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-   -   Pedal-operated parking brakes might influence the low demand for manual transmission? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/pedal-operated-parking-brakes-might-influence-low-demand-35423.html)

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-29-2017 01:15 AM

Pedal-operated parking brakes might influence the low demand for manual transmission?
 
The parking brake, or e-brake as some folks still mention it, might eventually also influence on how efficiently someone drives a different vehicle. Now that many newer cars actually have an electric push-button parking brake it became more common to see hill-start control on cars with manual transmission, while others keep the lever-operated which is particularly useful for me while starting uphill. Driving a vehicle with manual transmission and pedal-operated parking brake on the other hand is a PITA because it doesn't allow a progressive release, which often leads some folks to not match the clutch and throttle in the most efficient way.

Gasoline Fumes 07-29-2017 03:19 AM

I think phone in one hand and coffee in the other is more likely the cause of low demand.

Jez77 07-29-2017 03:39 AM

I blame traffic jams. Inching forwards in traffic for an hour is too hard on the clutch foot.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-29-2017 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jez77 (Post 546095)
I blame traffic jams. Inching forwards in traffic for an hour is too hard on the clutch foot.

Rush-hour traffic sucks. When the traffic jam reaches the access ramp of an overpass, like it happens quite often in a touristic city where I usually go on summer, sometimes my left knee gets extremely painful. But anyway, since I usually don't try the heel-toe while starting uphill and then have to use the parking brake to keep from backing down, a pedal-operated one always become another PITA when the car is fitted with a manual transmission.

freebeard 07-30-2017 01:28 PM

I dream of a diesel-electric hybrid future. Five-speed manual and stop-start.

I'm weak on the details of how that would work. Maybe a thumb-button on top of the shifter?

Fat Charlie 07-31-2017 11:40 AM

The handbrake takes up valuable cupholder real estate- and the transmission itself takes up (apparently) valuable mental real estate, forcing people to pay attention to the vehicle they're allegedly operating, plan more than half a second ahead and other non-Facebooky type things.

redpoint5 07-31-2017 12:49 PM

I've never used the brake to assist with hills. Even large hills, I'll roll back no more than a few centimeters. Just rev the engine and quickly let out the clutch to the point that at least the car isn't rolling backwards.

It seems crazy that automatic transmission cars have hill hold feature, or that people would care about that.

The thing I miss most about the absence of the hand brake is E-brake turns.

jamesqf 07-31-2017 03:12 PM

There are still vehicles with pedal-operated parking brakes? I think everything I've driven since the '60s is either a lever between the seats, or a handle under the dash.

rmay635703 07-31-2017 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 546305)
There are still vehicles with pedal-operated parking brakes? I think everything I've driven since the '60s is either a lever between the seats, or a handle under the dash.

Newer cars have a button, why? No idea

gone-ot 07-31-2017 06:19 PM

Our '14 Prius has a small, hanging, pedal...like european 'small' manual tranny pedals.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-01-2017 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 546288)
I've never used the brake to assist with hills.

I use it quite often. Last time I had to not use it was when I took my driving license test. Since my knees become quite painful sometimes, it feels quite discomfortable not being able to use the handbrake to assist on hill starts.


Quote:

Even large hills, I'll roll back no more than a few centimeters. Just rev the engine and quickly let out the clutch to the point that at least the car isn't rolling backwards.
Wasting more fuel and increasing clutch wear? I prefer to avoid that. Unfortunately, when I have to drive my dad's currently vehicle, I have no choice. It's an old Nissan XTerra with a regionally-sourced Diesel engine and 5-speed manual transmission.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie (Post 546282)
The handbrake takes up valuable cupholder real estate- and the transmission itself takes up (apparently) valuable mental real estate, forcing people to pay attention to the vehicle they're allegedly operating, plan more than half a second ahead and other non-Facebooky type things.

And it's often easier to implement some "space-saving" shifter, either a rotary-dial one which has been more common on newer models or a traditional collumn-shifter. OK, I know there were vehicles with manual transmission that had collumn-shifters, but the amount of gears in the newer ones would render this feature unpractical and harder to operate than a floor-shifter.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 546329)
Our '14 Prius has a small, hanging, pedal...like european 'small' manual tranny pedals.

