Ouch! Friend's Ford F-150 lifetime fuel consumption: 14.7 MPG US = 16 L/100 km
 

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1540687810


I'm helping my friend sell his 2010 F-150. It just turned 150,000 km (93k miles), and I just noticed this afternoon it's got a resettable fuel economy display in the cluster.

And guess what! It hasn't been reset since day one!

It showed ...

16 L / 100 km = 14.7 MPG US

Holy cow, that's horrendous! Or is it? (Well, it's about 4 times more fuel use than I generally aim for in my fleet, so it certainly looks horrendous to me.)

But what does the EPA say?

This 4.6L 4x4 truck was rated for 16 MPG combined. I'm not sure which automatic transmission it has - apparently you could get it with a 4- or 6-speed. They both had the same combined rating, despite the 6-speed getting 20 on the highway vs. 18 for the 4-speed.

So I guess he didn't do too badly after all.

Although he's burned through 24,000 L / 6340 gallons of gasoline.

At a buck a litre average up here, that works out to $24,000 spent on fuel.

Yikes. That's more than I've spent to buy my last 15 cars, combined.

Anybody wanna buy a truck?


https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1540688477

I don't care for pickups.
People are so convinced they need one.

Agreed - most of the pickups around here are just big, fancy, thirsty commuter cars.



But this friend may be one of the rare people who actually uses his truck as a truck.

He's a carpenter/contractor. Regularly pulls a landscape trailer. Plus he tows a sailboat all over the place in the summer. Work & play.

A beater car may not be for them then.

I use my leaf as a pickup. Tonight I hauled home about 300 pounds of scrap lumber with it.

If he's carrying and towing so much, that makes his fe performance more respectable.

Yeah, 15 MPG is actually kind of impressive if he wasn't consciously trying to drive efficiently. Think of all the hours he's spent idling! (Pickup drivers seem to love to listen to their trucks idle, especially if it's a diesel.)

Also, $24,000 is more than I've spent on all my cars combined, too, but that was only four of them. :D

Yes.

A pickup is a vehicle designed to do work. And if that man had business miles that were tax deductible, then his operating/ownership costs are different from Joe Commuter.

A truck is something where the miles are planned.

In reverse of the majority here who believe they need never change their use of a vehicle, just reduce the fuel burn. AND in a vehicle which can’t carry their family plus luggage. Or that won’t survive crashes where a better choice would have. There are minimums MUCH more important than the last tenth. Hard to imagine a less-responsible approach, but misunderstanding “virtue” is common today. Cut off ones nose to spite his face. Roams freely around here.

The first line of some of these stories SHOULD be: “I’ve reduced my annual miles by X-percent and still achieve the same ends as before”. But it isn’t. (Not much need to read the rest).

Entirely possible that pickup MADE money for the owner. Covered it’s costs, and generated a surplus.

Half-tons aren’t really freight-haulers. But judging by that contractor cap and small cab configuration, he could been a distributor. The short truck is easy to park & maneuver, but the windowless cap makes it more difficult in traffic (needed to keep UV and prying eyes to a minimum; as with vehicle color). A manufacturer rep. Where calling on customers to deliver valuable items is a win-win.

Or, you tell me that man’s a partner in an engineering firm specializing in work for major area manufacturers, that pic is a dead-on fit.

The truck is now old. Kept well-past a depreciating asset schedule. May have paid for itself twice over. Age now brings up reliability issues not worth risking.

Or maybe he just liked it. Joe Commuter after all. Nothing wrong with 15-mpg average. We’d have killed for that forty years ago with a V8 car.

.

I don't think he consciously tries to be efficient (ie. he never used his trip MPG meter). However he does kind of drive like a grandma ... maybe even to the point of going TOO slowly for ideal economy (putts around in too low a gear).

Good point. And, yes, the owner is a self-employed carpenter/contractor.

He has already replaced this truck with a newer F-150 ecoboost, bought from another friend who's also a self employed builder/contractor.

