EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   EcoModding Central (https://ecomodder.com/forum/ecomodding-central.html)
-   -   New study shows 0 impact of a clogged air filter on fuel injected cars (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/new-study-shows-0-impact-clogged-air-filter-12590.html)

tangomar 03-11-2010 08:21 PM

New study shows 0 impact of a clogged air filter on fuel injected cars
 
From EPA site:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/...02_26_2009.pdf

It was instead (obviously) on carburetor cars.

dremd 03-11-2010 09:21 PM

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
I've been telling people this for years, and they have been telling me I'm wrong for years citing those cards on parts counters as evidence that I am wrong.

Christ 03-11-2010 10:14 PM

I always thought this was mostly obvious...

It's the reason I don't change my air filter, or just don't use one (instead, I use a T-shirt.)

AeroModder 03-16-2010 10:45 PM

Quote:

The simulated clogged filter significantly affected vehicle performance, increasing the time to accelerate from 20 to 80 mph by 0.6 to 1.7 seconds on the three vehicles. The Outlet DP measured for each vehicle was sufficient for setting a common air filter indicator to the “change” or “clogged” position. For each vehicle, the Outlet DP at some point exceeded 5 kPa and showed an increase over the clean filter in excess of 2.5 kPa, a common standard for defining a dirty air filter.5,9–11
Despite the filter restrictions, however, no significant changes in fuel economy were observed. Each vehicle was run through at least three rounds of FTP, HFET, and US06 tests with the new air filter, and the same protocol was repeated with the clogged air filter. The tests were conducted on consecutive days for each vehicle. This format was used to allow for the required soak time to perform a cold FTP each morning. The resulting fuel economy data for the vehicles are shown in Figs. 3.8, 3.9, and 3.10. Range bars in the figures show the minimum and maximum of the tests for each case, while the columns show the average. Test-to-test repeatability is within about 1.5%, and all of the variances between the new and clogged air filter cases are similarly within about 1.7%. The baseline fuel economies for the vehicles were all within 0–6% of unadjusted EPA certification database values (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) for similar vehicles.
Summary: In fuel injected cars, a computer monitors the air/fuel ratio and puts in less gas when you get less air, so FE isn't harmed, but performance is.

In carburated cars, a clogged filter alters the air/fuel ratio and degrades both performance and economy.

gone-ot 03-16-2010 11:02 PM

...ain't it wonderful that computers are able to "correct & compensate" for lazy car owners (wink,wink)?

doviatt 03-17-2010 11:06 AM

So, does this also have a corollary effect on the discussions of ram air, and warm air induction?

Jyden 03-17-2010 11:49 AM

This would only be true for non turbo gas engines I belive. So keep your airfilter on your diesel og turbo car in good shape - clean that is!

tasdrouille 03-17-2010 12:51 PM

negative boost is negative boost, regardless of the engine type. The only difference is the carbed cars don't dynamically adjust fueling, that's all.

All this study is saying in the end is that even if your filter is clogged, the negative boost is never enough to have a significant impact on fuel economy when driven in normal conditions. A free flowing filter is always better, but so marginally better it's insignificant. Ram air reduces, and can even negate, negative boost, but again it's not much significant under normal driving conditions. WAI has ramifications in the combustion process itself so it's not just about negative boost in that case.

Organic-Mechanix.com 03-20-2010 02:22 PM

This makes perfect sense--The AFM only measures that comes into the unit through the filter, clogged or not. The fuel trims will adjust for the airflow and not be effected by the restriction before the monitoring device.

gone-ot 03-20-2010 02:26 PM

...of course, all this "adjustment" is predicated upon the precision of the incoming measurement(s)...which are usually "close enough" at their design-center, but certainly NOT so at the edges/limits of their operating "ranges."

...Flex-Fuel vehicles, with their much WIDER-range sensors and computer algorithms, will probably be affected by this much LESS than the remaining 85% of the cars on the road (pun intended).

mcrews 03-16-2014 06:14 PM

bump

pjbgravely 04-10-2014 04:26 PM

Not true, a completely plugged air filter will result in 0 MPG, as in the engine will no longer run.

