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Old 01-05-2023, 10:19 AM   #71 (permalink)
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grown

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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Is there any factual reason for the newer Prius to have grown in width and lenght? Well, it may not be much of an aerodynamic penalty regarding lenght, but width often may lead to some aerodynamic penalty.
1) the increased width will be compensated for by the increased length. We could compare ratios.
2) lowering the overall height, while increasing length will be a fineness ratio advantage over the outgoing model. Another ratio comparison.
3) Increased shoulder room, or side crash crumple zone may have been a committee priority.

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Old 01-05-2023, 10:53 AM   #72 (permalink)
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'battery'

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Originally Posted by Phase View Post
They just say the new combined mpg is 57 for the new Prius. If it had more drag, I wonder if the highway mpg is even worse now than the last prius, but the city driving had gone up into the 60s because of the better battery?
If the battery has more capacity, the car can stay in 'electric-only' mode longer, and at 350% BSFC-e advantage, pushing the EPA CITY numbers up for sure.
If lower rolling resistance tires are now used, they'd help compensate for increased HWY aero drag.
Maybe Prius buyers don't put numbers under a microscope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* ' Forget it, all we want to see is conventional silhouettes: streamlining is dead. No one will ever buy it.' ( Re. Chrysler Airflow )
Walter P. Chrysler, Chrysler Corporation, 1937.
* ' We're not about to make the world's most aero vehicle that no one will buy.' ( Chrysler Aiflow )
Rick Aneiras, Vice President, Chrysler Group, Daimler-Chrysler, 2010.
* ' Look, it doesn't matter how great your aerodynamics are if only ten people buy the car.'
Suzy Cody, Director, General Motors Performance Division, 2018.
* ' the drag coefficient is not a significant criterion for customer decision making.' ( Re. GAC ENO.146 )
Jiri Opletel, CarNewsChina.com, May 26, 2021.
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Old 01-05-2023, 10:58 AM   #73 (permalink)
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' air viscosity vs drag '

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Originally Posted by Nathan jones View Post
For it to handle at speed, ride height had to be lowered and downforce increased. Reducing the air viscosity will increase total drag and lower mpg. Sports cars are sports cars and eco cars are eco cars, there is no in between.

Increased battery transfer efficiency will not counter by a very long way

Also likely won't have boron steel chassis like the first two models which they lost money on
There IS a context in which I'd agree, however, I'm certain that it's not something we could ever experience in the actual world.
Would you mind expanding on that premise?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-05-2023, 11:09 AM   #74 (permalink)
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'Karmann-Ghia'

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Originally Posted by Nathan jones View Post
Karmann Ghia .37 with the windows up. Rather hideous for it's frontal. There are no exceptions

The new prius is not being sold in the uk at all. Most users here are keeping the old ones. 4-10k a pop
Hucho places the cabriolet Karmann-Ghia 'economy car', with top up, at Cd 0.38.
The 1965 Porsche 911 'sport car', of same frontal area was Cd 0.4239, according to Dr. Hermann Burst, Porsche's chief aerodynamicist.
Horsepower for horsepower, the Karmann-Ghia would out-perform the 911 in certain comparisons ( top speed, fuel economy ).
This might be an exception that proves the rule.
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Old 01-05-2023, 11:20 AM   #75 (permalink)
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'more sporty'

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Originally Posted by Blacktree View Post
There absolutely is an in between. I would even argue that sporty vs efficient is a false dichotomy. Especially considering that making a car more efficient can also make it more sporty.

It seems Toyota have decided to make the Prius a little sportier (or at least look sportier), to attract more buyers. Considering the waning Prius sales, you can't blame them for changing things up.
I'd consider the 1993, GM Impact/ EV1, land speed record car, at 183-mph to qualify as a candidate in this regard.
All-up mass, frontal area, Cd, R-R coefficient, and available horsepower would constitute the test envelope.
And we know from NASCAR / Bonneville back-yo-back comparisons, that the Impact/ EV1, without the curve-resistance of the Fort Stockton oval track, would demonstrate a terminal velocity well in excess of 183-mph in a straight line contest.
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Old 01-05-2023, 11:28 AM   #76 (permalink)
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'birds'