I had a '96 Chevy K1500 (4X4 half ton extended cab 6.5' bed) that I put 140K miles on from new until I retired it to my nephew in '11. I kep a fuel log notebook in my rides and that truck saw a lifetime 14 MPG average. It was my commuter vehicle for about half my time owning it and it towed our 6500lb boat during the Summers on countless trips to the bay and lakes. It too always had a cab height bed cap on it. It was also my vehicle used for all of my Fire Dept use as it had the radios, lights and siren in it. It saw lots of cold start "spirited" driving responding and more than a little bit of on scene idling at times. The best I ever calculated was 18 MPG on a 300 mile round trip with a light load and no towing, and there were a few single digit tanks.
I replaced that truck with an '05 Ford V-10 4X4 Excursion that saw about half of my commuter miles in the first two years I had it. Over that time it too averaged 14 MPG. The big wagon is now our dedicated tow rig for our 11,300+lb Travel Trailer and sees very little unloaded miles. It gets between 7 and 9.5 MPG towing the big TT (19,500+lbs combined weight), which is actually pretty darned good, all things considered.
Since 14 MPG was my standard mileage for so long it is the benchmark that I now use to calculate the fuel gallons & dollars saved on each fill and (since my ownership) lifetime on my Metros (2 '94s, 1 retired and a very clean XFi I'm driving now) and an '01 Suzuki Vitara 2.0 4X4. Both Metro have more than paid for themselves and the Zuk is nibbling away at it's purchase price that was higher, and it see much less miles than the Geo.
14 lifetime is pretty decent for a truck that sees a good deal of work, we here tend to focus on our high(er) mileage results and forget about all those "normal" folks out there in the world getting that kind on mileage as regular part of driving.

Nice! The right tool for the job.


I've heard a similar story often: "my [insert cheap, efficient car here] paid for itself through using it instead of the truck when practical."


Plus, that strategy keeps the non-work miles & depreciation off the more expensive truck.



Maybe some people only have space for one vehicle, but it seems for "non-work" driving, many truck owners would be well served by keeping an efficient car on hand as a runabout.



My F-150 friend in question only has the truck. I'm not sure what percent of his driving could be done with another car, but I do know that he's not very mechanically inclined when it comes to vehicles, so a cheap, efficient beater (the kind many of us seem to gravitate toward) isn't a practical option for him. However, I do see him riding his bike around once in a while when the weather's nice -- that puts him deep into the minority! We're lucky to live in a small city where that can be a practical means of getting around.

I had a truck for many years as a second car lol! Put about 60,000 on it in 15 yrs and decided that was a waste, Now if I need a truck for a job I find a way.

What percentage of people own a truck? Maybe 1 in 4?

If I didn't already own a few trucks (grandpa died last year and had 2), I'd just borrow a friend's and bring it back with a full tank of fuel. Friend is happy to have a full tank, I'm happy not to own an expensive PITA truck.

Trucks are the next big frontier for FE, in my opinion, or should be. With even full-size passenger cars like the Camry and Accord getting 40+mpg highway today, and truck sales increasing, there's more difference to be made in getting gas trucks up to 30mpg highway/25mpg combined than further improving passenger cars. We'll save more fuel in real numbers.

I've been arguing that they should have been the first frontier, not the last.

Hybrid technology pays higher dividends the heavier the vehicle is. The worlds first modern hybrid was... the Insight, busting the scales at 1,878 lb (852 kg). The guys on here are always reporting that their Insight with a dead traction battery returns the same fuel economy as when it worked, only it accelerates worse.

So how did we end up pioneering hybrid technology in the vehicles that are most difficult to cram the extra bits into while giving the least return for the effort?

My fear is that we're too ignorant to realize that taking a truck from 15 MPG to 20 MPG saves way more fuel than taking a sedan from 40 MPG than 50 MPG.

