Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-07-2010, 05:57 PM   #131 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Since I'm already using a wheel as a mold, I just apply release wax to the wheel but not the center cap, et voila. Epoxied in place as it cures. A bolt, OTOH, would pass right through the H logo which you can still make out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula413 View Post
Nice work, how much FE do you think it will pick up? And can you get an air nozzle onto the valve stem ok? I don't think the 12V compressor I use would fit.

I wonder how this would look on my car...
I expect the FE gain to be smaller than for most cars. The old wheels had pretty good aero.

My air hose fits on fine, but I can't get my fingers in there to unscrew the valve cap. I'll probably enlarge the hole with tinsnips.

How does it look? I don't know. I'm running it up the flagpole. Actually, I've only made one of these so far, because I only have one spare center cap.








I've been trying to formulate a theory of automotive aesthetics. One thing that people find ugly is poor build quality, such as my occasionally mismatched colors, uneven panel gaps, and lumpy bodywork. I'll improve if I choose to.

Another thing people find ugly is things they don't expect. They expect wheels to be shiny, surfaces to have smooth texture and high gloss, wheels to be unskirted... and most unfortunately, they are averse to unfamiliar body styles, including the streamlined body.

The 1970 Citroen SM was regarded as "ugly". What a shame. It was aerodynamically superior to its competition.

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobertSmalls For This Useful Post:
brucepick (03-08-2016), bwilson4web (05-07-2010)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-02-2010, 11:44 PM   #132 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Update. The power supply for my grid charger has arrived. Now I just need some electrical odds and ends to piece it together, and I should be in the business of grid-charging both of my batteries with a single cord.


New aeromods, including the boat-tail, are on hold. I need to bring my existing aeromods up to a higher standard of design and craftsmanship first.

My goal is to be able to park the car at a diner on cruise night with a smirk on my face. Although many historic car enthusiasts won't "get it", at least they'll think I'm competent at restoration and customization. This means I have to get rid of the lumpy fiberglass, chipping paint, mismatched colors, exposed fasteners, and inconsistent textures. That's an awful lot of work, but it's necessary.

If/when I can achieve that level of quality, I'll see if I can build a boat-tail that looks like it was put there on purpose by someone who knew what he was doing.



Is it true that people expect cars to have symmetrical grilles?

The Insight's radiator is mounted off center. The stock car has a 36" wide grille with 12" of dead space to the right of the 24" wide radiator. I need to expose about 18" of radiator to airflow in the summer, and less than 6" in winter. I currently have the right half of the grille blocked, but if I were to make it symmetrical, I'd only be able to block six inches on either side. If I also stipulate that the license plate be somewhere near the centerline, then any lower grille block at all becomes impossible.

Maybe I need to tear off the body-colored lower grille block and replace it with a recessed, flat black coroplast grille insert.



And yes, I see the massive gap between hood and bumper cover. I will apply more mallet, and probably chip more paint in the process.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0894.jpg
Views:	3270
Size:	89.8 KB
ID:	6114  

Last edited by RobertSmalls; 06-02-2010 at 11:51 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2010, 09:31 PM   #133 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
I've assembled a simple grid charger for the stock battery pack from Mike Dabrowski's plans. It's just three adjustable 42V-54V power supplies in series with a 350mA constant current power supply. When assembled and adjusted, it's a 170VDC constant current power supply. The datasheets say it should be around 85% efficienct, and my kill-a-watt confirms this.

I'm looking forward to nightly grid charging and more liberal use of electric assist. In addition to keeping the gas engine's RPMs down by relying on the electric for acceleration, I'll also be displacing some of my gasoline use with electricity. My utility promises they're buying me 100% renewable electricity, so it's arguably guilt-free propulsion.



That's a picture of the charger screwed to a board, with the IMA case open. The charger doesn't get terribly hot, so I'm going to permanently install it inside the IMA box, behind the battery fan. There's lots of room.

The grid charger has some drawbacks. Foremost, it's slow. 350mA into a 6500mAh battery at 70% DOD requires 13 hours. Add another 6 hours or so if you also run the DC/DC converter to recharge a discharged 12V battery, as I plan to do some of the time.

Secondly, the charger has no charge termination scheme. That's the reason it's slow. It just keeps charging, even once the battery gets so full that it dissipates all the incoming current as heat. 350mA is slow enough that the amount of heat generated (65W) is easy to dissipate, but I'd prefer not to waste the electricity.

The plans call for just leaving the battery fan running whenever you're charging. Instead, I'm keeping Honda's BCM powered up (along with the high voltage contactor and DC/DC converter). The battery fan will turn on only if it gets too hot. No more cold batteries in the winter. This also keeps the BCM abreast of the true state of charge of the battery, avoiding the recalibration you'd otherwise get.

I'll do an IMA-heavy run to the Home Depot tomorrow and we'll see if I can beat my usual 40-50mpg on that 3 mi round trip.


Now, can anyone recommend a weatherproof three-wire interconnect I can use for where my power cord exits the car?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ChargerScrewedToABoard.jpg
Views:	3457
Size:	111.1 KB
ID:	6128  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 02:15 AM   #134 (permalink)
sjr
Metro HotRodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bellingham Washington
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
New aeromods, including the boat-tail, are on hold. I need to bring my existing aeromods up to a higher standard of design and craftsmanship first.
This means I have to get rid of the lumpy fiberglass, chipping paint, mismatched colors, exposed fasteners, and inconsistent textures. That's an awful lot of work, but it's necessary.

