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-   -   (Poll) Have any of you replaced your catalytic converter? (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/poll-have-any-you-replaced-your-catalytic-converter-35570.html)

Xist 09-01-2017 03:29 AM

(Poll) Have any of you replaced your catalytic converter?
 
I think the most important issue here is why do I phrase all of my threads the same way? I just want to document my personal experience without muddying the waters of http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...hod-35264.html. In fact, I plan on going back and editing my posts there. I intended on cleaning my cat until I realized how cheap it is.

I recently had a P0420 indicating my catalytic converter is failing. My original cat did not last eighteen years, this was an aftermarket one, and I would not expect them to accept this core if I waited until I could afford a Honda unit. I have had the car for twelve months and 10,000 miles. My brother-in-law installed this Evan Fischer CC almost two years before they sold me the car. The only ones I find are around $110, so I feel it worked surprisingly well, although I would want to replace it with something better.

However, I cannot find any hard data on which cats last longest. Federal law requires a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty, but somehow that only half applies to the catalyst that actually does the converting.

I found a survey of which brand CC Xterra owners would install and Eastern Catalytic came out on top, then Walker, Nissan and Magnaflow, Bosal, Davico and some brand I cannot find, and nobody for Pacesetter. Evan Fischer was not mentioned, but it seemed to be the most popular brand on JC Whitney, although it only earned 3.7 stars.

Have you replaced your catalytic converter?
-When did you replace? (xxx,xxx mi)?
-What brand?
-How well did it fit? IE was it bent wrong, missing bolts etc)
-How many miles since you replaced?
-Have any codes returned?
-Do you recommend, and any feedback?

(original survey: Replacement Cat Converter Choice Tracking Feedback/Discussion (re: P0420, P0430) - Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums (2005+))

BLSTIC 09-01-2017 03:38 AM

On a related note...
I heard that running alcohol fuels can clean a lead impregnated o2 sensor.

JockoT 09-01-2017 04:27 AM

I bought a "BM Catalysts" approved cat. 70.96 +VAT.
It fitted perfectly, has only been on the car for about 3000 miles, but has passed an emissions test since fitting.
There was nothing wrong with the old one (94000 miles) apart from the bolts being rusted solid and unable to separate from failed exhaust box. It was cheaper to replace it than have the garage spending time trying to split them.
In the UK most catalytic converters rust out before they fail for emissions. Leaded fuel is no longer available, so you cannot foul the cat by using that.

hamsterpower 09-01-2017 06:45 AM

I've installed "Random Technology" cats on three different Hondas over the years. Two were because the shell had rusted too much to disassemble when repairing the rest of the exhaust. One was for a failed Cat ECU code. That proceeded to fail again in 6 months. If you get a failed/failing code, that is a symptom of issues upstream that must be fixed first. Often leaking injectors running way rich or bad O2 sensor. Those will clog or burn out the ceramic media.
I have nearly 60K/8years on the current one. Only issue is the shell is starting rust again. Fit was perfect each time.

Stubby79 09-01-2017 09:03 AM

I've put on two Magnaflow catalyitic converters. Stainless, so never had an issue with rust. One was on an OBD2 car, with a custom made exhaust, and never had any issues with the computer tripping a code for it, even years late. The other is on my Miata, which is OBD1 so it doesn't monitor the cat, but it put up with running a bit rich for ages without an issue, and it was a direct and easy bolt-on fit.

Fat Charlie 09-01-2017 09:54 AM

Never have, personally.

But when I do replace cats (I'm a parts guy), I replace with OE.

California98Civic 09-01-2017 12:59 PM

I cleaned mine. If I had to replace, I'd go OEM from a discount site.

gumby79 09-01-2017 01:51 PM

+1 on finding the cause of the failure insted of just fixing the symptoms of the failure.
Quote:

Have you replaced your catalytic converter?
-When did you replace? (xxx,xxx mi)?
-What brand?
-How well did it fit? IE was it bent wrong, missing bolts etc)
-How many miles since you replaced?
-Have any codes returned?
-Do you recommend, and any feedback?

