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-   -   Ordered an Aptera typ-1h (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ordered-aptera-typ-1h-5671.html)

 Ptero 10-22-2008 09:16 PM

Ordered an Aptera typ-1h

Great info! I have an Aptera (claimed Cd of 0.11) on order...
http://www.aptera.com/images/SafteyCageRender.jpg
"For comparison: Honda Insight Cd=0.25. Mercedes Benz's Bionic Car and General Motors EV-1 both have a Cd=0.19. Daihatsu UFE-III Cd=0.168. GM Precept Cd=0.163. Aerodynamics in Car Design shows that the Ford Probe IV achieved a Cd=0.152 and the Ford Probe V did even better with a Cd=0.137. "http://www.fev-now.com/index.php?page=230_mpg_aptera

 MetroMPG 10-22-2008 10:15 PM

Wow! Congrats.

Which one - the EV or hybrid?

 Ptero 10-22-2008 11:14 PM

http://www.aptera.com/images/graph1.gif
With the All Electric Aptera, it is very easy to figure out the mileage range. The mileage is determined by the distance you can drive, under normal circumstances, until the batteries are effectively drained. In the case of the first Aptera typ-1e, we have calculated the range to be about 120miles.

With the Plug-in Electric Hybrid version of the Aptera(typ-1h) the mileage of the vehicle is difficult to describe with one number. For example, the Typ-1h can drive 40 to 60 miles on electric power alone. Perhaps for such a trip, the engine may only be duty-cycled for a few seconds or minutes. This would produce a fantastic number, an incredible number that, though factually true, would have no useful context, i.e. it's just a point on a graph.

An asymptotic decaying exponential is an accurate way to describe the fuel mileage of the Typ-1h. For example driving say, 50 miles, one might calculate a MPG number that's 2 or 3 times higher, say, 1000 MPG. As battery energy is depleted, the frequency of the engine duty cycle is increased. More fuel is used at 75 miles, the MPG might be closer to 400 MPG. Again, we're using battery energy mostly, but turning the engine on more and more. Just over 100 miles we're just over 300 MPG, and just beyond 120 miles, we're around 300 MPG.

So why pick a number at 120 miles? Well, it's more than double of most available plug-in hybrid ranges that achieve over 100 MPG. It's three times the distance of the typical American daily commute. It's a meaningful distance that represents the driving needs of 99% of Americans on a daily basis. Sure, it's asymptotic, after 350-400 miles it eventually plummets to around 130 MPG at highway speeds where it will stay all day until you plug it back in and charge it up.
http://http://www.aptera.com/details.php

I'll be climbing into my typ-1h and driving it out of the Aptera factory in California straight to Chicago.

 bluesfan 10-23-2008 12:09 AM

That puppy looks like it could fly -- makes me think of The Jetsons :D

 MetroMPG 10-23-2008 09:08 AM

Ptero - hope you don't mind I split this into its own thread. I think people will be very interested to read about it (and may not have been following the other aero thread).

Darin

 NeilBlanchard 10-23-2008 10:16 AM

Hi,

The production version of the Aptera Typ-1e (and the Typ-1h) is due to be revealed very soon, and as so far we know that they are adding outside mirrors (to comply with the letter of California laws), though the cameras may still be an option. They are adding rear quarter windows, and part of the lower rear of the door windows are operable. The revised Cd is reported to be 0.15.

They have lowered the whole vehicle by ~4 1/2 inches, and the front wheels are move further back -- these changes will stabilize it, and make it much harder to rollover.

It is also possible that it is now front wheel drive: the element in the middle on the front suspension sure looks like it is a drive shaft:

http://www.aptera.com/test2/layout5.jpg

Here's a comparison of the Mk-1 (below) and the production version (MK-2? above) with the outline of the old overlayed on the new version.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...omparisons.png

 tjts1 10-23-2008 11:21 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ptero (Post 68788) Great info! I have an Aptera (claimed Cd of 0.11) on order...
Cool. Do you have a motorcycle license yet? It should be interesting to see how the CHP decides to interpret the mandatory motorcycle helmet law in the Aptera.

 Ptero 10-23-2008 11:41 AM

Although the Aptera is a motorcycle, 3-wheelers do not require motorcycle licenses - and because it is an enclosed motorcycle, no helmet is required.

