newbie in alachua, FL
 

hi all

i've just acquired a 2012 honda fit auto, which i plan to use for uber. i must say i'm not at all impressed with its fuel economy. the best figure i achieved on the freeway was 34, and a recent 300 mile roundtrip on freeway with two adults and two children with a/c on all the way holding a steady indicated 80 mph returned 30.9 mpg. on my morning paper route i've seen as low as 24. the combined average at the moment is a pitiful 26.

this is less than my 1996 honda civic 5-sp hatchback could achieve. considering the fit is 16 years younger with a smaller engine, variable valves, two plugs per cylinder, coil-on-plug ignition and who knows what else, this is unimpressive. there is something suspicious, since wikipedia lists the same car in UK, albeit with a 1400cc engine, getting 45 miles per US gallon.

it could be that US cars are set differently...probably to give more power at the expense of fuel consumption.

i plan some extensive mods.

1) first up is to install magnets on the fuel line and coolant hoses from magnetizerproducts

2) install fuel vaporizer agsvaporizermpg

3) install plasma ignition aquapulser

4) i'm also going to add bestline to the engine oil and fuel
bestlineproducts

5) i may try this acetone trick. youtube acetone in gas
i've found raceway sells ethanol-free fuel for 60 cents more per gal.

i'm keeping track of my mileage on fuelly

Welcome!

Those are some wicked sick mods to try out first! If you actually go through with any of that insanity, please try them one at a time so if you find that one out of those five works, I'll know which one. If you find one that blows up your car and doesn't kill you in the process, I'd also like to know which one that was so I can avoid it. If we never hear from you again, I'll stay away from all five.

You might want to consider starting modding with something a little cheaper and less intrusive, such as increasing your tire pressure to max sidewall, and making some changes to your driving habits and see how that helps.
Then, I would take the magnets and use them to hold the "65 Efficiency Mods" to your fridge so you can get acquainted with them. :thumbup:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

BTW, I passed right by Alachua on my way to Live Oak this weekend, it's pretty nice up there.

thnx for your interest. i've done the usual things...tire pressure at 40 psi, clean air filter, etc. i'm not particularly interested in driving for max economy. i don't do jack rabbit starts or heavy braking anyway. driving at 60 mph in the slow lane on the freeway will cause tailgating by the trucks who want to drive at 80.

i want to see if in fact it is possible to modify these engines to get measurably improved consumption. i'm looking for at least 25%, not 1 or 2%.

incidentally, i found this on wikipedia re the european fuel economy cycle. evidently the manufacturers are allowed to make these mods

Disconnect the alternator, thus no energy is used to recharge the battery;
Use special lubricants that are not used in production cars, in order to reduce friction; this is interesting. i plan to use special lubricant myself-- bestline.
Turn off all electrical gadgets i.e. Air Con/Radio;
Adjust brakes or even disconnect them to reduce friction;
Tape up cracks between body panels and windows to reduce air resistance;
Remove Wing mirrors.[33]

Welcome to Ecomodder Charlo49! I'm siding with cowmeat here. If you look over the website, you will find that all 5 of the mods you listed will be in a place called the Unicorn Corral 99% of the time. There has not been any A-B-A testing done to confirm their advertised gains, so they are considered baloney until proved otherwise.

I would start with the 2 links below. These are the mods that actually work, and most of them are free or easy on the wallet :) FWIW, I have increased my fuel economy 35% with utilizing only some of the mods!

65+ Vehicle modifications for better fuel economy - EcoModder.com

100+ Hypermiling / ecodriving tips & tactics for better mpg - EcoModder.com

I would start with these 3:

-Adjust the nut (you!) behind the wheel
-ScanGauge, UltraGauge, Torque, etc.
-Coasting to stoplights and stop signs

:thumbup:

i found a wikipedia page on fuel saving devices. it is the usual hatchet job on these devices.

notice this one

Fuel & oil additives[edit]

Compounds sold for addition to the vehicle's fuel may include tin, magnesium and platinum. The claimed purpose of these is generally to improve the energy density of the fuel.[citation needed]

Additives for addition to the engine oil, sometimes marketed as "engine treatments", contain teflon, zinc, or chlorine compounds; none of these is appropriate or helpful when added to an engine's crankcase, and they can in fact damage the engine.[9] The US Federal Trade Commission has aggressively pursued marketers of oil additives falsely claimed to improve fuel economy.[10][11][12][13][14][15]

this is very interesting, when the other wikipedia page says the european manufacturers are allowed to use lubricants not available to the public specifically to improve fuel economy.

