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JSH 05-10-2022 11:29 AM

Production Freightliner eCascadia Launched
 
After 4 years of trials with key customers - Freightliner launched the production version of their eCascadia yesterday at the ACT Expo.

The long range version goes 230 miles with a 438 kWh battery (usable capacity) and charges from 0-80% in 90 minutes on a 270 kWh charger.

https://freightliner.com/trucks/ecascadia/


https://www.ccjdigital.com/alternati...tric-ecascadia

https://img.ccjdigital.com/files/bas...compress&w=700

freebeard 05-10-2022 12:39 PM

Whoever cropped that photo disrespected the Old Town sign.

A 438 kWh battery would make quite a fire.

redpoint5 05-10-2022 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 667794)
After 4 years of trials with key customers - Freightliner launched the production version of their eCascadia yesterday at the ACT Expo.

The long range version goes 230 miles with a 438 kWh battery (usable capacity) and charges from 0-80% in 90 minutes on a 270 kWh charger.

How are the power and load ratings in comparison to their ICE counterparts?

Looks very interesting for local freight.

Does it recharge on CCS? If not, why? CCS already has some 350 kW capable chargers out in the wild. I would have thought they would at least be capable of maxing that charging rate.

Any idea what their production capacity is?

EDIT- Looks like a proprietary charging system, so you must purchase the Freightliner charging solution. What a missed opportunity. Then again, it was only recently CCS was capable of such fast charging, so this was being developed long before.

JSH 05-10-2022 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 667800)
How are the power and load ratings in comparison to their ICE counterparts?

Looks very interesting for local freight.

Does it recharge on CCS? If not, why? CCS already has some 350 kW capable chargers out in the wild. I would have thought they would at least be capable of maxing that charging rate.

Any idea what their production capacity is?

EDIT- Looks like a proprietary charging system, so you must purchase the Freightliner charging solution. What a missed opportunity. Then again, it was only recently CCS was capable of such fast charging, so this was being developed long before.

Power is 320 HP to 470 HP with way more torque than a diesel
GCW is 65,000 for a single rear axle / 82,000 for a dual rear axle
Tractor weight is 16,350 - 21,800 depending on configuration.

Target markets for BEV trucks are Drayage, local delivery (things like beverage and food delivery trucks) and regional point to point.


Charges on standard CCS. Frieghtliner will sell you a charger but you don't have to use theirs. Freightliner got around the old limits of CCS when this was in development 4 years ago by designing it to use two CCS plugs.

Drifter 05-10-2022 02:17 PM

230 miles is the long range version? And 6 hours to charge it (90 minutes is for the 194 kWh version)? Oof!! I presume all of those miles are only available in the summer on a new battery too.

That would still work fine for some of the hyper local port haulers & fuel carriers, but buying an class8 EV with that little range is a lot of risk for a small fleet - it seriously limits your pool of customers. I had a buddy who hauled containers from Oakland to Fremont for a certain Solar/EV company. Then that company moved much of their production to Reno. 230 miles of range would have worked fine for the original contract, but wouldn't be sufficient for the modified contract a few years later...

redpoint5 05-10-2022 02:30 PM

At 10 cents per kWh, the EV truck costs about 20 cents per mile in "fuel". An 8 MPG diesel rig might be 50 cents per mile.

Running on electrons is at least half the fuel cost. Should be much less maintenance too, increasing the uptime of the rig.

I'm curious what the maximum regen capability is, and what percent of braking is accomplished with regen vs friction brakes in typical operation? I would guess that a truck could avoid friction braking altogether when descending a steep grade of say, 6% fully loaded.

Drifter 05-10-2022 03:11 PM

Oh I can't wait for EV trucks. There is so much wasted fuel idling (especially at night for long haulers), running PTOs, warming up, slow-speed maneuvering in parking lots/industrial parks, etc.

On flat ground, our dry vans needed about 100 horsepower to go 60mph which would be about 0.8 miles per kW. I wonder why Freightliner is only getting ~0.5 miles?

redpoint5 05-10-2022 03:24 PM

Oh, and are these trucks compatible with refers?

JSH 05-10-2022 04:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 667807)
230 miles is the long range version? And 6 hours to charge it (90 minutes is for the 194 kWh version)? Oof!! I presume all of those miles are only available in the summer on a new battery too.