It was quite surprising to me when I figured out the Prius and the Lexus CT200h have a pedal-operated parking brake, a feature which I saw more often on trucks.

freebeard 08-01-2017 02:00 AM

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...studebaker.jpg

My first car was a 1950 Studebaker. It had a hill holder:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-01-2017 02:07 AM

Those bullet-nose Studebakers seem to be far more advanced than I thought they were. Hill holders are becoming widespread in my country only recently.

jamesqf 08-01-2017 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 546361)
...a traditional collumn-shifter

Traditional? Another thing I can't remember having seen since the '60s - except, oddly enough, on the U-Haul truck my neigbor rented for moving. Took me a while to figure out where the shift lever was.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-04-2017 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 546401)
Another thing I can't remember having seen since the '60s - except, oddly enough, on the U-Haul truck my neigbor rented for moving. Took me a while to figure out where the shift lever was.

Well, even though nowadays its use has been pretty much restricted to full-size GM trucks, it used to be quite common even for some passenger cars (mostly full-sizes and fleet cars) until the early 2000s.

jamesqf 08-04-2017 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 546609)
...it used to be quite common even for some passenger cars (mostly full-sizes and fleet cars) until the early 2000s.

That explains why I've never encountered it - I don't do "full-size" vehicles :-)

freebeard 08-04-2017 05:43 PM

Another thing the 1950 Studebaker had. That, and a deeply recessed dash — like a Tucker. They were competing with Nash, and it's reclining seats, for the drive-in movie-goers. ;)

Note also the suicide rear doors on the four-door.

gone-ot 08-04-2017 09:21 PM

My parents had a 1951 four door which they bought while in Panama. It was a made-in-Canada 6-cylinder model with 3-speed column shifter...and NO heater. When we moved from Panama back to the USA and settled in San Francisco, CA, Dad and I had to order and install the Studebaker "heater kit" which sat right under the front passenger seat, blowing air forward and backward into cabin areas.

Both my Dad and I referred to it as 'Old Bullet Nose.'

freebeard 08-04-2017 11:52 PM

Mine said 'Snake Pit' right on the rear fender.

My grandmother had a 1951 2-door sedan; she traded it for a Ford Falcon without giving me a shot at it. I was driving a 1953 Plymouth convertible at the time.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-05-2017 06:45 AM

IIRC my dad learned how to drive on a Brazilian Chevrolet C-10 with that local 2-door double-cab and 3-on-the-tree. Similar to this blue one, but that was white, issued to my grandpa by the governmental agency where he worked. IIRC those were fitted from the factory with an under-dash parking brake lever.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HfKJ3PG29A.../Photo1651.jpg
Subsequent square-bodied Chevy trucks turned to the pedal-controlled parking brake, which IMO are a PITA when fitted to a vehicle with manual transmission for anyone who can't do the punta-tacco (or heel-toe).

Dad currently owns a Nissan XTerra fitted with a locally-sourced Diesel engine and a 5-speed manual transmission, and sometimes it does become a PITA to start uphill. Sometimes I actually consider converting its parking brake from pedal-controlled to hand-controlled.

Xist 08-17-2017 01:27 PM

I do not like column shifters, I shift extra-carefully and often seem to still shift into the wrong gear.

I stopped trying to coast in neutral, with reverse in the next spot.

The other night a teacher told me she could not multitask shifting and driving. As I drove home I realized I did not even think about shifting.

jamesqf 08-17-2017 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 547651)
I stopped trying to coast in neutral, with reverse in the next spot.

I was told (long ago, so maybe designs have changed) that it wasn't good for the transmission to coast in neutral, or tow the car with the drive wheels on the ground.

PS: Yes, I'm assuming automatic transmission here, from neutral/reverse being next to each other. I know there were once manual transmissions with column-mounted shift levers (family had one when I was a kid), but I don't recall ever having driven one.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-20-2017 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 547655)
I was told (long ago, so maybe designs have changed) that it wasn't good for the transmission to coast in neutral, or tow the car with the drive wheels on the ground.

Unsuitability for flat-towing become more frequent in newer cars. Older ones with manual transmission were safer for flat-towing.