If/when I can achieve that level of quality, I'll see if I can build a boat-tail that looks like it was put there on purpose by someone who knew what he was doing.


I can Help with this, I have build Fiberglass molds professionally for the last 18 years and also know body work, I could walk you threw what to do and what materials you need, first thing is you will need a good shop temperature to aid in the curing, I would think over 50 Degrees would do,
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 02:22 AM   #135 (permalink)
sjr
Metro HotRodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bellingham Washington
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
fiberglass basics are simple, alot can go wrong, if your good at autobody and painting it will be a snap Scott
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 01:44 PM   #136 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
Now, can anyone recommend a weatherproof three-wire interconnect I can use for where my power cord exits the car?
Just did a McMasterCarr Search. Sorry I cannot recommend as I have never used them.
McMaster-Carr
Just goto special feature and click watertight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 05:25 PM   #137 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Yikes, $15-40 for those watertight connectors? I'm not going to grid charge outdoors, so I was thinking more like this:



The charger is installed in its final location. Its AC power cord exits the IMA box through one of the many vent holes back there. With the IMA box closed back up, you wouldn't even know the charger was there except for the power cord chilling out in the spare tire well.





I jumpered the always-hot MCM pin B10 (white/red) to MCM pin A11 (pink/blue), which powers up everything on the IMA fuse. N.B. this does not include the inverter fan or DC/DC converter. The BCM and current sensor are powered and the battery fan should be live, and it keeps the SoC gauge accurate. That way I don't get a forced regen (wasted fuel) and a recalibration first thing in the morning.



I also jumpered the DC/DC converter power wire to the above-mentioned always-hot, and that didn't go well. It powered up the DC/DC converter... and everything on fuses #1-7, including the ECU, O2 sensor heaters, etc. The more I study the circuit diagrams, the more I think you can't run the DC/DC converter without running the ECU and the "electrical load detector". I may resort to a cheap, automatic trickle charger permanently installed in the car and powered by the grid charger's cord. Or I may give up on grid charging the 12V battery.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ChargerInstalled.jpg
Views:	3360
Size:	110.1 KB
ID:	6148   Click image for larger version

Name:	PHEV Badge.jpg
Views:	3287
Size:	67.4 KB
ID:	6149   Click image for larger version

Name:	MCM Always On.jpg
Views:	3469
Size:	104.8 KB
ID:	6150  

Last edited by RobertSmalls; 06-06-2010 at 08:20 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 06:28 PM   #138 (permalink)
Renaissance Man
 
Formula413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the Northeast dreaming of the Southwest
Posts: 595

Aegean C - '17 Honda Civic LX
90 day: 42.11 mpg (US)
Thanks: 19
Thanked 30 Times in 23 Posts
What about a simple float charger for the 12v battery? I use one for my motorcycle battery in the winter, it's really a tender as opposed to a charger. And it was cheap.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 07:33 PM   #139 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Can you please tell me where you are finding the circuit diagrams? I am trying to figure out how to build a replacement module with different chemistry and I need to learn about the interface between the BCM and the rest of the car.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2010, 10:32 PM   #140 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,258

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 283 Times in 196 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula413 View Post
What about a simple float charger for the 12v battery? I use one for my motorcycle battery in the winter, it's really a tender as opposed to a charger. And it was cheap.
Yep, I have a 1A 12V trickle charger that automatically tapers off the charge to zero as you approach 100% SOC, so as not to overcharge the battery. I've measured it at only 60-something percent efficiency, versus the 84% efficiency of this charger that I assembled. *shrug*. It'll do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalRandall View Post
Can you please tell me where you are finding the circuit diagrams? I am trying to figure out how to build a replacement module with different chemistry and I need to learn about the interface between the BCM and the rest of the car.
Download 2000-2006 Insight Service Manual PDF and Others - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

If you check out electrical troubleshooting / IS0006202173A.pdf, you'll find there are four BCM wires that communicate with the rest of the car - two to the MCM, two to the gauge cluster. Unfortunately, they're "serial communication".


You'll want to read up on Peter Perkins' work. Search for posts by Retepsnikrep on InsightCentral. He has a 40Ah lithium pack in place of the stock battery. If I understand his work correctly, the Honda BCM sits there with its battery temperature sensors someplace cool and its ten battery voltage sensors looking at a ten-way voltage divider resistor array hooked across the real battery pack. Basically, instead of building his own BCM, he fooled the existing one, then added a custom BMS to watch the temperature and voltage of his battery. A MIMA is required to control assist and regen.



Speaking of MIMA, I really need one to make good use of the charger. I went shopping today, 7mi round trip, making liberal use of assist. I was only able to run my battery down by five bars out of twenty. I got 76.4mpg instead of my usual sub-60 on that route, which I have to say is pretty disappointing. I would have preferred 20 bars used and >100mpg indicated.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reviving a 2000 Honda Insight "beater" Red Hybrids 215 08-10-2017 07:35 PM
FS: All USED Honda Insight Parts For Sale Fabio For Sale 17 06-16-2013 02:49 PM
Project: Rebuilding an '01 Honda Insight as a nonhybrid Fabio Hybrids 158 01-12-2013 11:59 AM
Ecomodded 5MT 2000 Honda Insight for sale in Buffalo. RobertSmalls For Sale 9 10-23-2011 09:38 AM
Honda Insight Concept to Debut at Paris Int. Auto Show SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 32 04-17-2009 10:45 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com