There has not been any A-B-A testing done to confirm their advertised gains, so they are considered baloney until proved otherwise.


well that's the problem. somebody needs to test them properly. i guess that's going to be me.

we need to think a little about combustion physics. why does the Fit have two spark plugs per cylinder, coil-on-plug ignition, variable valves, high-pressure fuel injection, complex computer controls, and so forth? must be to get better combustion, surely? would you have dismissed these "mods" before they were introduced as "baloney"?

and why do these cars still have catalytic converters? it means there is still a lot of unburnt fuel leaving the engine. so clearly there is plenty room for improvement.

The European cycle is nowhere near a real world scenario for most drivers. I would pay zero attention to it.

Courtesy of "Green Car Reports"

"We're often asked why cars sold in Europe seem to be so much more efficient than those on sale in the U.S.

Typically, it's accompanied by the mention of some supposedly 80-mpg car sold in Europe--while the best U.S.-market vehicles barely crest the 50-mpg mark.

Now, Reuters highlights one of the main reasons for the discrepancy: Not only are European tests unrealistic, but automakers exploit loopholes in the testing, further blurring the lines between rated efficiency and real-world results."

Indeed. I've no doubt the european numbers are suspect. The answer is to use Fuelly where people post their actual mileage from all over the world.

But i did read somewhere that the air-fuel ratio is set to 14.7 in US but to 20 in europe. I don't think i believe this but it illustrates how much we don't know.

You've been told before that:

1. High speeds in something with the aerodynamics of a Fit are bad for fuel economy.
2. An automatic transmission is not the best for fuel economy.
3. Using A/C is bad for fuel economy.
4. Loading bunches of weight in an underpowered car is bad for fuel economy.
5. Extreme stop and go, like in a paper route, is bad for fuel economy.

It's also been mentioned that a Civic with a manual is a very different animal than a Fit with an automatic and that bolt-on combustion efficiency tricks aren't going to improve highway mpg on an underpowered brick shaped car.

Coming here is your best first move because how you use the car is the single most important factor in how much gas you burn.

Getting good instrumentation like a ScanGauge or an UltraGauge is the first modification of any kind that you should make- you understand the importance of proper testing, and no test means anything without good data. Refusing to get real time mpg and gph along with real time trip mpg is deliberately deciding not to actually test things. They'll also show you how wasteful (or not) every single action you take is.

Once you figure out how the Fit is happiest being driven, worry about changing how it burns the gas. The most rewarding step will probably be in the ECU. That's really using the same principle as adjusting your driving style first- instead of trying to change combustion itself, change the way you use the power that you get from the combustion.

You can change the aero, but you're basically stuck with its size and shape. A tranny swap may be possible but probably isn't practical or desirable, and same goes for an engine swap, only more so. Modifying things inside your engine just doesn't make sense, especially on a daily driver. Playing with the ECU is the only place I can think of seeing a practical benefit from modifying the engine without a nicely staffed and equipped lab with a machine shop and a test track.

While you're waiting for your SG or UG to come in the mail, click on the Garage link at the top of this page. Search for Honda Fits, and you'll see what people here are getting. Then look at how & where they use the cars and how they've modified them to get those numbers.

Combustion physics in cars aren't the most efficient, but the're the least rewarding area to look for higher mileage. There's enough low hanging fruit on the Fit to feed a small town for a year, so looking at that one apple way up at the top of the tree isn't a very efficient way to... improve efficiency.

yeah. i'm sure you're right. i appreciate you taking the time to expound on this. it is "an underpowered brick." maybe i'll just ditch it and get something else.

My underpowered brick has only been under 50 mpg for one in the last seven tanks- and I did a lot of towing on that tankful. Still got 44 mpg, though.

You know, with regular old inefficient combustion and only two added parts- an UltraGauge and a sheet of plastic blocking the lower grille, held in place with a zip tie and some duct tape. High tech, huh?

You are what makes mileage. Bolt-ons and "upgrades" are useless if you are still going to drive inefficiently. Ditching an underpowered brick for something with more power or better aero is only going to turn your paper route into a money loser.

i have been trying. i set the cruise control at 60 for an hour's drive on florida's backroads, which are pretty flat and generally do not have a lot of traffic. one person and a/c running. that returned 34.

i just did a 140 mile r/t on freeway. i set cruise at 70 so as not to impede traffic too much. 2 people and a/c. that returned 30.7.

i've quit the paper route and am now doing uber. that's a lot of short trips.

i'm interested in your blocking air intake idea. i'm a bit worried that here in florida in the summer with 90 deg temps it may overheat.

i've noticed the large plastic shroud that covers the underside of the engine is missing. i'm thinking of contacting honda to see how much it would cost to replace. presumably that will be adding to drag.

i'm also investigating removing the side mirrors and installing a rearview camera. any comments on that?

