EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   Motorcycles / Scooters (https://ecomodder.com/forum/motorcycles-scooters.html)
-   -   out of my mind and broke (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/out-my-mind-broke-19253.html)

funbuddy 10-22-2011 02:21 AM

out of my mind and broke
 
I have been waiting years to get another bike since my fzr 600 and every year it's something else that pops up and I must use money for it. I just quit my great paying job of long distance tractor trailer driving to be with my wife and son and drive locally. I was looking online for bikes and saw great deals EX: 2008 cbr 1000rr for $2800, guess someone really wanted to get rid of it. But I don't have that kind of money now. So what did I do? I just purchased a X18 R super pocket rocket. Once you stop laughing please read on. Does anyone know how I will be able to up the performance, maybe get 75mph out of the bike? And what is the reputation for these bikes? Thank you, and hope I made you laugh. See you on the streets. Got the bike and making mods already. Chinese POS but it's my POS, and it looks great and so far performing well.

btracing 10-22-2011 09:04 AM

If I was you, I would be looking for a 250cc Japanese bike. Honda CB250, Kawasaki Ninja 250, or something like that. Get one that's already ten years old or so. Doesn't cost a lot and these bikes are very durable + economical. A CBR 1000 is fun, but also costs a lot more to run and maintain. Gas guzzler bikes!

Patrick 10-22-2011 10:32 AM

If you want to spend time with your wife and son, don't ride a crotch rocket. :D

alvaro84 10-22-2011 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btracing (Post 266699)
If I was you, I would be looking for a 250cc Japanese bike. Honda CB250, Kawasaki Ninja 250, or something like that. Get one that's already ten years old or so. Doesn't cost a lot and these bikes are very durable + economical. A CBR 1000 is fun, but also costs a lot more to run and maintain. Gas guzzler bikes!

I second.
F650CSs/GSs are quite good at FE too (could be 250s by their appetite) and fun (if you happen to like singles), but they're not really cheap.

FXSTi 10-22-2011 07:36 PM

First, I'm not laughing. I just Google'd that bike. Not bad at $679 plus another $100 in shipping and you're in the wind.

Second, the ad claims up to 70+ mph. It is a 110cc bike, in many states you need more than that to get on the freeways. Some states want 125cc's and others want 225. So, it sounds like it will be plenty fast enough for non-freeway use.

Finally from what I have seen these bike use an engine based on really old Honda motors and some parts are interchangeable. I had a 1983 110cc Honda three wheeler that went for years with basic maintenance, so who knows, you might get lucky. Enjoys it for what it is.

renault_megane_dci 12-01-2011 03:47 PM

What is the use of the bike ?
Commuting with as less fuel as possible or blasting around ?

If the first, I'd say work on aerodynamics then gear up.

If the second then performance parts to add some extra rpm on top of what's already there.
I understand those horizontal single respond well to freer flowing inlets and obviously a longer duration cam.
Or maybe extra capacity ?
Once you get those extra MPH, you might realize it is still bloody slow (not to mention the likelihood of it breaking down) compared to whatever else you might have bought with the money, say one of those late 70's 400 cc japanese bikes ...

FXSTi 12-01-2011 05:28 PM

Were you able to plate that bike?

Kirk

thomason2wheels 10-17-2012 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbuddy (Post 266672)
I have been waiting years to get another bike since my fzr 600 and every year it's something else that pops up and I must use money for it. I just quit my great paying job of long distance tractor trailer driving to be with my wife and son and drive locally. I was looking online for bikes and saw great deals EX: 2008 cbr 1000rr for $2800, guess someone really wanted to get rid of it. But I don't have that kind of money now. So what did I do? I just purchased a X18 R super pocket rocket. Once you stop laughing please read on. Does anyone know how I will be able to up the performance, maybe get 75mph out of the bike? And what is the reputation for these bikes? Thank you, and hope I made you laugh. See you on the streets. Got the bike and making mods already. Chinese POS but it's my POS, and it looks great and so far performing well.

There are some acceptable quality chinese bikes so i have heard. I had one for a year and it was a total POS. Sold it for what i paid for it, bought a yamaha majesty which was the best balance of performance and economy with a very high build quality of any bike i have owned. They are out there used for reasonablemoney, 70 mpg, 100 mph top speed, single cyl/w balance shaft. Take a look on fleabay and you will prob find one.