That would still work fine for some of the hyper local port haulers & fuel carriers, but buying an class8 EV with that little range is a lot of risk for a small fleet - it seriously limits your pool of customers. I had a buddy who hauled containers from Oakland to Fremont for a certain Solar/EV company. Then that company moved much of their production to Reno. 230 miles of range would have worked fine for the original contract, but wouldn't be sufficient for the modified contract a few years later...

Yes, 230 miles is the long range version. Freightliner has been running a test fleet with about 50 customers for 4 years. I’m sure they have the usage case nailed down. (Same as Ford saying the average fleet owned Transit only drives 74 miles a day)

It is 90 minutes to recharge any of the battery sizes 0 – 80% (Spec below from Freightliner’s website). However I doubt too many of these trucks will be fast charged instead of charged overnight.

These aren’t for small fleets. These are for the UPS, Fed EX, Ryder, Penske, Sysco, Coca-Cola of the world that operate huge fleets and track every route and truck and know their usage. There is a Sysco video on Youtube with them testing a preproduction eCascadia with the small battery and single axle. They say it can handle more than 50% of their routes on one charge. (Sysco has a 14,000 vehicle fleet)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 667809)
I'm curious what the maximum regen capability is, and what percent of braking is accomplished with regen vs friction brakes in typical operation? I would guess that a truck could avoid friction braking altogether when descending a steep grade of say, 6% fully loaded.

From the article linked above about 20 – 30%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 667814)
On flat ground, our dry vans needed about 100 horsepower to go 60mph which would be about 0.8 miles per kW. I wonder why Freightliner is only getting ~0.5 miles?

Stop, Start, Stop, Start, Stop, Start. These aren’t intended as highway cruisers. The fine print says the range is simply determined by the averaged achieved by the test fleet over those years of testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 667815)
Oh, and are these trucks compatible with refers?

Yes. See the Sysco comment above. Reefers have fuel tanks on the trailer.

Something from the spec sheet I find surprising is the warranty. 5 years / 300K miles for the large battery but only 150K miles for the small battery.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1652213325

ksa8907 05-10-2022 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 667809)

I'm curious what the maximum regen capability is, and what percent of braking is accomplished with regen vs friction brakes in typical operation? I would guess that a truck could avoid friction braking altogether when descending a steep grade of say, 6% fully loaded.

This is something I haven't really heard discussed. When I've towed with our hybrid truck it always seems to drive way more smooth after having towed. My guess is the extra power captured from the trailer weight really packs the hybrid battery to full.
It could be completely due to the battery being 10 years old with 170k miles on it, and being nimh chemistry.... but it is a noticeable difference in driving characteristics after towing.

I would think that the battery being able to accept at least 270kw and the motor being able to generate 400+kw, mountain decent will be much more controllable that with a diesel truck.

redpoint5 05-10-2022 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksa8907 (Post 667853)
I would think that the battery being able to accept at least 270kw and the motor being able to generate 400+kw, mountain decent will be much more controllable that with a diesel truck.

Would be very interested to know the max regen rate. I'd further be curious about the energy needed to be absorbed in a fully loaded rig on a 6% grade at say, 60 MPH.

270 kW is 362 horsepower of regen. That's gotta be way more than enough to use regen alone on any reasonable grade and load.

Should be biking 05-10-2022 11:02 PM

Is that power rating continuous or like the peak 30 second or so power most EV sellers like to quote?
Pulling 80k lbs uphill takes a lot of energy.

Piotrsko 05-11-2022 10:11 AM

That is probably an aerohead question, has too many math squiggles for me, but off the top of my head I would say the level of regen is inadequate for 80k# on the grapevine. Should be continuous, rather pointless for a three minute rating.

rmay635703 05-11-2022 10:43 AM

There are many locations around here were the small single axle truck is dock to stock barely touching surface streets 16 hours a day moving things around facilities and yards up and down the same half mile stretch of road.

These make a lot of sense in the case your buildings are stretched over a mile

JSH 05-11-2022 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Should be biking (Post 667865)
Is that power rating continuous or like the peak 30 second or so power most EV sellers like to quote?
Pulling 80k lbs uphill takes a lot of energy.

