Price/kwh of energy
 

1. What's the price per kwh of, gasoline, hydrogen, LPG, and compressed natural gas? Where can I find that?

2. Is running a car on compressed air as a fuel a good idea? What do you guys know?

1. I don't think anyone has a table like that up anywhere. You would have to fin a common measurement and if you're trying to compare applied energy you would have to adjust for efficiency.

1 kWh = 3412 BTU
1 gal (US) gasoline = 114,500 BTU (equivalent to 33.55 kWh)

2. It's very very inefficient as an energy source and the amount of energy per unit of volume is not competitive.

of course you can make your car into a steam engine... light a fire under a boiler and use the expanding steam drive your car. Advantages include: great low end torque, able to be done renewably. Disadvantages... you can never never let your boiler run out of water!!!!

1. depends on the price of gasoline, hydrogen, LPG and compressed natural gas. You can find lists of how many kWh are in a gallon of each, maybe not all in one place but should be easy enough.
2. It can be done, butI am with captainslug, probably not the best option. You would need a large tank of super high pressure air if you wanted any range...

1.

Actually I find the current price table of electricity price per KWhr shocking

Electric Power Monthly - Average Retail Price of Electricity to Ultimate Customers by End-Use Sector, by State

I too don't think there ever was a decent nationwide price per gallon list of any fuel as usually I can find that my local gas (where I go anyway) is priced dramatically different than a station just down the road and dramatically different than what the gas bloggers say it should be.

As stated above, Obviously you would need to convert the price per gallon into an equivalent unit, you would then also have to understand that gasoline is generally used at between 14%-30% effiency for locamotion as compared to 70-90% for electric and you would need to understand the inefficiency that gets added onto the process of making hydrogen. Thats the trouble with comparing Apples to Pine cones there are a lot of variables.

2.

Compressed Air has promise and is being used in europe hooked into cave networks utilitizing temperature differences, not what you were expecting right?

In terms of a vehicle, compressed air also holds promise but the type of technology needed to improve its effiency and energy density just isn't in the hands of the masses. Generally the solutions using the heat and cold generated are the most effient, we will have to wait for the frenchies or India to figure it out for us in the meantime.

Wow. In Indonesia, electricity is 5 cents per kwh. I wonder why it's so expensive in United states? 18 cents per kwh?

Okay I got it.

To make things compare apple to apple we need to take into account efficiency.

How many litters of gasoline does it take to run 1 km? 9L (said my wife)?

I would guess the same reason they sell prescription drugs for 10 to 50 times more than they can be had for in foreign countries.

Because they can and no one does anything about it. :(

I really wish our political system could be changed in this country along with the obsolete parties.

Hi,

Compressed air is a storage medium; not a fuel.

A method that has been proposed for using compressed air, is in conjunction with a large solar array in the southwest USA (or a large number of wind turbines) is after it is transmitted to population centers, if it is not needed just then -- use the excess electricity to run large air compressors. Use these to pump air pressure into existing large underground caverns (where there used to be natural gas, for instance) -- and then when electricity is needed beyond what is coming from the renewable arrays; then reverse the process. The stored air pressure can be used to run turbines to generate electricity on demand.

Let's vote. Which do you prefer, arsenic or cyanide?

Subsidy
 

It is possible that electricity are subsidized in Indonesia. However, as far as I know, the cost of production is even much lower.

Well, the pharmaceutical companies need to recoup their research cost.

Drugs are like software. The difference is while software are protected by copyright, drugs are protected by patent. But once the patent is gone, there is absolutely no use to buy branded product.

Cyanide! It's proven to be very fast and blends well with sugary drink mixes.:thumbup:
Seriously, our parties are involed with corperations to the point we the people are seldom relevent. What ever reasons they use for price gouging, our representatives go along with it. Of course, if that weren't the case, we would all take the outcome for granted and wouldn't appreciate it.

Actually to add, there is a temperature gradient in the southwest US, it is possible to get real power using hot air to compress and cool air to expand in the hot environment without any external power

Shocking- LOL :p

Nationally, it is higher than I thought! 8 cents/kwh here, although there is a rate increase next month. But if I add the other fees and taxes it's about 16 cents/kwh! :eek: My level of usage is small; the fees and taxes are half the bill!

The COOP is always going on about conserve, conserve, conserve. BUT they give price breaks to large consumers! :confused: If they were serious about motivating customers to use less, like I do, shouldn't that be the other way around?

We're sure on the same page!

Natural Gas and Electricity here are the same way - you get double charged for the first so many BTUs or KWh, then once you get above what the average household uses, the rate is normal.
I'm sure there's good reason, like the hassle to connect many small users vs. one big user, but it seems unfair - especially the $15 fee the gas company gives me each month just for the privilege of being their customer. I'd ditch gas if I could - my wife likes her gas stove. Maybe a propane tank...

KWH may be cheaper in certain countries but remember the cost of living is not directly comparable and neither is the amount earned or the tax rates etc.

Here in Australia I pay AUS $ 0.1577 / Kw hr for electricity. There is a supply charge of $34.50/90 days (more than the actual amount I pay for the electricity I use !) and the Government adds an even 10% to the total.

Gas costs AU$ 0.010658 / Mj with a supply charge of $21.15 and of course tax of 10% an all of that.
Not sure what the "supply" charge means for a piece of pipe in the ground? I don't think there is a lot of maintenance required !

Water costs AU $ 1.0276 / 1 000 litres. and I use around 50/litres per day.

Pete.,

"Not sure what the "supply" charge means for a piece of pipe in the ground? I don't think there is a lot of maintenance required !"

Yeah no kidding, that's what makes me mad. :mad: I mean, the meter and those pipes were laid in there 42 years ago and nobody has had to lay a finger on em since. How can that possibly justify that monthly charge?

That water rate SUCKS but I believe it is coming to the US as well since we use more water than what physically falls in most areas. Anyway I would strongly recommend you get a composting toilet, they do not stink, they are environmentally friendly, you do need to use different toilet paper (usually) but at that rate I would be taking a lot of sponge baths, smelling like a frenchman, using disposable paper plates and using a composting toilet so I wouldn't have to pay them.

I think everybody pays something similar to a supply charge, though the folks in control might call it something else, like a tax or an access fee or a metering charge.

My folks pay roughly $75 a month to have gas, water and electric hookups and another $20 just to have a phone, this is before they even use ANYTHING!

Add to that if you TRY to conserve power many utilities will charge you a higher rate because you aren't using enough power :(

There are many hidden costs that go away if you produce your own power.

I wish solar would drop a little more so we could drop this utility BS.

Ah well

Its' called cost of capital. However there are some conflict of interest here given that the pipe is a very diminishing marginal costs thingy.

For everything the market do bad, we can be assured that government can always make it worst.

In Indonesia we keep paying to go through highway even though the highway has been around for so many years. Yea government should have made better deals.