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botsapper 12-14-2016 07:36 PM

The Old Empires' plan to cut out Tesla
 
BMW, Daimler (parent of Mercedes-Benz and Smart), VW Group (Audi and Porsche brands) and Ford are planning, designing and will be building an EV ultra fast-charging network. They are initially laying out their network of an UF DC charging stations along Europe's main highways. Their first network will have 400 locations available by 2020. Their chargers will operate up to 350 kw, more than twice of Tesla Supercharger stations. The network will be based on the Combined Charging System (CCS) protocol currently used in a lower-power version by all four makers. The global group will set the software and physical standards for the CCS specification, and working on the upgrades from the current 50kw to their planned 350 kw maximum spec. This system will also be their next zero-emission infrastructure for North America as well. This proprietary and exclusive network that will NOT connect to Tesla EVs.

https://www.thrillist.com/cars/natio...charge-network

oil pan 4 12-14-2016 07:46 PM

Ahhh a cartel has formed to combat tesla.

Only thing I see is 350kw far exceeds the capacity of residential overhead 4160v 3 phase line that are pretty much everywhere.

These would likely need to be tired into intermediate transmission lines usually around 50 to 100kv.

Then they throw in renewable power.
Don't they realize wind and solar don't deal with load spikes real well?

vskid3 12-14-2016 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 529503)
Then they throw in renewable power.
Don't they realize wind and solar don't deal with load spikes real well?

They'll just use a boatload of Tesla's Powerwalls! ;)

On the one hand I like the idea because more charging stations means better EV adoption, which means I can hopefully buy a used 200+ mile range EV sooner. On the other hand, having more than just a few charging standards will potentially be a huge pain.

Erasmo 12-15-2016 12:31 AM

The load peaks will probably be fixed with local battery buffering.

ohmman 12-15-2016 12:53 AM

A CCS adapter would not be difficult for Tesla to manufacture, at least at their 150kW levels. Stepping down might present a challenge. Thrillist (?) also missed that Tesla is part of the CCS consortium since April (I cannot yet post links since I only have 3 posts, but a simple Google search for CCS and Tesla will get you the results you need).

It's weird they were called "stubbornly independent" since they've been open to sharing their charging network since its inception. No manufacturers took them up on it, though - likely because it wouldn't feel very good to sell a BMW and have them latch up to a charging pedestal with "Tesla" branded on it. But Tesla also open sourced their IP. Stubbornly independent might reflect their focus on vertical integration, though. They seem to shed suppliers rapidly when things go wrong, and just bring it all in house.

My feeling about "Thrillist" is that they're big fans of clicks.

Fingie 12-15-2016 06:35 AM

kinda sad. I hoped we would get a worldwide standard, like the usb connectors on phones.

Why not form a group with all of them, have a screen on the charger that has a changing logo, depending what model charges XD

oil pan 4 12-15-2016 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmo (Post 529518)
The load peaks will probably be fixed with local battery buffering.

The idea of using a battery to supply 350kw to charge a battery is really kind of dumb.
Unless you are trying to increase cost and complexity to increase the size of the government grant you are after.

thingstodo 12-15-2016 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 529538)
The idea of using a battery to supply 350kw to charge a battery is really kind of dumb.
Unless you are trying to increase cost and complexity to increase the size of the government grant you are after.

Depending on where the charge stations are ... there is a power bill penalty for loads that go from 0 (no charging) to 350 kw (charging) in a minute or two ... or perhaps occasionally to 3.5 MW (10 chargers at 350 KW in one location). In that context, local energy storage may be cost effective. Batteries, supercaps (eventually), or perhaps even a local natural gas generator .. which is not exactly green but may be practical ...

Our power bill at work is roughly half for consumption and half for peak demand. So we pay $0.10 for the power when we use it, and $0.10 for the max power that we have used in the past 10 months. When we are down for maintenance, we still pay about half of what we do when we are running, because we COULD start up and use all that power and cause the grid to have to react (!!). Power companies suck, in slightly different ways than Oil companies suck. But they still suck.

oil pan 4 12-15-2016 10:51 AM

If you don't like the power company then go off grid.
Don't like the oil companies, get an electric vehicle.

To buy enough battery capacity to charge let's say help charge 1 vehicle at 350kw would want a 700v system because this is a common inverter voltage. The bank would have to be made up of at least 97 12v batteries rated for 225 amp hours.
That many batteries could supply around 70kw of charging power. So you may want more like 2 or 3 of these banks per vehicle.
Each battery would weigh around 130lb, cost $400 each.
Each battery bank would cost around $40,000, contain around 10,000 pounds of lead and would need to be replaced around every 5 years. Just to charge 1 or 2 cars at 1 location. The battery houses would have to be climate controlled because that much charge and discharge would make a lot of heat.
So it's a bad idea and dumb idea.

I'm assuming none of you who think it's a good idea to "use a battery bank" even tried to figure how much battery it would take to supply even a portion of 350kw?

botsapper 12-15-2016 12:11 PM

NRG EVgo, the largest US public DC charging network will be installing the first 350 kW charging station in Baker, CA. The Baker terminal is perfectly located, in the middle of the Mojave Desert at the junction of Interstate 15 and Death Valley Road. A well-known midway resting/eating/fueling point strategically located between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Those gambling/weekend vacationers in their EVs could get quickly charged up while they finish their gyros at the Mad Greek or have more jalapeno poppers at the Jack in the Box.
The Baker EVgo station will have BOTH charging protocols, CHAdeMO and CCS connectors.

EVgo Installing First 350 kW Ultra Fast Public Charging Station In The US


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