Xist 08-20-2017 12:26 PM

I thought it was just automatic transmissions.

gumby79 08-20-2017 03:57 PM

Personal definitions
Foot Brake : normal service brakes.
Emergency Brake: hand operated
Parking Brake :foot operated
A hand brake is easyer and safer to use to stop with during a brake failure. Back in 1999 Ihad a master cylinder fail on the off ramp @70mph, with a blocked intersection at the bottom. I tryed the parking brake it locked immediately, and the detent held it locked. Rear lockups are no fun @70. So drop into 2nd gear(auto)pop the park brake ,bending the lever over (prevent further problems trying ro modulate apply presure turning it into an emergency brake). Wile turning to correct for the slide. Long story short
No crash. t-case newly formed emergency brake and auto trans saved the day, I don't think I'd have been as lucky with a manual trans 4pedles ,3 in use 2 simultaneously modulating more than my ankles can move.

Quote:

It seems crazy that automatic transmission cars have hill hold feature, or that people would care about that.
Its a manual feacher.
My 06 Subaru Forrester XT (big body WRX) had it loved it till i was going down hill on a dirt road ~30-50 slope 1st and rideing the brakes was too fast , hit the cluch and lost the ability to modulate brake presure causing a 4wheel slide @ .25 mph had to release the clutch to release the foot brake. As with all things there aer +and -.

Flat tow /drive wheel down
All depends if there is spmething on the output shaft to move lube. Some manuals are not safe , almost all autos are not if in question call U-Haul. We had a book for hook up compatibility tell them you are planning on towing behund an RV . Many rigs have kits that add a pump to the trans or disconnect the driveline/shaft.
The big push for police to abandon Chrysler vehicles was burning out the transmission following a persuit. Cause -no or low fluid cooling in Park the transmission needed to be in Neutral or a drive gear to activate the pump for cooling.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-22-2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 547930)
I thought it was just automatic transmissions.

Newer manuals are also not suitable for towing, but I don't know why. It does surprise me that for some manufacturers a 5-speed manual is OK for flat-towing while a 6-speed one is not.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-05-2017 01:55 AM

Just recently found out that Hyundai has offered both options for a pedal-activated and lever-controlled parking brake for the second generation of the Tucson, according to the markets and transmission type. Though I never actually saw one with manual transmission, which in Europe were fitted with a parking brake lever, the local ones with automatic transmission have the pedal. Still better than the electric parking brake fitted to the current generation.

Natalya 11-05-2017 02:27 PM

Cars aren't desirable or sexy anymore, driving isn't a mystical freedom-giving experience, no one likes being on the road, everyone is stuck in traffic because they work the same hours and drive at the same time, insurance is too expensive, car payments are too high.

Also most modern cars are ugly and boring utilitarian ****boxes with no soul.

"But I need 7 cupholders and 7 USB chargers and 7 seats so my family can play Nintendo games on their iPad while yelling at eachother about Kim Kardashian." No wonder everyone hates driving and cars.

Honestly I don't even know why cars exist anymore since in the collective psyche they're such a downer. And they break all the time.

P.S.:
Did you know "eachother" isn't a word? It should be. I don't ever say each-other. I say it more like ee-chother and I'm sure most of you do too.

freebeard 11-05-2017 04:34 PM

What is it you have against hyphenated-word-speak? :)

Quote:

Honestly I don't even know why cars exist anymore since in the collective psyche they're such a downer. And they break all the time.
I'd put it the other way around: Cars were more fun when they broke all the time. One of my favorite sights when I was growing up:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KWH3JNKfG...48355298_o.jpg
http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2017/11/once-upon-time-far-far-away-junk-yards.html

Look! an Willys_Americar! I will take it home and make it great again.

Lady Bird Johnston made them put up fences. :(

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 11-08-2017 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalya (Post 553490)
Cars aren't desirable or sexy anymore, driving isn't a mystical freedom-giving experience, no one likes being on the road, everyone is stuck in traffic because they work the same hours and drive at the same time, insurance is too expensive, car payments are too high.

No wonder many people are turning to either motorcycles or Uber. Anyway, for most of what I do I don't actually need a car, and could do some of the longer haul comfortably with a scooter or a small tricycle.


Quote:

Also most modern cars are ugly and boring utilitarian ****boxes with no soul.
Most modern cars are ugly and boring appliance-cars because they're the only ones most people can afford, especially considering many folks keep a car for shorter than it used to be common decades ago. You know, they need to get a newer one more frequently, so they might fool their neighbors into thinking they're comfortable on money.


Quote:

"But I need 7 cupholders and 7 USB chargers and 7 seats so my family can play Nintendo games on their iPad while yelling at eachother about Kim Kardashian."
And how many of those 7-seaters you see roaming around nearly empty?


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