Motorandy123 11-07-2012 12:53 PM

Changing the sprockets would be the first thing to try. If it cannot pull a higher gear the normal intake and exhaust mods might help. It says 15 HP!? that cannot be true as my
170cc fuel injected scooter only make 15 HP. Matching the tubes going into the engine and a mild port job might give you a touch more power. Use thin synthetic oil and a iridium spark plug will help too. Use what you got! Enjoy it!

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-07-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btracing (Post 266699)
If I was you, I would be looking for a 250cc Japanese bike. Honda CB250, Kawasaki Ninja 250, or something like that. Get one that's already ten years old or so. Doesn't cost a lot and these bikes are very durable + economical. A CBR 1000 is fun, but also costs a lot more to run and maintain. Gas guzzler bikes!

250cc bikes usually have a decent performance in many conditions with a low running cost. But the Ninja 250 is not so good as far as low-end torque goes, even a Honda CBR250 despite being a single-cylinder in opposition to the parallel-twin Ninja is better for everyday street use.

sbestca 11-08-2012 10:09 PM

I run a 125 cc 2 stroke KTM dirt bike on the street. It is capable of over 140kph maximum speeds and sustained 120kph depending on sprocketing. You cannot just put the highest ratio on and expect good performance. Typically you have to experiment to have the maximum power arrive at the highest achievable speed. Any higher ratio lowers maximum speed and kills 1st gear performance. The 2 strokes especially are very susceptible to carb jetting. My initial highway fuel mileage was only 27-35mpg(imp) with the stock jetting. The 2 stroke would not my first choice for fuel mileage, but does prove you can still ride a small displacement bike on today's streets. Current fuel mileage is only about 55mpg(imp) maximum.

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._4936935_n.jpg

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto..._2896505_n.jpg

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-09-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbestca (Post 338886)
The 2 stroke would not my first choice for fuel mileage, but does prove you can still ride a small displacement bike on today's streets.

2-strokes can actually be a decent option while looking for a good fuel-efficiency while fitted with some upgrades such as direct injection. What surprises me is how they're currently neglected by mainstream motorcycle manufacturers such as Honda and even Yamaha...

workaround ideas to discuss among friends: Two-stroke engines: still a viable technology?

alvaro84 11-09-2012 03:54 PM

Although I hate and despise 2-strokes as they are now (I'm sorry, it might be a prejudice from my behalf), I find their simplicity appealing. I'd really like to see a cleaner and more effective direct injected variant on bikes, I'm really curious what kind of FE they could achieve. And I hope that they wouldn't smell of wasted fuel like the blue-smokey oldtimers and 'modern' scooters.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-09-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvaro84 (Post 339014)
Although I hate and despise 2-strokes as they are now (I'm sorry, it might be a prejudice from my behalf), I find their simplicity appealing. I'd really like to see a cleaner and more effective direct injected variant on bikes, I'm really curious what kind of FE they could achieve. And I hope that they wouldn't smell of wasted fuel like the blue-smokey oldtimers and 'modern' scooters.

Nowadays there are even some researches about ways to provide it a lube system similar to a 4-stroke, avoiding the smoke-belching from the oil. Anyway, vegetable-based oils such as Castor oil are good options to cut the smoke since they get more effectively blended with the gasoline and eventually with some ethanol content (E5/E10/E15 or higher). It's worth to note that many synthetic oils have the same lube properties as Castor oil and palm oil.

Michael Moore 11-09-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 339031)
Nowadays there are even some researches about ways to provide it a lube system similar to a 4-stroke, avoiding the smoke-belching from the oil.

Nothing new about that, the Wulf engine developed by Bernard Hooper has been around for decades:

BACKGROUND TO BERNARD HOOPER ENGINEERING LTD

and there are big two-stroke diesel engines with sealed crankcases.

cheers,
Michael

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-10-2012 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Moore (Post 339070)
Nothing new about that, the Wulf engine developed by Bernard Hooper has been around for decades:

BACKGROUND TO BERNARD HOOPER ENGINEERING LTD

I wasn't aware of that Wulf engine, but the ones I was already aware had more conventional pistons instead of those ported ones.
http://motor2t.net/indexI.htm - the developer of this one used some chainsaw engines as the base for the project but recently was intending to convert a Honda Cub engine to 2-stroke, altough I don't know if he already did it.

serialk11r 11-10-2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 339011)
2-strokes can actually be a decent option while looking for a good fuel-efficiency while fitted with some upgrades such as direct injection. What surprises me is how they're currently neglected by mainstream motorcycle manufacturers such as Honda and even Yamaha...

workaround ideas to discuss among friends: Two-stroke engines: still a viable technology?

