New winter beater: base 2004 Toyota Echo vs. base 1998 Pontiac Firefly (Geo Metro)
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1461594648


So if you follow the Efficient, cheap beaters! Used car ads thread, you know I just picked up this cheap 2004 Toyota Echo. It's going to be next winter's beater car.

And it's the base model. Base, base, BASE!

How base? When I showed it to my dad he chuckled and said, "that's pretty... fundamental." Fundamental as in: no options. No A/C or power steering. It's pretty close to 1998 Firefly base.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1461608704

It immediately reminded me of the Firefly for its lack of amenities. And then it made me chuckle when I started noting the differences between them.

Things neither car has:

(Things that I bet most car shoppers today would not be OK without...)

• power steering (this surprised me in the Echo... in 2004??)
• air conditioning
• cruise control
• tachometer
• remote hatch release

Things the Echo has that the Firefly doesn't:

• ABS!
• tilt steering!
• dual (A & B) resettable trip odometers (Firefly: none)
• split/folding rear seat (Firefly: folds, but full width)
• cargo cover
• interior-adjustable (manual) side mirrors (Firefly: roll down the window to adjust)
• map lights!
• rear cargo light!
• switches on BOTH doors to turn on the dome light! (Firefly: only on driver's door)
• stowage cubbies galore!
• exterior/lockable hatchback "latch/button"! (Firefly: hatch access requires the key)
• audio (Firefly: came with nothing)
• power! (Over twice the Firefly's HP)

Things the Firefly has that the Echo doesn't

• temperature gauge
• top of class fuel economy (at the time)

Key specs:

• Engine: Echo: 1.5L, DOHC 16v, variable valve timing, 108 hp / 105 ft-lbs
• Firefly: 1.0L, SOHC, 6v, ~50 hp (XFi cam) / 58 ft-lbs

• Curb weight: Echo: 928 kg / 2046 lbs
• Firefly: 813 kg / 1792 lbs

EPA ratings:

• Echo: 30/38/33 (for the sedan 5-speed)
• Firefly: 36/44/40

Driving the Echo reminds me a lot of the base "$9998" 2015 Nissan Micra I got to test drive last year. Similar bare bones mission and power to weight ratio. (Although the 2004 Echo stickered at $14k twelve years ago.)



http://micra-forum.com/attachment.ph...4&d=1435153752

From: Review notes: 2015 Micra S 5-speed extended test-drive - Darin's thoughts - Micra-Forum.com

observed fuel economy
 

I have stats for both cars on the same 1-way route at the same cruising speed.

~100 km (~60 mi.), 80 km/h (50 mph) cruising speed (some DWL on hills if no following traffic, no more than +/-10 km/h), mild & dry conditions, negligible wind.

It's a scenic country route that includes several stops, passes through 3 towns/hamlets, with easy (EOC-friendly) sub/urban driving at the beginning & end.

Echo: 55 mpg US (not calibrated), bone stock (other than ~50 PSI)

Firefly: 73 mpg US, ecomodded

You're not going to bathe it in SALT?!?

I hear salt baths are soothing.

Based on these rocker panels, this car must feel VERY relaxed.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1461627811

UPDATE: rust repairs under way...
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ics-34525.html

Let the modifications begin. Looks like fun, the days of the Metros are fading fast. I ran them for 8 years, there is only one left in my family now.

That Echo should get better and better mileage as the body parts vaporize or fall off.

I was not able to keep up very well while at annual training. Did you sell the Civic?

I sold the Civic! Don't worry, you're only 2 cars behind. :)

Latest beaters:

- 2007 Civic (winter 2014/15)
- 2004 Prius (winter 2015/16)
- 2004 Echo (winter 2016/17)

The Echo is a fine little car. The low-hanging fruit is easy in this car but I believe it ultimately hits a wall going into 60+ territory. The really high numbers just won't be there.

In what type of driving?

It does have more than enough power for such a light "economy" car. That's going to hold things back for sure.

This one will get my usual suite of ecomods. I'll start a dedicated modding thread for it sometime.

Most of my driving has been suburban and freeway driving. More urban-ish use is not my Echo's strong suit, but I think my auto trans hits it twice as hard in those cases. I use very basic techniques and it has rewarded me with more MPG per time and effort than anything I have driven.

I agree it is perky. It's one of the first things which surprised and impressed me with this car.

Its light weight is its trump card. Load it down with 200 or more lbs of stuff and it starts to feel a bit flabby all the way around (power, suspension, and brakes), and the mileage suffers noticibly too.

Thanks for the info.

Out of curiosity: how close was your Ultragauge default to actual fuel consumption? Did you have to put in any calibration/offsets to reflect reality?

I'm seeing decent numbers from the uncalibrated ScanGauge (like the 50-55 MPG US trip bringing it home at 80 kph/50 mph), so I'm wondering how real it is.

Yes they are.

I'm to the point where I'm on the hunt for a rust-free (or as near as possible) twin for the '98 Firefly so I have a ready supply of parts. ... Actually I've been looking for a couple of years now.

With the Firefly kept from road salt, and given how little I drive, it should last pretty much forever. I think there's a pretty good chance I'll be driving it for several more decades. Or at least until they outlaw gasoline powered and/or human driven cars.