 Ptero 10-23-2008 12:04 PM

Quote:
 They have lowered the whole vehicle by ~4 1/2 inches, and the front wheels are move further back -- these changes will stabilize it, and make it much harder to rollover.
http://www.rqriley.com/imagespln/t-mag_rear1.jpg
I bought a Trimagnum reverse trike very similar to this one in 2000. According to Popular Mechanics, the skidpad rating exceeds that of a Corvette. There is a critical relationship between the wheelbase and front axle track dimensions and center of gravity on reverse trikes. If you get these dimensions right, the reverse trike is as formidable on a race track as a 4-wheel vehicle, with no unexpected tendency to slide the rear wheel out.

FYI, I have just obtained an aluminum block Northstar V8 and drive for this Trimagnum, which will be converted to run on both gasoline and natural gas/hydrogen gas mixtures and provide around one horsepower for every 6 pounds. I am also installing a MacPherson strut front end which requires conversion to a single seat and an aircraft-type canopy.

Talk about ecomodding, Robert Riley, who sells the plans, is now designing a diesel PHEV called the XR3 using the TriMagnum concept. His progress can be followed here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/...s-pics/980066/

Aptera has additional concerns about how the public will unknowingly alter the center of gravity and perhaps the stability of the vehicle. We have witnessed a steady progression from the optimized original to this compromised model, but a .cd of .15 is still spectacular.

Vehicle Stability

505. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the height of the centre of mass, shown in Figure 1, of a motor tricycle or a three-wheeled vehicle shall not exceed one and a half times the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis, shown in Figure 2.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a motor tricycle designed in such a way that it leans during a turning manoeuvre in the same direction as the turn.

(3) The total weight of a motor tricycle or three-wheeled vehicle on all its front wheels, as measured at the tire-ground interfaces, shall be not less than 25 per cent and not greater than 70 per cent of the loaded weight of that vehicle.

(4) The loaded weight of a motor tricycle or three-wheeled vehicle and the location of its centre of mass shall be determined under the following conditions:

(a) the fuel tank is filled to any level from 90 to 95 per cent of the vehicle fuel tank capacity;

(b) a 50th percentile adult male anthropomorphic test device or an equivalent mass is located at every front outboard designated seating position but, if an equivalent mass is used, its centre of mass shall coincide, within 12 mm in the vertical dimension and 12 mm in the horizontal dimension, with a point 6 mm below the position of the H-point as determined by using the equipment and procedures specified in SAE Standard J826, Devices for Use in Defining and Measuring Vehicle Seating Accommodation (July 1995), except that the length of the lower leg and thigh segments of the H-point machine shall be adjusted to 414 mm and 401 mm, respectively, instead of the 50th percentile values specified in Table 1 of that standard; and

(c) adjustable seats are placed in the adjustment position that is midway between the forward-most and rearmost positions and, if separately adjustable in a vertical direction, shall be at the lowest position but, if an adjustment position does not exist midway between the forward-most and rearmost positions, the closest adjustment position to the rear of the midpoint shall be used.

(5) For a motor tricycle or three-wheeled vehicle with one wheel at the front and two wheels at the rear, the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis, shown in Figure 2, shall be determined using the equation

d = L sin (arctan (t / 2W))

where

d is the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis;

L is the longitudinal distance between the centre of mass and the centre of the front axle;

t is the width of the wheel track of the rear axle; and

W is the wheelbase.

(6) For a motor tricycle or three-wheeled vehicle with two wheels at the front and one wheel at the rear, the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis, shown in Figure 2, shall be determined using the equation

d = (W - L) sin ( arctan (t / 2W))

where

d is the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis;

W is the wheelbase;

L is the longitudinal distance between the centre of mass and the centre of the front axle; and

t is the width of the wheel track of the front axle.

(7) Motor tricycles manufactured before September 1, 2004 need not comply with this section.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...ure1-e_505.gif

Legend

h is the height of the centre of mass

L is the longitudinal distance between the centre of mass and the centre of the front axle

W is the wheelbase

Figure 1 — Side View

http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...ure2-e_505.gif

Legend

d is the horizontal distance from the centre of mass to the nearest roll axis

t is the width of the wheel track of the front or rear axle

W is the wheelbase

Figure 2 — Top View

Established by:
SOR/2003-272 24 July, 2003 pursuant to section 5 and subsection 11(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, comes into force 24 July, 2003.

Schedule IV is amended by adding section 505 after section 500.

SOR/2007-180 July 31, 2007 pursuant to section 5 and subsection 11(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act comes into force August 22, 2007.

Paragraph 505(4)(b) of Schedule IV is replaced.

 SuperTrooper 10-23-2008 12:16 PM

Ptero, what is the estimated delivery date?

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