Yes 4 on 4diffrent rigs. 83GMC S-15 Jimmy 2.8 v6 and an 89 Hyundai Excel , and moms 89 Mazda b2300 and 97 geo prism

120ish and 180ish 210ish were obd1 computer controled carburetor rigs 90,000 geo is obd2 all prior to 2003

3 were the universal fit (.5L-7L)3.5" pipe. Requires extra parts to adapt it in (less than the extra $1-200for the direct fit) the 97 is part of the cast iorn ehxaust manifold and no room tor an inline without melting something in the floor

The Jimmy was my first car and I flogged that dog. (Drove it like a kid 130+mph ) new cat lasted about 1 year then went to strate pipe for 6 months before the rig cried uncle. Failure was driving conditions cats dont like water be they fuzzy or ceramic. Hard driving+deep water = thermal shock followed by melting the insert on subsequent runs.
The Excel ate the cat from bad parts up streem sold the car prior to any further issues coming up.
The geo was done in 03 and is still on the road. Mom hant told me of a new cat being needed.

Zinc was removed from motor oil in2010 for improving life span of catalytic converters . Zinc is a toxin to CC's and EPA bumped the manufacturers required warranty life span from 60k to 100k on emissions parts.

JockoT 09-01-2017 01:57 PM

A genuine Honda cat for my 2006 Jazz is 1200. If I only get 6 months out of my 85 one I can keep replacing it for 14 years before I spend that.

Xist 09-01-2017 02:15 PM

Bell Honda in Phoenix offers a 15% military discount on parts. They do not say what the retail price for a catalytic converter is, but they ask $1,319.12. Supposedly that would be $1,225.52 with tax and the discount, but there may already be an Internet discount. Tempe Honda does not offer a military discount, but they charge $648.81 with tax for the same part. Majestic asks $650.98 to ship one and says the retail price is $659.22. Honda Parts Network beats Majestic's price by $42.21. Bernardi Honda does not mention the core and will ship it for $477.
I spent last night and this morning trying to find a cat here in-town, in Flagstaff, and in Show Low, and checking out dealerships in the valley. I had planned on driving to Mom's yesterday, fixing her lawnmower, trimming her lawn, and making her angry by setting up shelves and organizing part of her garage.
All that I have really learned is Page is a difficult place for me to try to take care of things.

vskid3 09-01-2017 03:13 PM

Unless you plan on keeping the car forever or installation is expensive, you might be better off financially going with another $110 cat.

Xist 09-01-2017 03:22 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by hamsterpower (Post 548693)
If you get a failed/failing code, that is a symptom of issues upstream that must be fixed first. Often leaking injectors running way rich or bad O2 sensor. Those will clog or burn out the ceramic media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gumby79 (Post 548716)
+1 on finding the cause of the failure insted of just fixing the symptoms of the failure.

Right. That. I think I even commented on that somewhere.

Well, of course the cat manufacturer is pointing the blame elsewhere, but they are using big words and pretty pictures, so they must be correct. Their example of an overheated catalytic converter:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1504292536

Mine:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1504292575

They do not show the inside, though. Mine is not melted at all, although a chunk of carbon came out of the bung hole. I have an "Atomic Beam" flashlight and cannot see anything in there, but I can see perfectly from one end to the other.

Quote:

Excessive rich fuel conditions and exhaust leaks ahead of the converter are prime examples. They result in higher than normal temperatures that can cause matting erosion and burn away or melt converter coatings. If temperatures are high enough, the ceramic substrate itself will melt and clog.
Look upstream for the culprit in a converter failure - Eastern Manufacturing

I called Mom's shop because I feel they have always been honest and good, but they were busy, so she said she would call me back with a quote. They use Magnaflow and Imco.

Imco? Great! I never heard of them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JockoT (Post 548717)
A genuine Honda cat for my 2006 Jazz is 1200. If I only get 6 months out of my 85 one I can keep replacing it for 14 years before I spend that.

Doesn't Scotland do warranties?

JockoT 09-01-2017 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 548726)
Doesn't Scotland do warranties?

