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DifferentPointofView 12-25-2007 11:16 PM

New Ideas for The Eco-Wall
 
Okay, so normally I would ask for some suggestions on how to help improve my aero, but I've decided to do it differently. I'm gonna ask you what YOU'D do to it and I'll collect my ideas from there on.

So you have my vehicle, A 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ) with a stock Cd of .44, and you want to do some DIY stuff that you can easily take off and make the vehicle back to stock whenever you want to. It's 2wd, and, has some weight in the back that you cannot remove (my audio equipment). Not much done, just removed roof racks, inflated tires up to max(actually a lil over), and a few more things (everything listed in EM Garage).

What would you do?

Peakster 12-26-2007 12:30 AM

I was real close to buying a red Jeep GC like yours 1.5 years ago instead of the Geo, so I can totally relate with you mean when you say you want to keep your Jeep and get good FE too.

If I bought that Jeep instead of the Geo and found this website somehow I'd:

- add a grille block from inside the engine bay
- somehow lower the Jeep a few inches (since lowering a vehicle has a significant improvement in Cd.)

And yeah, that's about it since you already got rid of the roof rack and upped the psi.

*Jealous of Jeep*

When are you going to start your gaslog??

Lazarus 12-26-2007 12:41 AM

You got some great ideas in your garage. I agree with Peakster. Grill block, and a front belly pan right away and work on the rest of the undertray later. If you can drive without it a mirror delete or at least on the passenger side and some kind of rear wheel skirts. Might also consider a higer temp t-stat. Did you get the vacuum gage? If not I would put one in.

popimp 12-26-2007 03:35 AM

I think we need to see some gas logs so we can gauge any improvements on the mods that you make.

MetroMPG 12-26-2007 01:55 PM

A few thoughts:

1) I'm with popimp: recording your fuel consumption has to be the very first step.

2) next most important step: install efficiency instrumentation of some kind to hone your driving technique.

3) I'd also consider a block heater or 120v interior space heater, so you can stop idling the Jeep to warm it up.

4) Look at the latest crop of GM SUV's: they all have significant air dams below the front bumpers. You could make a removable one so you can still have your approach angle for playing in the mud.



MetroMPG 12-26-2007 01:57 PM

Oh and ...

5) A muzzle for your brother so he can't bug you about your efficient driving techniques. :p

trebuchet03 12-26-2007 03:36 PM

The whole removable part is so tricky :p

On the far extreme side of things.... Get a new tailgate and install a boat tail to that (on top of air dam and such). When you want to switch back - change back to the stock (unmodified) tailgate :)

MetroMPG 12-26-2007 03:40 PM

Could also build a semi-boat tail on a strap-mounted bike rack. (Or just use the bike rack attachment method for ideas to make your own approach).

trebuchet03 12-26-2007 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 3102)
Could also build a semi-boat tail on a strap-mounted bike rack. (Or just use the bike rack attachment method for ideas to make your own approach).

Yeah Totally - I think I eluded to something like that on some other forum :p Perhaps it's time to give it another shot :)

MetroMPG 12-26-2007 10:35 PM

I've had a Flea-sized hatchback rack hanging on a hook in the garage for a couple of years. But I'm betting - by the pace my own mods get done - someone else is going to do it first :)

DifferentPointofView 12-26-2007 11:22 PM

Quote:

- somehow lower the Jeep a few inches (since lowering a vehicle has a significant improvement in Cd.)
Uh.. that ain't happening. Sorry, but I'm all into the whole Ecomodding thing a whole bunch but, lowing a Jeep is like neutering a very large dog. Jeeps and dogs are alike. They become mans best friend :D Good suggestion tho.

Quote:

When are you going to start your gaslog??
Just filled up today. So.. Whenever I fill up next is the start of the gaslog I guess?

Quote:

Grill block, and a front belly pan right away and work on the rest of the undertray later.
I just did a grille block today actually. And... it seems to be working wonderfully. I noticed it right away. I took the whole family out, and the rpms dropped about 100rpm, despite having 4 people in, and using stap-on-the-headrest dvd players. I used duct tape because it is gray like the plastic on the bumpers, and it won't deteriorate like cardboard would. If you'll notice in this pic (if it's too big please resize) that there is 2 grilles, and I taped off the lower one. It is at an angle for a better approach on those dips I hit on a daily basis. It seems to work, and a lot better than I expected (all other aero mods seem to disappoint). If you can't see it turn up the brightness or down on the contrast to see.