Years ago, I saw a hybrid pickup concept in Wired: gas engine powers the front wheels, electric motor powers the rear, giving some degree of controllable AWD without the weight of a driveshaft from front to back. Made all the sense in the world to me, shame it didn't catch on.

pickup trucks
 

They're like a Radio Shack Christmas toy.You spend money to purchase it,only to purchase batteries for the life of the toy.
Pay me now,and pay me later.
A commercial dream come true!:thumbup:

We're at about the point where batteries can last the life of the vehicle. There are Prius taxis with 300k miles on them and an original battery. It takes a long time to recoup the cost of hybrid, but eventually it is recouped. Trucks would recoup the cost much faster, especially considering maintenance items like brakes would need less attention.

I took this truck around my local eco-driving route that I sometimes use for coaching friends/family/acquaintances.


From a cold start in freezing weather it reported 15 L / 100 km = 15.7 MPG US. Its EPA city rating is 14 MPG / 16.8 L/100 km.


So you can teach an old dog new tricks.


Details: https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post582678

First, I'm not positive the fuel economy meter actually keeps a forever running average but it's a safe bet it does at least keep a few thousand miles average. That shouldn't really effect any of the points made as I bet every 5000 miles that truck drove were similar to any other 5000 mile stretch.

Second, it's not that I have given up on getting good economy I just have figured I don't drive enough to keep my Subaru around to keep miles off my truck. The added cost of insurance and plates was eating up any gas savings, so I sold the Subaru. Then guess what? Driving the Cummins sucks day to day so I need something different there as well, although I was getting about 17 mpg city short trips. Plus that never reaching 200 degrees had to be killing the Cummins. So I just sold it as well. Now I have the pig of all pigs, a 2500 Yukon XL. Well I guess it could be worse as I have the 6.0 not the 8.1. I haven't even ran a tank yet so I don't know the real hit, but I'm guessing it's around 11-13 mpg city. It's especially hard to guess as after the first fillup it puked an 1/8 of a tank onto the ground! At least it stopped there so the leak is somewhere high on the tank. Now I've been working on using up most of the 38 gallon tank so I can drop it and find the leak. 300 miles later and I'm down to 1/4 on the guage (of course it lost 1/8 that first night, thank God it was outside in the dirt not in the garage.) I'm still stoked about the Yukon. It is really the only 4x4 vehicle rated to haul 8 adults and tow a fair sized trailer, I have about a 2800 pound payload. It was only $3900 which I got $2500 for the Subie and $8500 for the Ram and save $500/year in extra insurance and taxes. Now at about 3000 miles per year I still save money going from 25mpg (best case Subie) down to 11 (worst case Yukon). I'm going to miss the towing power of the Cummins but I'm not in any hurry, the 6.0 gas should be just fine. I now also have a ton of money and room to build a camp kitchen/bed platform in back and have a rig that can get up nasty roads to the places I want to camp sometimes without the big trailer my wife likes.

You don't need hybrid to get a 40mpg pick up, just intelligent design. American type pickups are mostly toys. If you want to get real practicality with an open vehicle (if you have a shell on your pickup you're screaming 'I'm doing it wrong') then you get something like this:

https://trucksmithtarget.co.uk/wp-co...vehicle-v2.jpg

https://trucksmithtarget.co.uk/

Easy loading from all sides and a secure space for an 8' ladder and tools, and a low load floor (how you're supposed to get a compressor or welder or table saw into a 4x4 pick up I don't know).

30mpg city worst case. 40+mpg city best case. Same over all size as an F150.

America simply isn't ready.

For the last three years and 30,000 miles, I've averaged slightly over 35 MPG. If I lived in a warmer climate, that average would about 37 to 38 MPG.

The truck has comfortable seating for 5 adults, and I use it as a truck just often enough to justify a truck. I had a car and trailer at one time, and a truck just works better for me.

The truck I really want is slightly smaller, has better aerodynamics, the engine and six speed manual from the new Colorado, and properly done start/stop. With a rig like that, I would be close to or at 40 MPG.

OT

Hersbird,

With fuel topped off at travel center, get a CAT SCALE reading (phone app available). Just you alone and ONLY whatever gear kept permanently aboard (never removed until you sell it).

