idea of how much I can decrease my consumption just by doing that?

I want to remap my ECU too, here is what I can get, a looooot more torque. Is this bit of extra torque in low rpm will help me to reduce my consumption too? Any idea of how much I can save?
(I can't post a link yet because I'm a new member. All the data's can be found by searching "Fiat Multipla 2002 2010 1.9 Multijet stage 1 - BR-Performance on Google"

Thanks for your help!
Let me know if it's better to open one or two threads for each topics!

MetroMPG 05-09-2022 11:35 AM

Bienvenue, Benjamin!


I've changed your account so you can now post links/pictures.


As for your question about tires:



If the old tires are NOT low rolling reisistance, then you will notice a big difference in how easily the car coasts in neutral. That can save you a few percent in your fuel use. It can save you MORE than a few percent if you can change your driving techniques to take advantage of opportunities to coast longer before turns & stops. (Depends on traffic, too.)



Torque mapping:



As for changing engine characteristics, my feeling is that would be most useful if it allows you to change to top gear sooner than you can now.



Similar situation: I installed an "economy" camshaft in my gasoline engine that makes more low-end torque, so I can up-shift earlier.

MorvanBen 05-09-2022 12:51 PM

Thanks!

Here you can find some details about the possible remap:
https://www.br-performance.be/en-be/...-1-9-multijet/

We can see that they provide eco remap or stage 1 remaps. Both gives the same extra torque, so I guess the torque curve is the same that the one we can see in the stage 1 section
They claim 35% less fuel consumption, sounds completely irealistic, it means going from 45mpg to 68mpg...

For the tires, we have in Europe a specific label that gives infos on tyre noise, wet braking and rolling resistance. I think that my actual tires are ranked C and E, or E for all 4 tires. I'll get A ranked tires, but will I really decrease my consumption by 0.45l/100km as it is claimed? Seems huge! ( It means that I'll go from 45mpg to 49.5mpg! )
Here is the details about this label and the consumption
https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/tyres-a...ar-tyres-label

Piwoslaw 05-09-2022 04:24 PM

Hi Benjamin!
Welcome to EM:)

According to tire size calculator, if you go from 195/60R15 to 185/65R15 then the new tires will be ~5% narrower, slightly reducing aero drag. Also, the the diameter and circumference will be ~1.2% larger, which means that when cruising your engine will be at slightly lower RPMs.

Pumping the tires to a higher pressure will also reduce rolling resistance. I pump mine to the max pressure printed on the tire's sidewall, but if you want to start off safe then try 10% less than max sidewall.

As for chip tuning your engine's ECU, more torque at low RPMs will help reduce fuel consumption, as MetroMPG stated, but will it save enough to make up for the cost for the mod?

I would suggest you look into cleaning up your car's aero.
Also, since it is a diesel, covering the radiator/grille and insulating the engine bay will help retain heat as your efficiency improves.:thumbup:

How do you usually use your car? Daily driving in city traffic, high speed travelling on the expressways, etc.?

MorvanBen 05-09-2022 05:50 PM

Overpumping tires won't ruin the middle of the tire?

I'm thinking of making a blocked grill too, for the aero I won't do that much, except maybe a bigger front air dam and a belly pan, but it's definitely a long term project.

I live in the countryside, so here no traffic jam, no traffic lights... Just empty roads going uphill and downhill with a 90km/h speed limit

I often do longer trips (650 with return, or 900km with return but most of the time I drive on secondary roads, I try to avoid highways and when I have to use one, I never drive faster than 110km/h

freebeard 05-09-2022 09:18 PM

Welcome.
Quote:

Overpumping tires won't ruin the middle of the tire?
That was true of bias ply tires. Pneumatic structures admit cylindrical forms. The belts make it happen.

Piwoslaw 05-10-2022 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667751)
I live in the countryside, so here no traffic jam, no traffic lights... Just empty roads going uphill and downhill with a 90km/h speed limit

I often do longer trips (650 with return, or 900km with return but most of the time I drive on secondary roads, I try to avoid highways and when I have to use one, I never drive faster than 110km/h

That sounds ideal for adding a Kammback, or even a boattail.
The Kamm I made for my previous Pug307sw reduced fuel consumption by 7-8% in the 70-100 km/h range, based on testing at a steady speed.
But that gain almost doubled, because better aero allowed for much longer coasting between pulses. If you have long but not steep downhills, you may also want to add an engine kill switch to save more while coasting.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 05-10-2022 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667691)
I will go for narrower tires asap

Some folks who often are not really good drivers are fooled to believe a much wider tire may save their arses, as if they were driving a race car on the streets and really needed all that drag, yet sometimes a narrower tire may actually be better to prevent issues such as aquaplaning.

