Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now

Reply  Post New Thread
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-26-2010, 09:20 AM   #71 (permalink)
Basjoos Wannabe
ShadeTreeMech's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 870

The Van - '97 Mercury Villager gs
90 day: 19.8 mpg (US)

Lyle the Kindly Viking - '99 Volvo V70
90 day: 25.82 mpg (US)
Thanks: 174
Thanked 49 Times in 32 Posts
Sorry about the severly late reply, but better late than never.

Originally Posted by NachtRitter View Post
Hydro power is also questionable as a long term sustainable power source...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the facts concerning global warming are accurate, then there will be a higher proportion of the earth covered in water. Water always evaporates, and with higer temperatures, will do so more readily. The atmosphere will likely always have a saturation point in which water will have to condense and form rain and fall back to the ground.

Hydroelectric power harnesses the energy of the sun in the form of fallen rain. Even wind is created in part by solar energy. So assuming the sun continues as in the past, and the atmosphere remains more or less the same, and water vapor doesn't discover how to leave our planet, we'll always have rain. Which means we'll always have the ability to harness electricity from hydroelectric dams.

Is there a flaw to this logic? I'm not trying to upset anyone, only scratching my head in confusion over an apparent flaw in my train of thought.

RIP Maxima 1997-2012

Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

Old 08-26-2010, 01:20 PM   #72 (permalink)
NachtRitter's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 311 Times in 186 Posts
Shade -

Starting with a disclaimer: I have no way of knowing what will really happen, so all this is conjecture...

Here in Cali, and presumably in many other (though not all) locations that take advantage of hydroelectric power, the strategy is to use reservoirs with dams to capture the water so that it can be gradually fed through the hydro generators. The assumption is that the winters are cold enough to freeze the water in the mountains (e.g. snow & ice) so that there is, in effect, a natural reservoir which gradually replenishes the man-made reservoirs throughout the spring. Any excess amount of water that gets into the man-made reservoirs must be shunted through bypass gates in order to preserve the integrity of the dam. If there is a drought summer or less than average snowfall in the winter, the water release through the hydro generator must be rationed or even shut off completely in order to guarantee a minimum flow through the downstream river throughout the year.

It is possible that global warming / climate change can affect hydro power the following ways:
- As you noted, with more of the earth covered in water and with temperatures a bit higher, the water will evaporate more readily. And therefore it will come down more readily, and possibly (likely) in amounts that the man-made reservoirs were not designed for. Potentially even at such high amounts that the shunt gates cannot keep up with the in-flow. Once the reservoir reaches a max full level, the hydro generators need to be shut down for safety reasons.
- With higher temperatures, it's possible (likely) that the snow pack will be significantly reduced, which means nature's reservoir is reduced, and that there is not enough to gradually fill the man-made reservoir throughout the spring. In turn, there is not enough water to sustain the hydro power throughout the dry summer and early fall seasons.

Most (not all) hydro power systems are dependent on a natural reservoir of frozen water that feeds the man-made reservoir at a known rate (within a range) and a known amount (within a range) year over year. Presumably, the effect of global warming will completely invalidate those assumptions thereby making the existing hydro installations significantly less effective.

All this does assume that the global warming-era typical rainstorms will be more torrential, so that a much greater proportion of water that does fall ends up being unusable for power generation.

On the other hand, it just might work out for the better, with more water available throughout the year such that the man-made reservoir is always full enough, but never too full, for constant hydro power generation... who knows...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 03:43 PM   #73 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
UFO's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 178 Times in 138 Posts
My poison? Biodiesel.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2010, 04:06 PM   #74 (permalink)
...beats walking...
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,522 Times in 1,123 Posts
...we used to buy Conoco, but switched to Shell when they came IN and all the Texaco stations went OUT of Tucson.

...although we still have a credit card, we're boycotting Exxon/Mobil.

...where's a good 'old' Sinclair Oil (dinosaur) station when you need one?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2010, 09:57 PM   #75 (permalink)
Intermediate EcoDriver
Mustang Dave's Avatar
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern Arizona - It's a DRY cold..
Posts: 669

Trigger - '07 Ford Mustang V6 Premium Coupe
Team Mustang
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.24 mpg (US)

Big Red (retired) - '89 Ford F-250 4wd Custom
90 day: 18.13 mpg (US)

Big Red II - '13 Ford F-150 FX4
90 day: 19.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 162
Thanked 129 Times in 102 Posts
...where's a good 'old' Sinclair Oil (dinosaur) station when you need one?
Little America in Flagstaff. I rarely buy fuel there anymore - Safeway's less expensive.
Fuel economy is nice, but sometimes I just gotta put the spurs to my pony!

Originally Posted by thatguitarguy View Post
Just 'cuz you can't do it, don't mean it can't be done...
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
The presence of traffic is the single most complicating factor of hypermiling. I know what I'm going to do, it's contending with whatever the hell all these other people are going to do that makes things hard.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2010, 04:29 PM   #76 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 744

redyaris - '07 Toyota Yaris
Team Toyota
90 day: 45.54 mpg (US)

Gray - '07 Suzuki GS500 F
90 day: 70.4 mpg (US)

streamliner1 - '83 Honda VT500 streamliner
90 day: 75.63 mpg (US)

White Whale - '12 Sprinter 2500 Cargo Van
90 day: 22.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 81
Thanked 75 Times in 67 Posts
I suspect that choosing between oil companies is like choosing between cell mate in a maximum security prison... there are no good choises, the best we can do is reduce or eliminate our exposure to them; with better fuel consumption, or no fuel consumption.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2010, 05:03 PM   #77 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
UFO's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 178 Times in 138 Posts
Exactly. Choose open source fuel. Preferably renewable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 06:51 PM   #78 (permalink)
imported Appalachian
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 70

Yoda - '97 Toyota Corolla Base
90 day: 30.51 mpg (US)

She-Ra - '03 Honda Accord EX
90 day: 22.91 mpg (US)

Thor - '04 Toyota 4Runner SR5
90 day: 18.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 49
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
What makes you think that poor Chinese and Indians will be able to afford it and "most of us" won't? Just curious.
Easy. There are a lot more of them than there are of us.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:07 PM   #79 (permalink)
Ultimate Fail
Cd's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,340
Thanks: 2,690
Thanked 937 Times in 556 Posts
I just read that BP profits are up 1.8 Billion despite their loss from their f-up in the Gulf.

Despite the 'spill' new areas in the Gulf are now being set up to drill into.

Nothing changes. Greed prevails.

Last edited by Cd; 11-11-2010 at 09:13 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2010, 08:21 PM   #80 (permalink)
Chevy and CB Radio Lover
Jammer's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: East Kentucky
Posts: 302
Thanks: 13
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to Jammer
I should of known that BP would still make a large profit, but I wonder how much of the pie is from sales of fuel versus sales of soda-pop, candy, lotto tickets, cigs all being sold in thier gas stations. I get the feeling the gas gets the customers to stop, but the hard profit is made on all the over price junk they sell inside every station.

Check out BP Solar. It turns out the are heavy vested into solar systems for homes! BP is more diversified than many think.


Support American
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com