I read it as on the average trip the truck recovers 20 - 30% of the battery capacity using regen - not that the peak regen is 20-30% of battery capacity or motor rating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 667884)
There are many locations around here were the small single axle truck is dock to stock barely touching surface streets 16 hours a day moving things around facilities and yards up and down the same half mile stretch of road.

These make a lot of sense in the case your buildings are stretched over a mile

Yes, there are a lot of those trucks. I'd say we have 20 - 30 trucks in our industrial park that never leave the park. They just switch trailers all day every day.

Rcnesneg 05-18-2022 11:18 AM

This is exciting! How fast can they crank them out? We have a lot of diseasel trucks running around here on short routes, idling all the time, etc. Like Old Dominion... Short routes with lots of stops. Perfect for that, and the CCS rates aren't bad either!

Is this pretty much just California only right now?

JSH 05-19-2022 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcnesneg (Post 668358)
This is exciting! How fast can they crank them out? We have a lot of diseasel trucks running around here on short routes, idling all the time, etc. Like Old Dominion... Short routes with lots of stops. Perfect for that, and the CCS rates aren't bad either!

Is this pretty much just California only right now?

At the launch event Freightliner said they had 700 orders. Unless something changes with incentives the industry expects an initial spike in orders then a dip followed by steady growth. That initial spike and dip is due to the expectation that large fleets will initially buy a group of trucks to test and then spend years testing them to determine the real cost / mile and percentage uptime.

I'm sure California makes up most of the orders but they are other states with electric truck programs and California, Oregon and Washington state are doing a combined program to build HD truck chargers every 50 miles along I-5

JSH 06-03-2022 06:54 PM

Sysco (the food delivery company) announced an order for 800 eCascadias to be delivered from 2022 to 2026

https://www.thetruckersreport.com/ne...scadia-trucks/

Drifter 06-04-2022 01:51 AM

Almost 1% of their fleet

JSH 06-04-2022 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifter (Post 669132)
Almost 1% of their fleet

1% of their global fleet - 800 trucks is 9% of their US fleet.

Freightliner is Daimler Truck's North American brand. In the rest of the world they sell other electric trucks like the eActros.

The trucking industry is conservative - they will test for a complete life cycle before making large purchases.


List of US truck fleets by size:
https://www.ttnews.com/top100/private/2021

Autobahnschleicher 06-04-2022 04:36 PM

Using BEV trucks for long haul is kinda stupid.

We have had a more efficient, faster, proven and reliable alternative for decades now.
Electric trains
No battery, no range limit, no charging time, higher topspeed, can go anywhere nonstop.
For the short haul to and from the trainstation, electric trucks/vans make sense though.

rmay635703 06-04-2022 07:37 PM

It’s certainly nothing like the 16mpg streamliner Semi illustrated on this site many years ago

JSH 06-05-2022 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autobahnschleicher (Post 669155)
Using BEV trucks for long haul is kinda stupid.

We have had a more efficient, faster, proven and reliable alternative for decades now.
Electric trains
No battery, no range limit, no charging time, higher topspeed, can go anywhere nonstop.
For the short haul to and from the trainstation, electric trucks/vans make sense though.

These aren't for long haul, they are for local and regional food delivery routes.

Nobody is making BEV trucks for long haul routes.

Drifter 06-05-2022 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autobahnschleicher (Post 669155)
We have had a more efficient, faster, proven and reliable alternative for decades now.
Electric trains
No battery, no range limit, no charging time, higher topspeed, can go anywhere nonstop.

In theory. In practice (in the US), railroad freight is very slow/inefficient because our system is not one network (like interstate highways) but a patchwork of regulated monopolies:

https://i0.wp.com/transportgeography...24%2C631&ssl=1


Each rail line has the right to use other companies' rails, but it requires coordination. And railroads don't have the right to deliver on each other's lines. They either have to hand it off or negotiate the right to deliver on someone else's turf.

On a major freight lane things go relatively smoothly so it doesn't take too long. An express train from LA to NYC takes 3-4 days vs 2 days for a team truck. But if you're on a more obscure route things likely haven't been negotiated/scheduled in advance so a 2 day trip might take a week or 2...

redpoint5 06-06-2022 12:01 PM

Hoping these end up being a huge success and we see the diesel trucks replaced by EVs.


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