Yes we do. I fully expect to get the rest of my time with this car without having to change the cat again. The cat will probably outlive the body shell.
My point was, I could change it every six months and still be in pocket.

gumby79 09-01-2017 06:09 PM

Quote:

. They result in higher than normal temperatures that can cause matting erosion and burn away or melt converter coatings. If temperatures are high enough, the ceramic substrate itself will melt and clog
I read this as a timeline/ sequence of events. First it matting erosion and burn away or melt converter coatings. The point of failure you may be at no deformation of the honeycomb. Then if the problem persists or gets worce then you melt the honeycomb.
Have you checked the operating temp with a IR temp gun? ($20 horbor fraight) at the end of a long +mi run would be good or rushhour.

redpoint5 09-01-2017 07:32 PM

I usually just knock out the honeycomb and drive on with the CEL. One time I bought a no-name cat for $120 and it didn't resolve the P0420 CEL.

I'd be more inclined to spoof the downstream O2 sensor via thread extension or some other method than wasting time and money trying to legitimately pass stupid inspections. That said, I wouldn't run a car that is smoking or otherwise running poorly.

Xist 09-02-2017 03:58 AM

https://youtu.be/_hREmy9mEvs

https://youtu.be/JGBe5OQg410

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...nverter-face-/

They gained one or two horsepower in specific parts of the power band, while the rest was the same or a tiny bit lower.

If I decided to get rid of my car I would recycle it and install a straight pipe.

Turning precious metals into a mess confuses me.

JockoT 09-02-2017 04:11 AM

The emissions tests, here in the UK, actually involve sampling the exhaust gas. It doesn't matter what the codes say, it is what comes out the tailpipe that decides whether the car is passed as fit for the road. No MOT, no insurance or Road Fund Licence. No insurance and if you are caught driving on the road the car can end up in the crusher!

Xist 09-02-2017 08:51 AM

Not the crusher!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a4af7df7b...9htso1_500.gif

gumby79 09-03-2017 01:52 PM

We need that hear in the states

hotwheel 09-05-2017 07:38 AM

I haven't personally replaced a cat converter yet, but I helped my friend and we used OEM and it hasn't caused any problems yet, afaik

Rosieuk 09-05-2017 09:28 AM

Replacing it tomorrow at 2pm, or rather the garage is.. desperation measure because I've replaced practically everything else. Idle misfire that isn't, in order, plugs, coil, injectors, isc, map/iat because they've all been changed or tested working perfectly. Once it hits 1300-1500rpm depending on its mood it feels like someone strapped a turbo on it (the first time I almost planted it in a wall), idle fuel has gone from 2.8 to 3.4l/h on the HUD but everything above 1300rpm perfectly normal. It's been running rich which I can now only assume is to do with the downstream O2 getting brain weebles and reporting lean after the cat, so the mixture goes rich. Everything screams blockage.. oh and on start up it creates the most amazing stink known to human kind..
The replacement is a Klarius maniverter, which I have HT painted in black to protect it a little and help it radiate some heat. If I can get a unit for 130 I'm not going to drop 400 for the manufacturer one, but I'll be really annoyed if it turns out to solve the problem because all the experts have told me I'm wrong for over a year..

Xist 09-05-2017 10:05 AM

Rosie, thank you for sharing. Have you asked on forums specifically for your car or on https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/? I have gotten some good help there. Good luck! :)

chefdave 09-05-2017 10:33 AM

Had a 200 cell replacement cat when my exhaust fell off. Dealer quoted 600 for cat. Whole custom exhaust made out of stainless steel is still going 12 years later. Total cost of exhaust was 500 fitted. Any issues take back and will sort it same day if possiable.

jcp123 09-05-2017 01:40 PM

Ooh, I wish I could remember the cat I'd put on my Echo. It lasted less than 18 months. Never bothered to replace it again, so it ran with essentially a bad cat for ~2.5-3yrs.

Eastern was always the one recommended to me if I'd wanted to get something quality, but $130 installed was too good a deal to pass up on a car worth well under $1000.

Xist 09-05-2017 07:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1504654236

Yeah, cats cost more for a 2000 Echo than my Civic for some reason. Rockauto would charge $256.79 for a 48-state Eastern CC.

