Questions about the Nissan Leaf
I'm seeing conflicting information online about the Leaf.
Some Leafs ( Leaves ? ) have a quick charger built in, correct ? There is a "Charge Point" station around two miles away from me. Can Leafs use a public quick charge like this ? I am reading that even with a quick charger, your charge times could take up to 10 hours. That's crazy ! Other EVs can charge in less than 30 minutes, and be on their way. I would imagine Leaf drivers are absolutely hated at charge stations, because they take so long to charge. And charge time take even longer as the car ages. I owned my ICE car for 21 years and spent maybe $700 or 800 total on all tires, batteries, and such. ( I drive very little ) With an EV, you have to replace the battery every few years, regardless. So as I had asked in another post, this would be like buying a car that has an ICE and transmission that has to be replaced every few years, correct ? So the cost of ownership in 20 years for the battery alone would be several thousand dollars ? ( Like $20,000 + ? ) My car sat a lot. I don't drive much. My car sits in one spot for two weeks or more at a time. Do EVs lose charge just sittong there ? Used Leafs have around 50 miles of range. So this means even if I just drive short trips to the grocery store and back, I would have to charge the car every other trip I take. And each time I charge, it would cost more than the mere pennies I use in gas to drive to the nearby store and back. I would have to rent a car for longer trips. I take about two per year. With all of these drawbacks, I still find myself interested in the idea of owning an EV. It's an impractical desire of mine since I was a teen, and at my age, I see this as perhaps my last car purchase. My budget is $6,000 or less, and the only EV i see at that cost is a Leaf. My main reason for wanting a Leaf is the geek factor. But bottom line - it's a want, and not a need. ( And an expensive one ) |
The term "quick" is relative. Yes, it can use either 120v or 240v(L2) chargers but it will still take hours to charge. Tesla's can charge faster but they also use much higher voltages and far more current because their batteries are actively cooled.
With hybrids and EV's, the worst thing you can do is leave them sitting off charger for weeks or months on end. The problem with the nissan leaf is there really is no battery cooling. Another user, oil pan, has one and will likely have more/better information on the leaf. I'd be a fool not to mention it, I'm selling my volt. http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/227cd8e2 As always, price is negotiable, I now have a 5 seat family so the 4 seater car has to go. |
My impression on Leaf ownership -- they're extremely reliable but honestly not so fun to drive. They're heavy and handle like a boat.
Yeah, you can charge it at ChargePoint. We do, sometimes. It can be pretty pricey unless you have a hook up for free charging. Do you have a backup, in case that charger goes down? (I guess you could find one in Austin without much trouble.) The accessory battery has the same limitations as an ICE car's battery if it sits for long periods. Best to trickle charge it. Overall, from what I remember of your driving situation, I wouldn't do it. Rent a Tesla on Turo for a couple days, you'll save a lot of money that way. I suppose you could test drive ours, if you want (msg me). |
Quote:
|
Hey so, to the best of my understanding there are 3 trim levels.
Base: S Mid-level: SV Highest-trim: SL Basically the SL has all options standard. The SV has options as specified by the original buyer, or by Nissan too. The S often has nothing. When I was looking into buying my Leaf, the vast majority of the SVs had the quick-charging port. I have used that (level 3 charging) 2 times since purchasing my Leaf. Most of the time when charging I am using the trickle charger that came with the car, because I don't have a nearby 240V receptacle; and since I live in a rental I don't have the option to wire one in myself. Anyhow, Level-2 charging uses the same port as Level-1. Level-2 is what any of your shopping-center chargers are (generally), and that gives you a full charge in ~3ish hours. So if you go shopping for a half hour and come back, your car will have another 20ish miles of range, give or take. The problem you run into with SV's, at least in my location, is finding one that has the hybrid heat pump instead of just the dumb standard resistive heater. I lucked out and got one with all the options I wanted. Range is OK, I get around 90 miles of usable range by driving like a hypermiler. The biggest concern I'd have in your particular case is the battery management and cooling system, which in the Leaf is built on "thoughts and prayers." As such, there isn't one. Texas might be too hot and you would lose capacity pretty fast, especially if you're using it on the freeway a lot. I acknowledge that the Leaf isn't for everyone, but I absolutely love mine. For 95% of the driving I do, it's perfect. When we have to take a longer route, we use my wife's Fit. Just my $0.02 |
Thanks guys !
So from what I am reading, even a 'perfect' battery will last 8 to 10 years - or 100,000 miles. ( Whichever comes first ) Here in Texas heat, that's 8 years or less. So to own the car for 20 years with nothing more than driving a few miles a week to the grocery store and back, it would still cost me around 12 thousand dollars, to as much as $18,000 if I buy one used with a tired battery that already is dying. Correct ? |
Well, my Texas battery is 6 years old and we still get ~75 miles of range. Compared to ~85 when new. I don't think it's quite that bad.
But, I have a 2015 with the upgraded "lizard" battery. |
The old batteries are pretty bad. My parents have a used 2012 in Oregon and the battery is something like 2/3 capacity.
