Optima Red top = Garbage
 

Returned my 4th one to advance auto parts on Saturday in 18 months.
All of them end up with a shorted cell. err

As an experiment I left the last one on my back porch for 6 weeks not connected to anything, tried to charge it and discovered a shorted cell.

As another experiment I've been running my Supra (Golf has a conventional battery) on a walmart lawn and garden battery for 2 months. It hasn't had an issue yet.

So be aware.

I've never seen reports of that many failed batteries from Optima - and I used to sell them at Sears.

You should have your charging system checked, honestly. There might be a problem w/ the Voltage regulator or Alternator, or even a bad ground that is charging the batteries higher than it should be... they can't take more than 15V, and they're only rated for 14.6 cVDC without failing.

Then again, maybe you should get your money back from them, since I just noticed you didn't even use the last one, and it was still shorted, then go to another store that sells them and make sure you didn't just get into a defective batch.

The Red's aren't the most popular batteries compared to many other types, and you could possibly have gotten a complete batch of batteries to fail on you if you kept going with it, due to the relative lack of sales activity compared to other types of standard batteries.

If, in fact, you got into a bad batch, you might find a good one at another dealer, and you'll still be covered under warranty.

I'm an ASE certified auto parts specialist, and an engineer. I have to agree with the Christ. Optima != garbage. I've seen lots of cases of Optimae testing bad, then being thrown on the slow-charger over night, and subsequently testing good and working fine.

That said, I don't recommend the Optima to most people. AGM batteries are really neat technology, but the vast majority of people who buy them, don't really benefit from those advantages (nonspillable, vibration resistant, the yellow-top are deep-cycleable).

One downside of the Optima is that fast-charging it kills it. The other downside is it's twice the price of a conventional battery.

Regarding the lawn & garden battery: That's probably rated for 300CCA or so. It'll work fine for now, but I bet it'll be unable to start the car next winter. Undersized batteries don't last, for whatever reasons.

Also, you can test the bad batch theory by checking the date code on the batteries. I'm willing to bet your local Advance doesn't stock more than one or two of them, so I'm pretty sure your batteries came off of different shipments.

Does it get cold in Louisiana? I don't think "winter" is an issue LOL.

If you do end up having a problem with starting in the winter (whatever you call it) you can always link another L/G battery in parallel w/ the one you have... this will double the cranking amp output for you, while maintaining 12V, and should start your car just fine.

Alternator will peak around 14.7 on dash 14.4 97% of the time.

Honestly 2 have never been in the car.

Honestly the Lawn and Garden battery has not failed yet.

This is my 3rd optima red top the the first 2 lasted until I sold the cars . I'm under the impression that they *were* great.

Wish I had read this before my last response . . . .

I should have mentioned before my discussion with the manager of Advance Auto parts here in town. They are returning them like mad (don't bother checking them) but are not allowed to return them for money/ credit after 90 days.

Interesting My charger is "Fully automatic" which basically just means it pours 25.7 amps in to it until it is almost all the way charged, then tapers off. Could be my issue.

These guys Charging an Optima or AGM Battery : Batteries Are Us recommend charging at a minimum of 100 amps. No Idea who is right . . . . .

I started buying them when I was on a crazy weight reduction kick (drag racing). I was actually pretty loyal to them for a while

Not to doubt at all, but do you have a source?
Just ran across these 2 on their page.
News, Events, FAQ
News, Events, FAQ



No doubt it is not intended for automotive use; but it works much longer than any optima has so far. I'm actually considering leaving it because it never gets very cold here and I never drive it when it is "cold".

I totally did not think about that. I have not tracked any info from the previous batteries.

The Supra is a toy car; I don't drive it when I need the roof on. Very cold for us is 20F Typical annual low is 30F.

From what I've heard on the EVDL, Optima's quality has gone way down in recent years. The AGM of choice is the Exide Orbital--same design, better quality.

Also, note that the Red Top is the "starting" battery of the Optima family. If you go that route, go with the Blue Top or Yellow Top, as they're deep cycle batteries and don't cost much more.

Hmm, since you're in LA where there's no such thing as winter, I think I like the L&G battery hack. Advance's U1-3 battery weighs 17lb and delivers 300CCA for $32. The 51-1 Honda Civic battery delivers 435CCA, 28lb, $82. My Subaru gets a 35-1: 500CCA, 38lb, $87.

I could save 10lb by dropping in a Civic battery, and that is tempting, but consider the environmental and cost impact of running batteries that last, say, four years instead of six. Maybe I'll try it next time I need a battery.