Installation is free if you have a wrench! :)

Rosieuk 09-07-2017 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 549062)
Rosie, thank you for sharing. Have you asked on forums specifically for your car or on https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/? I have gotten some good help there. Good luck! :)

I've looked on Hyundai forums and all over the place, all the advice has been about as useful as a chocolate teapot, replace this, replace that. The new cat is definitely better, runs at about 300c on the top and it's breathing better. Garage did their usual crappy job courtesy of Master Monobrow. Tore up the heatshield which is almost impossible to replace.. I suspect it's the inlet manifold (they're known for it) but that's a whole lot more hassle and expense.
I'd rather leave stuff like that to garages, although I usually source parts myself. I had skin cancer removed (they might as well have used a chainsaw looking at the scar) from my arm in December and have just been diagnosed with CFS and my back is wrecked courtesy of incompetent doctors, so bending and working with heavy parts is not a great move for me..
Still it looks a lot better painted up and fitted than the old one, and it doesn't seem that the bad idle is upsetting it any.. it's going into another garage for a full check over anyway before MOT.

Xist 11-22-2017 10:14 AM

I did a great deal of research way back when, but I am not sure that I kept anything but OEM prices. California98Civic helped me use the method he described here. The code kept coming back every 500-1000 miles. I dropped my cat in boiling acid and the code stayed away for 5,012 miles.

Should I try again or finally replace it?

jcp123 11-24-2017 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 549117)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1504654236

Yeah, cats cost more for a 2000 Echo than my Civic for some reason. Rockauto would charge $256.79 for a 48-state Eastern CC.

Installation is free if you have a wrench! :)

At the time I'd just inherited the car. Knew little about emissions-controlled vehicles. The car ran badly, etc. Fixed the cat not knowing the running issues killed cats (dirty MAF, running lean causing high exhaust temps and burning the cat).

I don't regret it, really. It was still marginal enough to get me through annual inspection, and the car taught me a lot about how modern OBDII cars run and can be diagnosed.

Xist 11-24-2017 09:18 AM

I still have not changed the timing belt. The last few weeks have been very busy for me. but I have the crazy compulsion to clean out my engine compartment and check for leaks before starting work. The thing is, I have not noticed any drips, but I am definitely losing oil. Everyone says that is normal for a car with over 100,000 miles, but the engine must be burning it, and that very well may be what killed the cat.
It probably burned two quarts of oil in the 5,000 miles since I cleaned the cat. Maybe that was just enough oil to drop the cat below threshold.
I plan on replacing the gaskets and seals when I replace the timing belt, but I do not imagine that finding faulty gaskets and seals inside of the engine is easy.

California98Civic 11-24-2017 09:36 AM

I think investigating possible oil burning is important. Two quarts in a few thousand miles is a lot of missing oil. Have you inspected spark plugs and exhaust for signs of oil burning? Do both dry and wet compression tests, too.

FWIW, I had no CEL when I cleaned my CAT. And I have no CEL now, maybe 15,000 miles later.

Xist 11-24-2017 10:30 AM

Well, do I rent a compression tester up here (and make sure I return it fast enough), or wait until I am home? :)

California98Civic 11-24-2017 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 554834)
Well, do I rent a compression tester up here (and make sure I return it fast enough), or wait until I am home? :)

wait til you're home. You can't fix any problems probably until you are home anyway. But bring plenty of oil along for the drive home! :eek:

Xist 11-24-2017 01:22 PM

I brought my ratchet and socket set for some project a month or two back and have kept it in my car.

Same with Napa's largest truck jack, but I do not want to lug that out of my trunk and find a place for it.

I check my oil every thousand miles and usually add half a quart.

Xist 11-26-2017 11:42 AM

I did a quick search for burning oil and almost everyone said to check the PCV valve. I keep trying to remember to spray Simple Green on my engine and wash it off before driving. I figure that will help me find any leaks.

I also want to figure out a grill block. My fuel economy keeps going down!