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Originally Posted by Nathan jones View Post
Think like birds, a Pidgeon cannot glide on thermals and a buzzard cannot chase cars. Same thing but birds are not made of iron and plastic lol
The highest performance car would be a half-body, based on the Peregrine ( pair-of-grins ) falcon or Gentoo penguin. Which have already run at Bonneville.
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Old 01-05-2023, 11:37 AM   #77 (permalink)
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'sports car'

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Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
I would have to add that the fiero got 50 mpg when the speed limit was 55 mph. Its a little bit mixed now but the speed limit on average is 75 mph now here in the USA.
Also I would just add the fiero had fooled people into thinking it was a sports car, but i don't really recall the standards for the time. It was a rough time to be a sports car lol.
From what I've heard from normal people in the real world they won't drive a prius because they are slow as balls and look like balls.
So if it was like standard old v6 accord quick without wringing it out like a rag 24/7 and looks good enough to make people actually think about buying it, i think their design and sales goals have been met. For the most part as long as toyota improved on the reliability and still gets 50s that would be awesome.
Somewhere along my journey, some messenger reported that a 'sport car' ( as defined by Ken Miles ) would fit the criteria when a certain pounds/ horsepower threshold was met.
They would compete in motorsports, either as dedicated race cars, or homologation specials ( which could also be driven legally on the 'street' ).
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Old 01-05-2023, 01:22 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
I would have to add that the fiero got 50 mpg when the speed limit was 55 mph. Its a little bit mixed now but the speed limit on average is 75 mph now here in the USA.
Also I would just add the fiero had fooled people into thinking it was a sports car, but i don't really recall the standards for the time.
This is a little off topic, but...

I was a Fiero owner for many years. It's not a true sports car. But it did blur the lines between econoboxes and sporty 2-seaters. With the Fiero, you could get a little of both.

The Fieros weren't very fast in a straight line, but the handling was pretty good. And that made the car feel sporty. Also, the 4-cyl with a manual gearbox could get 40+ mpg.

IMO, the Fiero was a good "starter car". It was good on gas (especially the 4-cyl). It wasn't very expensive. And it was fairly easy to maintain. Plus the handling made it fun to drive. So you didn't feel like you were driving an econobox.

Edit to add: The Fiero also didn't have a backseat to "get busy" in. For some parents, that was actually a consideration.
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Old 01-05-2023, 01:30 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacktree View Post
This is a little off topic, but...

I was a Fiero owner for many years. It's not a true sports car. But it did blur the lines between econoboxes and sporty 2-seaters. With the Fiero, you could get a little of both.

The Fieros weren't very fast in a straight line, but the handling was pretty good. And that made the car feel sporty. Also, the 4-cyl with a manual gearbox could get 40+ mpg.

IMO, the Fiero was a good "starter car". It was good on gas (especially the 4-cyl). It wasn't very expensive. And it was fairly easy to maintain. Plus the handling made it fun to drive. So you didn't feel like you were driving an econobox.
Makes me wish they wouldn't have used a god awful subaru engine in the Toyota86/scion etc... If they would've used like anything else at all i could've seen it getting 40+ as well. Oh well.
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Old 01-05-2023, 04:59 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
If the battery has more capacity, the car can stay in 'electric-only' mode longer, and at 350% BSFC-e advantage, pushing the EPA CITY numbers up for sure.
If lower rolling resistance tires are now used, they'd help compensate for increased HWY aero drag.
Maybe Prius buyers don't put numbers under a microscope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* ' Forget it, all we want to see is conventional silhouettes: streamlining is dead. No one will ever buy it.' ( Re. Chrysler Airflow )
Walter P. Chrysler, Chrysler Corporation, 1937.
* ' We're not about to make the world's most aero vehicle that no one will buy.' ( Chrysler Aiflow )
Rick Aneiras, Vice President, Chrysler Group, Daimler-Chrysler, 2010.
* ' Look, it doesn't matter how great your aerodynamics are if only ten people buy the car.'
Suzy Cody, Director, General Motors Performance Division, 2018.
* ' the drag coefficient is not a significant criterion for customer decision making.' ( Re. GAC ENO.146 )
Jiri Opletel, CarNewsChina.com, May 26, 2021.
ah yes, chrysler, such a great car company and business. totally not like that company failed and is an outdated name haha.

i remember when people told elon musk that tesla making some of the lowest drag cars in the mass market would never work out or sell... wonder how thats working out

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