I tried to find out just how much better the fuel efficiency is when direct injected...not that much data out there since mainstream manufacturers don't make direct injected 2 strokes.

I managed to find fuel economy numbers for I think ski doo ? snowmobiles. They had a direct injected 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. The 2 stroke was much lighter, but got worse (I think like 30% worse) fuel economy than the 4 stroke with equivalent power despite the direct injection.

I think the problem is that in a 2 stroke with fuel injection, the fuel has less than 180 crankshaft degrees to mix with the air, so the combustion efficiency is still pretty bad, just not quite as bad as in a carbureted 2 stroke.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-11-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialk11r (Post 339255)
I managed to find fuel economy numbers for I think ski doo ? snowmobiles. They had a direct injected 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. The 2 stroke was much lighter, but got worse (I think like 30% worse) fuel economy than the 4 stroke with equivalent power despite the direct injection.

When Ford tested 2-stroke engines in the Mk3 Fiesta and the Aspire, a 2-stroke 1.2L 3-banger had better fuel-efficiency than the stock 1.3L 4-banger, and it was the same system currently used in snowmobiles and outboard motors.

renault_megane_dci 11-16-2012 05:12 PM

Two strokes gets very poor MPG capacity wise because of therir very low CR.

No if the MPG is related to output rather than capacity, maybe it is a little better ?

sbestca 11-17-2012 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renault_megane_dci (Post 340348)
Two strokes gets very poor MPG capacity wise because of therir very low CR.
No if the MPG is related to output rather than capacity, maybe it is a little better ?

I think you are right.
My KTM125EXC motorbike gets 55mpg. Not very good for a 125 motorcycle but this is a full sized dirtbike with about 35-40hp. A similar 35hp fourstroke 230 lbs dirtbike would get about 55mpg too, in the manner I drive it.

Snowmobiles cannot be given MPG figures because conditions vary so wildly. When I go snowmobiling with a crowd, the 4 strokes typically take less fuel at the pumps, but often not by much. Especially considering the performance advantage most of the 2 strokes have. Modern fuel injected 2 stroke snowmobiles are remarkably frugal on fuel compared to the snowmobiles of yesterday.

Again in outboard motors. Modern 2 stroke outboards, even carbed models, are very good on fuel, almost as good as 4 stroke models and much, much lighter.

I think there is a future for 2 stroke advancement, with lean mixtures, ecological oils and efficient designs. 2 stroke diesels make a lot of sense, oil injection targeted at the bearings, and other innovations.

I am actually doing a lot of work on a Yamaha 200cc air cooled quad engine, trying to increase power over stock. This is a 17hp motor that my son and I have increased to over 30hp without a noticeable increase in fuel use (as determined by range and running time on the small tank).

There was mention of the low compression ratio typical in modern 2 strokes.
Not really a fair comparison. A 2 stroke can use 8:1 compression to make high HP because the exhaust pipe has a supercharging effect.
A modern 4 stroke bike engine uses up to 12:1 compression because the wild high rpm cam timing bleeds off so much of the compression pressure.

So much work as gone into weight reduction in modern cars.
A 2 stroke already meets that mark. Just think if we could be driving 500cc cars with variable port timing and exhaust length to give both power and economy. That 500cc motor could weigh less than 30kg (70 lbs) and put out more than 100hp with very few moving parts.

Michael Moore 11-17-2012 07:34 PM

A lot of fuel in a piston port 2T engine gets dumped unburned out of the exhaust port which is why a direct injection 2T that can wait until the exhaust is closed before putting in fuel will have much better fuel consumption.

A 2T generally has more than 1/2 the BMEP of a comparable 4T but has 2X the power strokes so you don't need as big of an engine to get comparable horsepower. The new Moto3 4T singles are probably not making any more (if as much) power than a 125GP 2T engine does.

cheers,
Michael

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-25-2012 02:38 AM

In spite of all the criticism, 2-strokes are still among the best options for fuel-savings and also maintenance cost-cutting.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com