^What he said. Adjusting that "nut behind the steering wheel" is the most cost-effective way to get better fuel economy. Because it's free. :)

rechip a golf diesel?
 

i just got this from a friend of mine. anybody got any comments?



i checked the weight of the 2012 honda fit: it's 2496 lb (1134kg).
that means you _could_ get hard silicon compound tires (aka "eco"
tires) - but bear in mind that (this is from memory ok - please
check!) they're rated for an absolute maximum of around 84mph, and if
you use them for significant highway driving they're _going_ to wear
out _fast_.

honestly my advice would be to find someone who isn't going to drive
very much (so that the vehicle's effect on the environment is greatly
reduced) and sell it.

then go looking for something that has amazing fuel economy. my
recommendation would be an old golf diesel. i know someone in the UK
who had one re-chipped, it did 100mpg @ 55mph. the reason why he got
it re-chipped is because "by default", VW had it set to run *anything*
- ethanol, paraffin, you name it, it could burn it, because the car is
sold world-wide, and often the only thing people have access to is
non-standard fuels!

by getting the VW Golf diesel re-chipped, the timings were set much
more accurately: it would then *only* run on standard (pump) diesel,
and the fuel economy was increased from 80mpg to 100mpg as a result.

i don't know if you can get older VW Golf Diesel cars in the U.S. -
people who have them i imagine tend to hang on to them!

air/fuel ratio
 

i've been reading the air/fuel ratios on the Fit (i have torque on my phone). i notice that at cruise it doesn't seem to change from around 14-15.

i know that in aircraft you can adjust the mixture to lean it out in cruise. you have to watch the exhaust gas temp to make sure it doesn't overheat.

why couldn't this be done on the car? i notice there do seem to be chips available that allow the air/fuel ratio to be adjusted.

yeah but they cost $$$$ and you will never see a return on investment

i'm more interested in the principle of whether you can make any improvements that actually work as an experiment. i'm not so concerned with roi at the moment.

few of these devices seem to have been objectively tested so we really don't know whether they work or not. i'm willing to outlay some money in the interests of science.

Souped up car to drive from Florida to California on one tank of NEXBTL
 

i notice they're using a VW diesel


In Florida, a team of motorsport enthusiasts will drive from the Atlantic Coast of Florida to the Pacific Coast of California on just one tank of renewable fuel on June 21-26, 2015. This is made possible by NEXBTL renewable diesel that is produced from bio-based raw materials by Neste.

The Guest Champion in Across the USA challenge is Tanner Foust, four-time X Games gold medal winner, three-time U.S. Rallycross champion and two time Formula Drift champion.

The car is a Superlite Coupe (SLC) which is custom-built by CLP motorsports. It has the aerodynamics necessary for maximum efficiency at speed, which is enhanced by a lightweight aluminum monocoque chassis and fiberglass body. The SLC has all of the handling of a race car, but it is street legal and is powered by a modified Volkswagen 1.9-liter TDI diesel engine.

The across the USA drive will start on Sunday the 21st of June. The SLC car will drive across the United States on Interstate 10, the fourth-longest transcontinental highway in the U.S., which is more than 2,400 miles long. It runs through eight states, starting in Atlantic Beach, Florida, and ending on the Pacific Coast in Santa Monica, California.

The best place to start trying is here: 109 hypermiling / ecodriving tips ...

Improvements that actually work are listed here: 68 vehicle mods for better fuel economy ...

The fun part with this is that every platform is different with its own unique aerodynamic, weight, powertrain and other issues. Identical mods will have different results on different cars. Removing the side mirrors will helpful, but will they be as helpful as wheel skirts?

ROI is another way of saying "effectiveness." Every production car will benefit from some basic mods the moment you make them, while reinventing the wheel for combustion in your spare time may help someday- in the car that you've left otherwise as inefficient as it was the day it left the factory. Until you hone your own driving skills to be as effective as possible none of your data will be worth a damn. None of it. The driver is the biggest variable in FE and you can't objectively test anything until you can be an objective tester. Time spent working on technique isn't wasted- time spent driving without working on technique is.

There's no sense wishing for better mileage if you won't work on yourself.
There's no sense modifying your car if you won't modify the way you use it.
There's no sense reinventing combustion if you're going to ignore bigger inefficiencies.

A journey of a thousand li starts with a single step. Start with that one.