EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   EcoModding Central (https://ecomodder.com/forum/ecomodding-central.html)
-   -   Not very good gas mileage, please help (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/not-very-good-gas-mileage-please-help-35345.html)

EcoCivic 07-08-2017 02:31 PM

Not very good gas mileage, please help
 
My 2005 Civic VTEC with an automatic transmission is, for some reason not getting as good of gas mileage as it should. I have done a few things to it in part to improve mileage. It has a power steering delete, AC removed temporarily, new timing belt, minor weight reduction, almost new LRR tires filled to 40 PSI on alloy rims, all LED lighting except interior and reverse lights which will get swapped too, recently I fully rebuilt the engine, high flow header, cat and muffler, D16Y8 intake manifold and fuel injectors, custom air intake system, and a couple other minor things. It only gets around 26-28 MPG. I checked all the sensors and it has a new thermostat. It runs very well, but not very efficiently. The only things that I can think of that might be contributing is a crack in the exhaust header, the EVAP purge valve is stuck closed and it is missing the front wheel well liners, but I will install those soon. Any ideas? If you have any questions or things to check, please let me know. Thanks a lot.

UPDATE: The last 2 times I filled the tank after I installed the wheel well liners and JB Welded the crack in the header I got 31.5 and 33.7 MPG on my last 2 fill ups. The first tank was a decent amount city driving, and the second tank was more highway driving. I might be able to get the mileage even higher if I fix the EVAP purge solenoid, fix the problem with the o2 sensor intermittently going dead and possibly reconnect the EGR, although I do not want to cause more carbon buildup in the intake and cylinders by pulling in dirty exhaust, so I probably won't reconnect the EGR unless I can keep the carbon out of the intake somehow.

Stubby79 07-08-2017 02:43 PM

City driving? Highway driving? normal automatic or CVT?

You're about right for mostly city driving in a normal automatic trans.

puddleglum 07-08-2017 02:58 PM

Welcome to the forum. It's possible that rebuilding your engine is part of your problem mileage wise. If you tightened everything up in the rebuild, it may take some time to break in again, just like in a new car. Also, the cracked header may be effecting the O2 sensor readings. May not be enough to through a code but enough to reduce mileage. Just brainstorming with you. Did your mileage drop after all that you've done or is the quest for better mileage something recent?
Automatics are harder in general to hypermile due to the limited driving techniques at your disposal. I found it worse when I did a lot of in town driving. Wondering if your commute might be fighting against you.

EcoCivic 07-08-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubby79 (Post 544757)
City driving? Highway driving? normal automatic or CVT?

You're about right for mostly city driving in a normal automatic trans.

It is a normal 4 speed automatic, and I do mostly highway driving.

EcoCivic 07-08-2017 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddleglum (Post 544759)
Welcome to the forum. It's possible that rebuilding your engine is part of your problem mileage wise. If you tightened everything up in the rebuild, it may take some time to break in again, just like in a new car. Also, the cracked header may be effecting the O2 sensor readings. May not be enough to through a code but enough to reduce mileage. Just brainstorming with you. Did your mileage drop after all that you've done or is the quest for better mileage something recent?
Automatics are harder in general to hypermile due to the limited driving techniques at your disposal. I found it worse when I did a lot of in town driving. Wondering if your commute might be fighting against you.

Should I unplug the oxygen sensor and see if the mileage improves? If I understand correctly, the oxygen sensor just trims the air fuel ratio if there is a problem, and it theoretically effects nothing unless it detects that the engine is running rich or lean. This car used to get around 33-36 MPG, but around the time the old engine started failing, the mileage dropped, probably because of increased friction and reduced compression, but when I installed the rebuilt engine, the mileage did not improve again. I also noticed that when I let off the throttle on a flat road, the car starts to slow down fairly quickly, but that might just be me.

California98Civic 07-08-2017 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcoCivic (Post 544763)
Should I unplug the oxygen sensor and see if the mileage improves?

No, that will not help you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcoCivic (Post 544763)
If I understand correctly, the oxygen sensor just trims the air fuel ratio if there is a problem, and it theoretically effects nothing unless it detects that the engine is running rich or lean.

The upstream O2 sensor provides data that helps the map in the ECU regulate fuel/air mix. That would be way important for your current problem. And if there is oxygen infiltration via a crack, it will throw the data off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcoCivic (Post 544763)
This car used to get around 33-36 MPG, but around the time the old engine started failing, the mileage dropped, probably because of increased friction and reduced compression, but when I installed the rebuilt engine, the mileage did not improve again. I also noticed that when I let off the throttle on a flat road, the car starts to slow down fairly quickly, but that might just be me.