Braille Battery - B106

$140. 6.6lbs. Fully charged, 80*F, over 500 cranking amps. CCA: 210A. Even at 210A that'd start my truck in most weather. Same cost as the color tops, AGM insides, its even recommended for large motor (V10+) daily driving. I don't see a downside other than extreme cold weather. May not have the CCA for that. Rated at 2000 10% cycles. Not sure how that'd corrolate to daily driving, but if one were to assume 1 cycle per driving experience, that's 2000 times you drive your car. Worst case, I start my car or truck 5-6 times a day. 2000/6=333 days. That's assuming I bleed the battery every time, which isn't the case. I'd expect 2-3 years for one of these at least. the Group 34 sets (what a lot of cars/trucks use) are rated at 3100 cycles. 1/3 more, so 450 days. But we know you'll get 4 years out of it if treated well. So that means for the B106 I'd expect 3 years minimum.

6.6lbs, $140, 3 years. It's my next battery when the current ones fail. but certainly can't beat $32 for 300CCA either...ahhh. choices.

Ramblings: Not a good choice for electrics, at 10A/hr it'd die pretty fast. hmm.. 10Ah/6.6lbs. compared to the B10049 at 100Ah/58lbs, not so great power density, 1.5Ah/lb vs 1.72Ah/lb. Anyone got a battery to beat that?
/rambling

I've had an optima yellow top since '02 or '03. its been in 3 different rigs, no problems yet. got it at an auto parts store on "double" sale. the yellow tops were stocked in the red top sale rack. snagged one before they realized their mistake.

The last couple of years I have been having terrible luck with Optima Batteries.
I just had the Red Top in the Fiero replaced for the 2nd time under warranty and the Yellow Top in the Metro replaced for the first time under warranty.

Battery charging rate
 

Just a note on charging batteries. The recommended maximum charging rate should never exceed 10% of the battery's amp hour rating. If you have an 85 amp hour battery than 8.5 amp is the fastest you want to charge it. The above is for wet acid batteries. If you have a gel cell or AGM or other not wet battery you will want to charge it at an even lower rate, see battery manufactures recommendation. I usually try and not exceed 5% of the battery rating if possible. I was in the marine business and many of the boat batteries I had to replace were quick charged and damaged the batteries over time thus shortening the battery live.

Al

I TOALLY DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH HERE!

But 2 Optima representatives have told me that Optima Redtops must be charged at a 1 hour rate or Faster. They recommend charging at 100 Amps for their standard starting battery.


As an update I still have a useless Optima red top that they (Advance auto parts) will not take back. I've been running the lawn and garden battery in it for quite some time;only issue so far was the tech at Lonestar who wasn't sure if a lawn and garden battery was legal for competition, quick phone call cleared that up and we ran the car.

Charging spec from Optima for red top batteries
 

Charging Info from Optima's website.

All OPTIMA® RedTop Batteries
These batteries are designed for engine starting applications. They are NOT recommended or warranted for use in deep cycle applications.

Recommended charging information:

Alternator:
13.3 to 15.0 volts, no amperage limit.

Battery charger:
13.8 to 15.0 volts, 10 amps maximum, 6-12 hours approximate.

Rapid Recharge:
Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated).
Maximum current: No limit as long as temperature < 50°C (125°F).
Maximum recharge time: Charge until current drops below 1 amp.

Float charge:
13.2 to 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).

All limits must be strictly adhered to.


What's interesting is they give "10 amps maximum" charging rate for a battery charger than state "no limit" charge rate for "Rapid Recharge". The problem with the no limit charge rate is by the time the battery reaches the 125 degrees F on the outside charging at 100 amps the inside of battery is much hotter and most likely already damaged. I can see why they are having a problem with batteries going bad when they say "no limit" on "rapid Recharging" charging rate.

If you use the 10% rule you will be pretty close to what the manufactures rate as the max charge rate with wet cell batteries. Again non wet cells like AGM and gel cells require a slower rate of charge.

Al

Thank you very much for the information!

Sounds about right 2 me.

I don't believe I have charged this one my self at all. It is still sitting on the back porch.

I go from forum to forum and the issue of Optima batteries not being what they once were is a common one. I have to believe it has some truth to it.

Anyone here try Odyssey batteries:

Odyssey Drycell Car Batteries

More power in a more compact and lighter package.

If I keep my car past the 4th or 5th year mark, I'm gonna dump the stock battery in favor of one of these, I think.