Rosieuk 12-29-2017 11:38 AM

An update on the story. Its been in the garage for three MONTHS. I've just turned 1000 miles on the hire car I've been using. The UK head of engineering for Hyundai is apparently getting involved and so far replaced parts.. that I know of..

2 lifters
12 valve springs
2 valves

the heads been on and off more times than the average lightswitch and they *still* can't find the problem. Yet with aero mods, pulse and coast and fuel octane additive it was doing 42mpg before it went in in September. The Kia Rio with the 16v version of the same engine is barely managing 36.

what's really annoying me is the guy is refusing to give it back until he's fixed it while I'm stuck with a blatantly obvious courtesy car with a 1000 insurance excess!

Xist 12-29-2017 11:45 PM

I wish that I knew how to help, but it takes me three weeks to figure out how to replace a light bulb.

Baltothewolf 12-30-2017 12:21 AM

I always replace mine with a crowbar as long as it's a 2000+ yr car.

Xist 12-30-2017 12:51 AM

Do you ride it like a witch's broom?

mattrod 01-18-2018 03:28 AM

I've had my Magnaflow on for 4 years without any problem.

Xist 07-14-2018 03:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
On September First 2017, Bell Honda in Phoenix asked $1,319.12 for a catalytic converter, although they offer a 15% military discount on parts. Today they are asking over $2,100, almost $500 more than what Kelley Blue Book says my car is worth.
Tempe Honda charged $648.81 with tax, but now they want $1,036.83.
Majestic has gone from $650.98 to ship one to $895.62.
Honda Parts Network went from $608.77 to $848.58.
Bernardi Honda does not mention the core and would have shipped it for $477, but now they want $1,124.64.
Manly Honda has the best deal I can find now, they will ship for $726.65, and do not mention a core, but that is almost three times what I paid for the car! As much as I prefer to put Honda parts in my Honda, I cannot imagine a scenario where putting a $727 part that should last decades into a nineteen year-old car with 195,000 miles makes sense. I had hoped to reduce the oil burning by replacing the seals when I changed the timing belt. Hopefully I decreased the leakage, which did not seem to be a problem, although some of the seals appeared questionable. I planned on acid-washing my cat and still will, but I do not have any reason to believe that it will burn less oil now, nor that acid-washing would keep CELs away for more than 5,000 miles.

Looking at aftermarket cats, I see:
Magnaflow: O’Reilly’s: $182, AutoZone: $194, Napa: $195, and Amazon: $144.
More expensive Magnaflow: O’Reilly’s: $280, AutoZone: $267, Napa: $275, and Amazon: $266.
Walker: AutoZone: $179, Napa Solutions: $267, Amazon: $113, and RockAuto: $142.
More expensive Walker: AutoZone: $267, Napa Solutions: $456, Amazon: $144, and RockAuto: $251.
Bosal: AutoZone: $186, Napa $195, Amazon $178, and RockAuto: $151.
More expensive Bosal with the oxygen sensor in the wrong place: AutoZone: $212, Napa: $219, Amazon: $104!, and RockAuto: $158.
Most expensive Bosal: AutoZone: $305, Napa $315, Amazon $227, and RockAuto: $214.

As much as I like the idea of walking into a store and ordering a replacement, Amazon has the best price on 5/7 of those, as little as $1, but $312 for the more expensive Walker, less than a third as much as Napa charges! RockAuto is $13 - $27 less on two of those.

Napa labels the Walkers as Napa Solutions, so Napa considers Walkers to be the best? In our survey, two people recommended Magnaflow, one suggested OEM, and seven said Other (BM Catalyst, Random Technology, custom, unknown, and perhaps three people said they chopped it up fine and inhaled it).

RockAuto and Amazon also carry Eastern Catalytic, which was the top pick of Xterra owners. RockAuto charges $158 for the cheaper one. Amazon asks $148: Eastern 40234 Catalytic Converter
...and $202! Amazon is lower than anywhere listed in Google Shopping.

Then again, there is the evil twin of my current cat: https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1531554572 $86 shipped via Amazon.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1504292575

If I play my cards right I could be the proud owner of two failed cats! :D


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