Stopped being a Lurker today... Hi, my name is Clint and I'm an aerohaulic - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

Wolfwhistle · 06-26-2014, 02:31 PM

I thought of choosing a handle like "SlipperyBrick" But, it wouldn't be long before "Dumb-as-aBrick" would occur to someone. I have been reading and enjoying the creativity and just plain cool crap you guys can come up with. I might have found a new hobby! I have certainly found entertainment! The combined wealth of knowledge both learned and, if you will excuse the term, God given, I see here is pretty amazing. The best thing is how you guys and I assume gals, help each other and most of the time without fighting. Clearly, there is differences in opinions here. I haven't read every post (yet!) but wonder if anyone has considered this. What if you build a wide and close to the ground air dam, but rather it being solid and pushing air aside just behind the point of impact... right at the front, could we cut a very flat and wide hole, nearly inside wheel to inside wheel... a duct or collector if you will, that connects to a very flat and wide duct that extends to the rear of the vehicle? Essentially the dam would be a collector feeding a stream straightener. The smoothest full-length belly pan ever... could this air flow be directed into the nasty air behind a vehicle in some way (a way I wouldn't know how to do) and then be used lessen drag? I can see ground clearance and issue for some if not many vehicles. But, I am asking, could this work on others. Also, on any vehicle would it be possible to harness the 'unwanted' pressure and flow of air towards a wind powered generator while driving? It might not eliminate the need for an alternator / generator, but with an AC compressor type electric clutch on the Alternator, it could be kept turned off either automatically or manually when not needed, is it even feasible? The engine's power would not be taxed as much to generate DC. Thanks for letting me join and letting me do it for free... at least free to get started!!!

California98Civic · 06-26-2014, 03:05 PM

Welcome. What is it that you drive? Sounds a little like pitot tube, what you describe for the airdam.

Wolfwhistle · 06-26-2014, 03:41 PM

Yes, kind of like a 4" x 48" (MOL) pitot tube. The wife has a 2011 Ford Edge and is what we usually 'go' in, It gets mid 20 MPG, but I can 'baby' it to a little over 30 MPG.... a 2012 Ram CTD 2500 (pulls a toy hauler), a 2010 Triumph Thunderbird 1600 and a nearly finished 200 CID, 1966 Mustang 2-door coupe. I need to get the stang on the road and leave the Ram at home! I can't imagine the stang being great on gas, but as for simplicity there isn't much easier to work on. The duct / dam idea came to me years ago when I owned a 66 VW bus, but never did it. I had batted around the idea of adding the duct, to provide the cooling air that would arrive from underneath... pulled up through the engine (hot air naturally rises) then sucked out the back through louvers and the 'great' negative pressure back there. I thought it would reduce drag and lower take a little load off the engine. Probably quite a bit.

elhigh · 06-26-2014, 03:55 PM

That Thriftpower Six, aka Falcon Six, can be a decent economy choice, the smallest version at 144 cu. in. could deliver up to 30mpg in the Falcon at the time. Your mileage may vary of course, but we also enjoy hugely improved technology and you may be able to do significantly better.

About your Stang: restoration, or restomod? If you're going full boat restoration, I will only stand back and admire without commenting except to say "Thanks" for keeping old iron rolling, but if you're going the restomod route you could pull the Thriftpower out of the bay and stick in a Lima 2.3 and a turbo, have all the power you can reasonably handle in that old chassis, and still get decent fuel economy.

Sort of a poor man's EcoBoost engine.

Wolfwhistle · 06-26-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhigh

That Thriftpower Six, aka Falcon Six, can be a decent economy choice, the smallest version at 144 cu. in. could deliver up to 30mpg in the Falcon at the time. Your mileage may vary of course, but we also enjoy hugely improved technology and you may be able to do significantly better.

About your Stang: restoration, or restomod? If you're going full boat restoration, I will only stand back and admire without commenting except to say "Thanks" for keeping old iron rolling, but if you're going the restomod route you could pull the Thriftpower out of the bay and stick in a Lima 2.3 and a turbo, have all the power you can reasonably handle in that old chassis, and still get decent fuel economy.

Sort of a poor man's EcoBoost engine.