You have a D16Y8 manifold on a D17 engine. Did you install that before or after you started noticing a fuel economy drop?

EcoCivic 07-08-2017 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 544765)
No, that will not help you.



You have a D16Y8 manifold on a D17 engine. Did you install that before or after you started noticing a fuel economy drop?

I installed it after the fuel economy drop, and it did not seem to have any measurable effect on the already not very good gas mileage, but it did improve throttle response a lot, and best of all it is not plastic, so it won't crack.

JRMichler 07-08-2017 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcoCivic (Post 544763)
I also noticed that when I let off the throttle on a flat road, the car starts to slow down fairly quickly, but that might just be me.

Check for dragging brakes. When you finish a drive, put a finger on each brake disc or drum. If one is hot, that brake is dragging. If they are all hot, they are being used too much.

ar5boosted 07-08-2017 08:24 PM

Maybe a bearing ?

Handbrake ?

If not something like that, an o2 sensor that is bad would drag down fuel economy. So replacing that could help.

Ecky 07-08-2017 09:58 PM

Details about your driving patterns? How fast do you drive? Any traffic? Head winds? Do you have any fuel economy instrumentation?

Food for thought, I get about 50mpg at 80mph, and 100mpg at 55mph.

EcoCivic 07-08-2017 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 544776)
Details about your driving patterns? How fast do you drive? Any traffic? Head winds? Do you have any fuel economy instrumentation?

Food for thought, I get about 50mpg at 80mph, and 100mpg at 55mph.

I mainly drive to and from work, which is almost all highway driving. The last tank I went on a road trip and averaged around 70 MPH, in some heavy rain if that matters. Not much traffic, but when I am stopped for a short period of time, I shift to neutral. I shut the engine when sitting for a long time. Not sure about headwinds. I have a Scangauge 2 for fuel economy instrumentation and monitoring temp, voltage etc.

California98Civic 07-08-2017 10:41 PM

Filters too. Check fuel and air filters for clogging. ...but I like the O2 sensor for air infiltration from that crack screwing with the ECU.

Maintain and repair the most obvious first... then move on to less obvious... you'll find it.

ar5boosted 07-09-2017 01:27 AM

oh, biggest "simple" killer of fuel efficiency is a inlet manifold leak, possibly around the injectors or throttle-body somewhere. This would explain everything. Spray with hydrocarbon-spray till you find a vacuum-leak.

EcoCivic 07-09-2017 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 544780)
Filters too. Check fuel and air filters for clogging. ...but I like the O2 sensor for air infiltration from that crack screwing with the ECU.

Maintain and repair the most obvious first... then move on to less obvious... you'll find it.

The air filter is clean, and the fuel filter is in the tank and is supposedly not a maintenance item, but I changed it at around 200K miles, and cold starting and throttle response improved, and I think mileage improved a little. I think you are onto something with the crack in the header pulling air into the exhaust, o2 sensor sees the exhaust as lean, computer adds more fuel to compensate, engine runs rich. Good suggestions.

EcoCivic 07-09-2017 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar5boosted (Post 544782)
oh, biggest "simple" killer of fuel efficiency is a inlet manifold leak, possibly around the injectors or throttle-body somewhere. This would explain everything. Spray with hydrocarbon-spray till you find a vacuum-leak.

I checked for leaks with starting fluid about 20 times, I did not find anything. A leak would definitely kill gas mileage though.

California98Civic 07-09-2017 11:24 AM

When you get it figured out, come back and tell us what did it. We'll be interested. Better yet, become a regular on the forum. You are welcome here, of course. You seem to know your car really well, too. I had no idea they moved the fuel filter into the tank after the 6th generation. That just makes things unnecessarily hard to check.

EcoCivic 07-09-2017 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 544798)
When you get it figured out, come back and tell us what did it. We'll be interested. Better yet, become a regular on the forum. You are welcome here, of course. You seem to know your car really well, too. I had no idea they moved the fuel filter into the tank after the 6th generation. That just makes things unnecessarily hard to check.

Yea, I know my baby pretty well, after all I put 2 engines in it. I will definitely update this post when I figure out what is wrong. I agree with you, it is stupid to put the fuel filter inside the tank. No matter what they say, it will clog over time. The filter is actually built into the top of the fuel pump housing, and even an aftermarket one was $40 on Amazon. And it is a real PITA to change. I actually thought about somehow removing the filter from the housing and just installing an inline one under the car, but they seem to make it impossible to remove the filter from the housing. If anyone figures out a way to get the filter out of the fuel pump housing, please let me know.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com