Soon I'll get a pic of what the grille block looks like, this I guess you could say is a "before" pic V

http://a877.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...b1d00d45f4.jpg

Quote:

a front belly pan right away
Yea, I was thinking about that. How to start it off tho? and how far should I go? What should it be made of?
Quote:

Might also consider a higher temp t-stat
When I bought the vehicle, the old t-stat was going haywire, so I replaced it. Not sure how hot it is, but it was a pain in the you know what because you need a specially bent tool to reach it.
Quote:

Did you get the vacuum gage?
Nope, not yet, do you know of any stores that carry them(less use of the credit card/debit card over the internet).
Quote:

I think we need to see some gas logs so we can gauge any improvements on the mods that you make.
Working on it ;)
Quote:

I'd also consider a block heater or 120v interior space heater
Once again, where do I get one? and how exactly do I use it, does it plug into an outlet?(I can tell with the 120v one you do). Do I hook it up to a coolant line?
Quote:

Look at the latest crop of GM SUV's: they all have significant air dams below the front bumpers. You could make a removable one so you can still have your approach angle for playing in the mud.
Just goes to show everything is not for the utility part, but for the let's go to the gas station to get krispy kreme donuts and some gum vehicles. That part would be hard. and I'd tear it up anyway on the way to school from the potholes in the cobblestone roads.
Quote:

Get a new tailgate and install a boat tail to that (on top of air dam and such).
Why get a new tailgate when I could just use the torx screw mounts that the roof racks used to be mounted on? I could use flat metal pieces and clear plastic to make a kammback, attaching the flat metal to the last screw holes and going down the rear of the vehicle. Easy removal, unscrew and it's like normal.

Tomorrow I'm changing the oil because I'm a little over do and I've got the oil, It's Mobil 1 5w-30 Truck and SUV Full Syn motor oil. I also got a can of sea foam to try and help get out whatever gunk and sludge, water or whatev that has built up in the crank case and cylinders, and valves. I've used Sea foam before in my fuel and unlike everything else it seems to really work. swiped those injectors clean. Last oil I used was Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-30 Full Syn motor oil and helped oil burn off quite good.

Previous owners didn't know squat about maintaining a vehicle. I bought the thing with no oil on the dipstick, had 7500 miles since the last oil change, really low coolant, failing t-stat, really low refrigerant level, Spark plugs with almost no electrode with a gap double of what it's supposed to be. A fuel filter so clogged the fuel went in clear and came out black. a leaking differential, tranny fluid that hadn't been changed in centuries, and lots of other things I don't wanna bore you with.

brucepick 12-27-2007 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView (Post 3130)
I'd also consider a block heater or 120v interior space heater

Once again, where do I get one? and how exactly do I use it, does it plug into an outlet?(I can tell with the 120v one you do). Do I hook it up to a coolant line?...

Yes they're 120V. No way will a car battery have the ability to warm up the block. Calcs have already been done (cleanmpg.com, I think) to prove that the cost of electricity to run it is less than the cost of the gas you save. Burning fuel to heat the block is pretty costly - and that's exactly what we all do every time we start a cold engine. I've seen posts from people using them year round. Engine goes into closed loop operation almost immediately and has all the benefits of being warmed up, right from the get-go.

You can ask at a Jeep dealer. I wouldn't be surprised if they can get them.

I'm pretty sure jcwhitney.com sells 'em, or buy from a real parts store. I wouldn't expect the "big box" parts stores to stock them but traditional parts stores, yes. In my area we have NAPA, CarQuest, BumperToBumper - those guys.

The good block heaters are the ones that install into a freeze plug opening. Heater replaces the freeze plug. Reason is, that lets the heater warm up the main body of coolant in the block. The heat disperses well into the block to warm it throughout. I think that's the type that's most common up in northern US and Canada where lots of people have block heaters.

Another type installs into the heater hose. It needs some circulation to carry the heat to the engine. Probably easier to install but a more complex design and concept. If there's no pump in the heater unit then it's relying on convection to carry the heat to the block - not the best way.

Least successful are the ones that heat the oil. Some by a heater pad glued to the oil pan, some by a heater built into a substitute dipstick. Aside from problems when you drive away with a 120V cord in your dipstick, these don't really heat the block, just the oil, so they can't accomplish as much preheating as the ones that heat the engine coolant.

trebuchet03 12-27-2007 11:51 AM

Quote:

had 7500 miles since the last oil change
Meh - that's young! <--- if there's any left in the crank case. I do 10K mile oil change intervals on dino oil - but have oil analysis done to make sure it's still good when it comes out :p Of course, this varies from engine to engine (even two "identical" engines :p)

Quote:

Just goes to show everything is not for the utility part, but for the let's go to the gas station to get krispy kreme donuts and some gum vehicles.
SUV's have always been more sport and less utility... And by sport - I mean sports less useful cousin, sporty...

Lazarus 12-27-2007 02:41 PM

Yea I agree that 7500 miles is really not that big a deal. In Europe they go lots farther then the marketing kings here at 3000 miles. No oil on the stick that not great.:eek:

On the front belly tray just attach it to the lower part of the front grill and go back to the end of the engine bay. There's lots of choices to use. I think cloroplast is the favorite. It's the stuff campaign signs are made of.

A vacuum gauge can be bought at any auto parts store and probably at wal mart. Search the web you'll find all kinds of stuff.