I am restoring it, but not strictly. Close, but no cigar. I don't like the original color, so its covered with a Volvo medium Aqua pearl. More of a emerald green; the blue shows up in the sun. The dash was cut for a modern radio and I left it that way... installed a $50 ebay radio and $50 kicker 6x9s. Can't stand the light aqua headliner, so it has white, which is really an off white. Other than the headliner, the interior is the original (PITA to match, for the lack of a better term) aqua / turquoise. Auto with the tall stock gears... 2.91:1 I think... I added after market PDB; no PS; no AC for now. I would imagine it could get 26+ MPG, but we will see. I found 4 on 4 1/2 wheels that I am going to get. I will probably NOW, not go very wide on the tires.

Wolfwhistle · 06-26-2014, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elhigh

... if you're going the restomod route you could pull the Thriftpower out of the bay and stick in a Lima 2.3 and a turbo, have all the power you can reasonably handle in that old chassis, and still get decent fuel economy.

Sort of a poor man's EcoBoost engine.

I meant to ask, what is a Lima Turbo 2.3. A newer engine wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe I should found this site before I've rebuild engine, tranny and rear end!

elhigh · 06-27-2014, 08:20 AM

Also called the Pinto engine, Ford's first fully metric engine. People get very leery when they hear "Pinto," but of all the Pinto's problems the engine wasn't one. That engine saw long, reliable duty as the base engine in the Ranger, and the bottom end was sturdy enough that in the Mustang SVO it could deliver 175 horsepower without modification. That turbo engine DID suffer from reliability problems but they were related to the turbo, not the engine architecture itself.

FoMoCo cranked out the Lima 2.3 for over 20 years, so evidently it was worth building. I say that knowing the Thriftpower line went for FIFTY years but still, 20 is nothing to sneeze at.

mcrews · 06-27-2014, 01:45 PM

welcome!!
had a 200 66 yrs ago...first car.
I ran Clifford headers into a single muffler w/twin outlets into GT tips.
the rear end was a 2.89 (I believe) I use to get 27-30 on the road at 65mph.
You might consider a taller tire than stock if your on the freeway a lot.

mcrews · 06-27-2014, 01:46 PM

I also had a 79 pace care w/ the 2.3 turbo. Very fun car!!!

basjoos · 06-27-2014, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfwhistle

What if you build a wide and close to the ground air dam, but rather it being solid and pushing air aside just behind the point of impact... right at the front, could we cut a very flat and wide hole, nearly inside wheel to inside wheel... a duct or collector if you will, that connects to a very flat and wide duct that extends to the rear of the vehicle? Essentially the dam would be a collector feeding a stream straightener. The smoothest full-length belly pan ever... could this air flow be directed into the nasty air behind a vehicle in some way (a way I wouldn't know how to do) and then be used lessen drag? I can see ground clearance and issue for some if not many vehicles. But, I am asking, could this work on others.

Also, on any vehicle would it be possible to harness the 'unwanted' pressure and flow of air towards a wind powered generator while driving? It might not eliminate the need for an alternator / generator, but with an AC compressor type electric clutch on the Alternator, it could be kept turned off either automatically or manually when not needed, is it even feasible?

That's basically what I am doing with the underside of the aerocivic, except I'm not using an air dam to feed the duct. The front has a low stagnation point to divert most of the air over and around the car, which combined with an engine compartment underpanel to prevent the engine compartment from dumping air under the car, minimizes the amount of air passing under the car. The full length smooth underpanel is the top of the duct. the inside portion of the double side skirt are the sides of the duct and the road is the bottom of the duct. The side skirts are coroplast and can flex when they contact the road so ground clearance isn't a bottom. At the back the airflow under the car diffuses up to help fill the space under the boat tail.

Ideally you are trying to aeromod to reduce these "unwanted" pressure build ups. On normal cars, the high pressure zone at the base of the windshield is used to help move air through the air vents. On the aerocivic, I have reduced this high pressure zone so much that there is almost no air movement through the car's air vents unless I turn on the fan.

But even when there are high pressure zones around the car, the spinning prop on a wind powered generator (such as were used on some early aircraft to generate electricity) creates a lot of drag and leaves a long trail of turbulent air downstream of it. A Fly Baby pilot reported that when he installed a wind powered generator on his homebuilt aircraft to power some avionics, it knocked 5 mph off of his airspeed.