This TARE weight is the trucks minimum. Compare scale reading against axle/tire/wheel limits. This is what determines towing capacity. That spread from this “empty” scale ticket and any from setting up hitch rigging, etc, is how to understand what’s going on.

It’s also how to set tire pressure. Which is according to Load. These are necessary baseline numbers.

New shocks (Bilstein or KONI only) and examination of bushings critical on older truck. Cheap to fix (use poly for anti-roll bars). Zero steering slop.

Steering & braking are what matter. Not engine power or “Payload”.

The baseline for FE is loaded & hitched for a camping trip. Full fresh water & propane. Three scale passes. First with, and then without weight distribution hitch tensioned. Then drop trailer and scale last time. All passengers aboard.

(Hitch adjustment is essentially that first and third weighings show the same Steer Axle value).

That third pass is part of how to determine “what is the proper mpg for this rig”? It’s the “A” of an ABBA test where B is with the trailer. 40% drop solo in towing is the standard at or under 60-mph. Worse than that needs examination. Same roads and 100% constant use of cruise control; as the actual mpg figures aren’t important, it’s the tightest spread from Loaded/Solo to Loaded/Hitched that matters).

Both vehicles

1). Alignment
2). Brake drag
3). Bearing preset
4). Book maintenance to date.

With the “Camping Weight” recorded , you can duplicate it at any time for testing your new tow vehicle .

MICHELIN LTX or Bridgestone DURAVIS tires only.

All new exterior LED light fixtures. Not just lamps. Headlights deserve study. See Daniel Sterns site and keep copy of headlight adjustment diagram. I dial my headlights up or down a measured number of turns based on first correction, and again when headed out of town first time. (Half tank of fuel). No WAG

.

I agree with you Slowmover except payload does matter of course. I know the 2800# I posted isn't exact but it's ballpark and ironically it's 1000# more than my Cummins was. So the Cummins had a better tow rating, but was really lacking on payload. Now I had airbags in the Ram but really that doesn't change the official rating, It was under 1800# that I could carry (although I have had more than 3000# of topsoil in there for a cross town run). The tow rating was great but put 800 pounds on the tongue, 5x250 pound people inside, and bam! I'm over payload with an empty bed. (Bam was actually the Ram's nickname so I just teared up a bit there.) Now put the same 800# on the Yukon tongue, put even 7x250# adults in it, and I still have 250# of room for even more gear inside. So while the Yukon has 8000 pounds less tow rating, realistically it has more capability in other areas, mainly payload. Plus it rides day to day like a dream in comparison to a tank 2004 2500 Ram and a 6 speed with aftermarket clutch that was about a 2 legger.
What I should do is put a Cummins 4bt in it, but LS Chevy small blocks are just too plentiful and inexpensive to mess with a good thing. I can get a brand new crate motor direct from GM, complete throttle body, sensors, injectors all the way to the oil pan, dropped on my driveway for $5200 with a 360hp 380 ft-lb on junk gas net rating which is about what I was looking to spend just a correct injector job on the Cummins. Diesels are great but their stuff is crazy expensive when it goes bad.

I wasn’t questioning your choice of vehicle.

But, first, the Cummins Ram wouldn’t be overloaded unless an axle/tire/wheel rating was exceeded. This is law. “Payload” per Ram is advertising copy. Means nothing. I’ve legally loaded these trucks to far higher numbers and in complete legality. The insurer also has no worries.

As the AAM rear drive axle is rated at 11,000-lbs, it’s the wheels and tire that are the weak link. Change those to a higher rating and beef the springs.

Agreed they don’t ride well. Later generation hydraulic cab mounts are the big change.

As you’ve wanted good mpg while towing a travel trailer (and I’ve been at it nearly fifty years) the concerns I related above are directly related to maximizing economy. As that is thru steering & braking (stability) get a start. Get the baseline numbers.

Glad you’ve found something you like.

With a 4.6 L engine, there's no such thing :D

(except when towing)