MorvanBen 05-12-2022 07:47 AM

I'm afraid I can't lower that much my cx (cd in the US?).
Got .35, maybe I can improve a bit the airflow with a blocked grill, narrow tires, maybe I can search in fiat parts if I can put some other side mirrors (mines look like truck mirrors! :O )
I can work on the air flow underneath the car, but for the car body itself, because of it's "box" design, I'm afraid I can't do that much
https://www.netcarshow.com/Fiat-Mult...004-800-2b.jpg

t vago 05-12-2022 08:35 AM

4 Attachment(s)
First, welcome aboard!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667951)
I'm afraid I can't lower that much my cx (cd in the US?).
Got .35, maybe I can improve a bit the airflow with a blocked grill, narrow tires, maybe I can search in fiat parts if I can put some other side mirrors (mines look like truck mirrors! :O )
I can work on the air flow underneath the car,

Second, there is a lot of things one could do with modifying the underbody air flow. I've been looking for this for my Opel Zafira this morning. Found this image in this forum, for instance. Mercedes apparently did a lot of research into making their CLA class more aerodynamic. So I found the original image

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...psesr8lc7n.jpg

on the intertubes, and then did close-ups of the parts I found interesting and screen-shotted them.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1652354900
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1652354900
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1652354900
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1652354900

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667951)
but for the car body itself, because of it's "box" design, I'm afraid I can't do that much

I'm going to look at making some sort of rear spoiler, like this one

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...3&d=1249305168

redneck 05-12-2022 09:22 AM

.

Welcome.

The first thing you need to do if you do not already have one is to purchase a instant mpg gauge so you can see what’s happening as you drive in real time. There are several you can choose from “ultra gauge”, “scan gauge” and or several apps such as “torque”.

Your biggest gains will come from adjusting the nut behind the wheel. Start working on that immediately. That way as other improvements are added, they will be amplified.

Suggested reading.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyper...ecodriving.php


Then move on to improving to your vehicle.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-eco...ifications.php


Again, welcome.

Have a great day...


:turtle:

>

.

Piwoslaw 05-12-2022 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667951)

That is a greenhouse on wheels! Must get hot in there on sunny days...

As for aero - yes, replace those huge side mirrors! Or at least fold the passenger side mirror.
*Local laws may vary.

Not sure whether you would like to your hand at a hitch-mounted boattail? With the Multipla's shape a boattail could easily improve fuel consumption by at least 15-20%.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1312621634
More here:
DIY hitch-mounted boat tail on Audi A2 3L (photos)
and
My Aerotail on Audi A2

MorvanBen 05-12-2022 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneck (Post 667953)
.

Welcome.

The first thing you need to do if you do not already have one is to purchase a instant mpg gauge so you can see what’s happening as you drive in real time. There are several you can choose from “ultra gauge”, “scan gauge” and or several apps such as “torque”.

Your biggest gains will come from adjusting the nut behind the wheel. Start working on that immediately. That way as other improvements are added, they will be amplified.

Suggested reading.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyper...ecodriving.php


Then move on to improving to your vehicle.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-eco...ifications.php


Again, welcome.

Have a great day...


:turtle:

>

.

I'm working A LOT on the nut behind the wheel, I've been reading this link few hours before you shared it. I learned few thinks that I wanna try like the pulse and glide technic.

I already have Torque Pro, I used it for OBD2 reading mostly and for some complex diagnosis where I needed to go deeper on data. I downloaded the "better dash" add on, I hope it will be a lazy way to improve my skills. If not then I'll make my own dashboards on Torque

MorvanBen 05-12-2022 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piwoslaw (Post 667972)
That is a greenhouse on wheels! Must get hot in there on sunny days...

As for aero - yes, replace those huge side mirrors! Or at least fold the passenger side mirror.
*Local laws may vary.

Not sure whether you would like to your hand at a hitch-mounted boattail? With the Multipla's shape a boattail could easily improve fuel consumption by at least 15-20%.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...4&d=1312621634
More here:
DIY hitch-mounted boat tail on Audi A2 3L (photos)
and
My Aerotail on Audi A2

I know that aero is very important but I don't feel comfortable to modify my car as long as I can't really measure the improvement ( or regression...)

The regular A2 has a .28 cx and the A2 3l 1.2 TDI a .25cx
Best cars ever made have a .19cx and in order to do that the need to do like super precise things, using high tech tools to check if they are right or wrong, like wind tunnels and stuff.

As long as I am not an aerodynamics ingeneer, I have a high probability of chance to degrade my actual CX, even if the technics I use seems to be fuel efficient

Piwoslaw 05-12-2022 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorvanBen (Post 667974)
I know that aero is very important but I don't feel comfortable to modify my car as long as I can't really measure the improvement ( or regression...)
[...]
As long as I am not an aerodynamics ingeneer, I have a high probability of chance to degrade my actual CX, even if the technics I use seems to be fuel efficient

But that is what the Ecomodder community is for - to support you:)

freebeard 05-12-2022 05:56 PM

I wouldn't be concerned whether it helps or not as long as it looks good doing it. :)


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