DifferentPointofView 12-28-2007 01:28 PM

Quote:

Meh - that's young! <--- if there's any left in the crank case. I do 10K mile oil change intervals on dino oil - but have oil analysis done to make sure it's still good when it comes out Of course, this varies from engine to engine (even two "identical" engines )
Quote:

Yea I agree that 7500 miles is really not that big a deal. In Europe they go lots farther then the marketing kings here at 3000 miles. No oil on the stick that not great.
So I did the oil change yesterday and, you won't believe what came out of it. Just chunks and chunks of sludge and old oil that looked like metal flakes but when I picked it up it was just crap from oil bi-products.

You guys probably don't know what conditions I drive in. But it's not pretty. I live in a place not even big enough to be called a town so it's actually a village. Only the in town stuff is paved and it's paved by laying down tar, rocks, tar, then rocks again. The rest of the roads are gravel/dirt/mud roads. Everything is dusty and full of chemicals from the power plant and whatever the farmers decide to use nowadays. My whole engine bay is light brown and muddy now. It's not regular conditions and it definitely files under the "change every 3000 miles or so" maintenance schedule. And looking at who maintained the Jeep before me.. really didn't maintain it at all. Fuel isn't supposed to be black when it comes OUT of the fuel filter, and spark plugs aren't supposed to look like they just went into a volcano and back. If I had the vehicle the whole time. I'd probably go with longer intervals, but the vehicle is a little rough right now and needs to be maintained at the best right now. Oil change went well tho, I was kinda surprised and not surprised of what came out of there. Runs easier now, especially since it's cold.

Quote:

I'm pretty sure jcwhitney.com sells 'em, or buy from a real parts store. I wouldn't expect the "big box" parts stores to stock them but traditional parts stores, yes. In my area we have NAPA, CarQuest, BumperToBumper - those guys.
Alright, I'll do a search on that now. I went to Walmart to search for a vacuum guage and had no luck, but I'll check the parts stores and see what they've got.

Cloroplast.. isn't that something in plants? :D That should be in hobby stores or something right? in any event I could get something temporary for the moment.

Lazarus 12-28-2007 02:25 PM

Quote:

So I did the oil change yesterday and, you won't believe what came out of it. Just chunks and chunks of sludge and old oil that looked like metal flakes but when I picked it up it was just crap from oil bi-products.
You could try Auto-RX. Never used it but have heard goods things about it.

If you have a sign shop around you could probably get the coroplast from them.

DifferentPointofView 12-28-2007 02:35 PM

I've found a vacuum gauge that isn't all that much cash, but I think I'll need a tubing kit. Sunpro makes a tubing kit, it should work with the tubing kit right? unless they design their stuff differently. Does anyone know if they will go together?

EDIT: WOW I'm blind, I looked back at a post about a vacuum gauge and Lazarus posted the exact link to what I was looking for above. I'm blind, :rolleyes:

Peakster 12-28-2007 11:17 PM

Don't the Jeep Grand Cherokees come with an instant fuel economy meter mounted on the interior roof, just above the rearview mirror? The ones I've test drove did and even the Quadra-Trac Laredo with the inline 4.0L I drove was reading 30 mpg(imp) at 55-mph.

DifferentPointofView 12-28-2007 11:45 PM

No, That was an option. I didn't have one when I bought it, that was an overhead console option that apparently was not picked, along with 4wd (who buys a Jeep and DOESN'T get the 4wd? Only people who go and get groceries with it that's who.)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...78_19_full.jpg

Here's a pic of the day, or the day after I first bought it. As you can see, there is no overhead console (or subwoofers). If only they had bought it with the instrumentation *sigh*.

DifferentPointofView 12-29-2007 12:55 AM

I've found some block heaters, but I can't quite find out what size I need. It's an AMC I6 engine, so if that helps any..

popimp 12-29-2007 02:19 AM

Your best bet would be to call a Jeep Dealer and get the part #. The use the part # to search online.

DifferentPointofView 12-29-2007 01:20 PM

I'll do that :thumbup:

DifferentPointofView 12-31-2007 06:45 PM

Ok, so I got pics of the grille block, removed roof racks, and I recently washed the Jeep! Well, here's some pics

Grille block after about a week, kinda weather worn, it's been through about a week and in the rain but it's still on there.

http://a163.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...dc01e819c2.jpg

Upper grill, slight block, and I tried to smooth the air by using duct tape on the license plate holder/cover on the brick wall bumper.

http://a613.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...ddd57e752c.jpg

Roof rack Delete
http://a962.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...0311fdd379.jpg

Another shot
http://a25.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/...453c931608.jpg

Before the wash, i rinsed off the caked stuff the week before
http://a91.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/...dd0d2dd392.jpg

After
http://a244.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...91dacb6a8b.jpg

Another
http://a661.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...2429f4b36c.jpg


For some reason the camera made the color of the Jeep more pink and bright than it is in person, Good thing with the duct tape grille block is in order to see it actually bent and weather worn you have to get under the Jeep like I did with the camera, up close it just looks like duct tape, and from everywhere else it looks like I used paint to 2 tone it. Won't last forever tho.. The license plate duct tape fell off from washing :(


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