If it is removed it will result in the same 0 MPG from the engine dieing of sludge.

ptjones 04-10-2014 05:29 PM

dirty air filter
 
I thought that ICE is an air pump and if it has to work harder to suck air through it will take a little more energy to accomplish this. apparently not a lot.:)

Paul

vskid3 04-10-2014 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptjones (Post 419626)
I thought that ICE is an air pump and if it has to work harder to suck air through it will take a little more energy to accomplish this. apparently not a lot.:)

Paul

The throttle plate is still the biggest restriction unless you floor it, which is why there's a reduction in peak power.

mcrews 04-10-2014 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjbgravely (Post 419620)
Not true, a completely plugged air filter will result in 0 MPG, as in the engine will no longer run.

If it is removed it will result in the same 0 MPG from the engine dieing of sludge.

Read the article, then post... :rolleyes: ..works better that way

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 04-11-2014 05:48 AM

I'm not really willing to use this as an excuse to neglect maintenance...

pjbgravely 04-11-2014 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrews (Post 419649)
Read the article, then post... :rolleyes: ..works better that way

Huh?

The article studied putting show towels over the air filters to simulate a plugged filter to see the effect on MPG. In the real world the filter will either eventually become completely plugged so the engine will no longer run, or the filter will collapse under the vacuum and the engine will slowly fill up with dirt until it no longer runs. Both will result in 0 MPG.

I have seen both, the filter plugging is the easiest fix. Working on a sludge engine is horrible.

If you are saying that this studies says your Otto cycle internal combustion engine no longer needs oxygen to burn fuel then you had better reread the study yourself.

ecomodded 04-11-2014 07:57 PM

I to have thought that a restricted intake would increase mpg , I think that's why my vw tdi gets such great mileage, it has 225,000km on it and the 1.9 tdi is notorious for clogging its intake from the EGR.
In effect lowering the cars hp and subsequently the fuel consumption as the cars computer always maintain a clean burn threw the fuel injectors.

I expect when and if I clean my intakes filth out my hp will increase and economy will decrease, unless i can drive like a saint 100% of the time.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 04-12-2014 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecomodded (Post 419768)
I to have thought that a restricted intake would increase mpg , I think that's why my vw tdi gets such great mileage, it has 225,000km on it and the 1.9 tdi is notorious for clogging its intake from the EGR.
In effect lowering the cars hp and subsequently the fuel consumption as the cars computer always maintain a clean burn threw the fuel injectors.

I expect when and if I clean my intakes filth out my hp will increase and economy will decrease, unless i can drive like a saint 100% of the time.

But Diesels tend to run leaner, so the clogging at the intake might make it just roll a little more coal instead of improving the fuel-efficiency, plus at a certain point you'd have to keep the RPM higher to get a certain amount of power...

mcrews 05-04-2016 10:07 AM

bump

Baltothewolf 05-05-2016 01:48 AM

I don't care what anyone says, but a Clogged air filter is not good for your car.

oil pan 4 05-05-2016 02:27 AM

The worse thing is called media migration. That's where vibration or filter ware just causes chunks of dirt packed filter media to break free and be ingested by the engine.

oldtamiyaphile 05-05-2016 05:32 AM

If the engine looses power, there's going to be a point where you need to floor it more often, that means fuel enrichment and worse MPG.

vskid3 05-05-2016 09:06 AM

I think some people are taking the term "clogged" too literally. There's a difference between having a sandbox in your airbox and going an extra 10k miles between air filter changes (I'm sure many quick lube shops would love for you to replace it with every oil change). The biggest take away for me is that freer flowing filters like K&N are very unlikely to increase your mileage, so you might as well stick with the OEM filter.

Xist 05-05-2016 10:57 AM

Very unlikely to increase mileage, but guaranteed to allow more stuff into your engine.

Baltothewolf 05-06-2016 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 513456)
Very unlikely to increase mileage, but guaranteed to allow more stuff into your engine.

Oh please :rolleyes:

oil pan 4 05-06-2016 01:44 AM

On bitog forum vehicles with K&N type filters tend to have 3 to 5 times the Si content in the oil as compared to paper filter vehicles. Used oil analysis tests after using paper then K&N and back to paper air filter tests have been done.

If you are a stupid redneck or ricer kid that blows up their vehicles engine every 20,000m or less then K&N is perfect for you.
If you want to keep your engine going past 100,000 miles or have a turbocharger then use paper.
If you drive in a dusty environment use paper.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 05-06-2016 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile (Post 513439)
If the engine looses power, there's going to be a point where you need to floor it more often, that means fuel enrichment and worse MPG.

And frequent over-revving also increases overall wear and tear of the engine in the long run.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com