If memory serves, I think I had to calibrate it +13ish%? Not entirely sure. I'm a truck driver and several hundred miles from home :)

I was mistaken: I thought the car didn't have ABS, but it does.

I heard the funny "ABS getting ready" noise for the first time today a few seconds after starting it. Then confirmed by jumping on the whoa pedal on sand/gravel.

Huh. I didn't think the Echo's brakes were powerful enough to need ABS. I have clamped on the binders pretty hard a couple of times and it didn't seem anywhere near lockup.

Aside from the obvious differences, what are some of your other initial impressions of the Echo? Curious to see if some of my standouts and other observations line up with yours.

I actually just said to Tim: based on just 150 km of driving, I'm solidly impressed with the car. For 12 years old, it feels surprisingly tight. No squeaks or rattles.

If it's not premature to say, it's probably the 2nd best car I've ever owned after the 2007 Civic, in terms of build quality "feel" & mechanical condition. Touch wood.

Well, I intentionally stuck the right side on sand/gravel, left on asphalt when I jumped on the pedal. My previous pedal stab fully on asphalt didn't trigger it.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Bonus: timing chain is said to last the life of the car!

Ironically enough I found a couple of Metros with three bangers and stick the other day.

Anyway, good luck! Stick with it and I think you'll really like your "new" car.

It also has airbags and crumple zones, right?

I plan to never find out!

2 air bags.

60 MPG short fill
 

So the Echo's temporary permit expired yesterday.

When I brought it home I filled it to the brim -- fuel visible in the filler neck. I filled it to the brim again yesterday -- same pump, same level, facing same direction, same ambient temperature.

Calculations say 3.9 L/100 km = 60 mpg US after 151 km. That's with about 50% sub/urban driving & 50% rural highway driving (max. 50 mph limit). No engine off coasting (because the ScanGauge version I had in it doesn't do 9999 mpg with the engine off and I was trying to calibrate it).

While that looks good, I'm a little skeptical. The ScanGauge said 50 mpg US.

We'll have to wait to find out which number is closer to reality. The car's now parked until late fall.

I'd be a little skeptical too. Not that it's impossible to get 60mpg, but...yeah, it doesn't feel right to me either.

If I had been doing E-off-C instead of E-on-C, it would be easier to buy the 60 mpg figure.

Anyway, it's a mystery to be solved later.

Time now to finish testing the Prius mods, tidy it up & sell it.

Update: rust repairs
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1478736258

I started fixing the rocker panels. See:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ics-34525.html

Once that's done I'll take it in for the mandatory inspection before I can get it plated.

Failed inspection
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1479996069

With the rust repaired, the winter beater Echo is now at the mechanic's for its mandatory mechanical inspection and emissions test.

I had gone over it before taking it in - lights, tires, brakes (iffy - corrosion on the rotors), ball joints/tie rods, exhaust - and it looked passable to me.

It failed! For a mangled/deteriorated front control arm bushing. Oops! (I need to watch more closely for suspension bushings - last winter's beater Prius failed for the same reason.)

So yesterday I brought the car back home to fix it myself, but after eyeing the rusty control arm nuts & bolts I'd have to deal with, plus looking at the cold garage floor, I hopped back in and drove back to the shop: "You do it!"

My tolerance for DIY is getting pretty low with winter setting in.

---

Change of plans: it's going on the block sooner than later

With this month's unplanned fleet addition of Canada's cheapest, 50 mpg* Miata, I've decided to put the Echo up for sale as soon as it's licenced.

Too many vehicles! There's no more room at the inn. And I don't like to litter the manger with vehicles.

We'll see what happens.

RE: Skeptical MPG, what does the MILAGE calibration look like? Known?

Calibration is not known yet.

I haven't been driving the car since I picked it up in April and used it for a week and a half on the temporary permit.

But depending on whether it sells quickly or not, I may yet get that info.

Just heading to the shop now to pick it up and see how much I'm getting dinged for the inspections & bushing replacement.

OOPS, let me rephrase my question: Correct size tires installed? If not, they could account for the optimistically high MPG number.

Ah. Yes, tires are stock size.

on the road again
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1481127028

Echo is now legally plated, insured and on the road!

It's been for sale for a week, but so far all I've gotten are a few lowballs and a handful of inquiries that haven't translated into showings. Probably not the best time of year to be selling a car.

Fine with me - if it doesn't sell, I'll enjoy it until spring and re-list it then.

I'm quite interested to see what kind of mileage you get with this car.

Good news/bad news... sayonara, Echo!
 

The bad news is I won't be able to offer any more insight into Echo fuel economy.

The good news is the new owner just drove away in it. The fleet size has dropped by one - anti-hoarding in process!

Good guy, too - he'll definitely look after it. He said the very first thing on his list is to thoroughly rust treat it. Sounds like it'll last a long while in his care.

Last pic, moments ago:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1481311443

Red winter wheels/tires on, summers loaded into the back.

Sayonara, Echo! I hardly knew ya.

Love it in that shade of blue...too bad I couldn't buy it from ya!

You would have to be certifiably insane to buy an eastern (read: rust belt) car considering your location!

EDIT: yeah, I liked the colour too.

I now have a '98 Chev Metro. Now I will be paying more attention to Metro threads.

Started a thread on it?

OK