I wouldn't buy a Leaf. There's a stop sale on the Chevy Bolt from '17--'19 for battery fire risk (which is low at 5 total so far out of like 100k). We're coming on 6 months of pent up sales demand with no inventory, so around April when the stop sale is lifted all the lease returns and trade-ins will hit the market at once, flooding it. I'd say May is the sweet spot for Bolt purchases, and much less concern about battery degradation (active thermal management) and much higher range (250 miles), and way better performance. |
A Bolt might cost $9995 used but it’s a much more EV than a Leaf and it has a useable range, the battery doesn’t seem to degrade to the levels of a leaf either.
Some old 2011 leafs only have a useable range of 35 miles, not worth it especially after having the $hit taxed out of you on the registration. Given I only pay $200 a year on gas things like this are total BS https://www.govtech.com/transportati...hicle-Fee.html At this point unless you own an expensive Tesla with all its non-battery issues a PHEV like A Prime or Volt is a better option but long range commutes in winter are still somewhat problematic depending on which one you buy. |
If you must have an EV, why not a Volt? Then you have a gasser as a back up and still 30-50 miles of EV range. Plus they're probably the cheapest EV/PHEV out there without significant range issues like the Leaf has.
Of course there's always the first Prius Plugin, but that has pathetic range and is basically just a regular Prius. Or heck, buy a Metro or Insight shell and build your own mini EV project, have the batteries be quick swappable so you can take them out and use them for other things when you aren't driving. |
Quote:
A co-worker of mine showed me her's, and I came away unimpressed, but if the price is right, I may jump for one. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Austin heat wouldn't kill the battery.
I do not recommend to someone who lives in a hot place. It gets hot here but it cools off pretty good at night. |
Quote:
I put almost 70,000 miles on my Yaris, and I guarantee you I didn't spend $600 in a 2-year period on gas tax in that, even when I was putting close to 20k miles on it a year. The registration fees are criminal, especially since what is it, 95% of road damage I think? Is caused by SEMI trucks, NOT passenger cars. And I don't pay gas tax on my wife's car because it SITS IN THE DRIVEWAY FOR WEEKS AT A TIME as it is. In my case, however, I didn't really care about the registration cost because 1) My dad needed a commuter car (their only other option was a 1990's Ford F-250 lawn ornament that needs ~$2,000 in repairs) 2) I moved and no longer needed to drive the distances I had before 3) I was ready for a new car after ~8 years So I sold my car to my dad for $2,000. Oregon gave me a $2,500 credit for buying an EV for the first time (haven't seen THAT check yet...). So the $16,000 '17 Leaf SV with 29k miles and all options became an $11,500 '17 Leaf SV with 29k miles and all options. And when you add never having to change and dispose of engine oil or go to a gas station to the mix, it becomes an incredibly attractive option. I charge my car at home overnight, and it's ready to go the next day. I've taken trips from Keizer OR to Gresham OR, plugged into my parents' outside wall socket while I did yard work for a few hours, and then have driven home. No fuss, and what, like $5 total in electricity to travel ~130 miles. You really can't beat that. |
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Volt is great all around if you rarely drive outside it’s range but it’s certainly not a cavernous hatchback Hmm in your range is Smart Ed Volt Fiat 500e Leaf IMiev If your expectations are very low a $2500 2012 leaf would be ok for a very short commute , I might even own one as a secondary town car if I could not pay registration fees or insurance There is also “this thing” but you need to do your own repairs as well if your out of warranty . I have seen private party sales in the $6 area more fun, more reliable battery but less reliable other components Ah well no perfect mouse trap |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
The Leaf has 3 levels off charging. All Leaf's have Level 1 and 2. Level 3 was an option. Level 1 110V with a J1772 plug. 1.3 kW charge rate. The car comes with a 110V cord to charge from a standard outlet Level 2 220V with a J1772 plug. (3.3 KW or 6.6 kW charge rate depending on year and trim) You would need to install a 220V Level 2 charger at home or use a public charger. Level 3 Also called DC Fast Charging. Nissan uses a CHAdeMO plug that charge at a rate of 50 - 100 kW. This is optional. Where you can charge will depend on the plug on the charger. There are plenty of place like PlugShare that will give you a map of different charging stations, the company that owns the charger, the type of plug they have, and the price to charge. This is a good buyer's guide for the 1st generation Nissan Leaf with the major differences: https://insideevs.com/news/325877/us...-buying-guide/ |
Quote:
(I've been an OReGO member since the trial started and it works fine) |
Quote:
Regarding Leaf batteries; they are junk. Their environmental controls are all but non-existent, which is a necessity for EVs considering most other manufacturers implement it. My parents 9 year old Leaf is down to about 2/3 capacity. In the winter that can mean as little as 35 miles of range. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Yep mine has a 2014 batt and it shows. Was at 12 bars from when I got it till about a year ago, still at 11 bars.
A 2 or 3 year older non lizard batt would be in far worse shape. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
My research shows that 2014 was a transition year for the lizard battery. Do you know how to determine which battery chemistry a 2014 has? |
Quote:
I don't have a method of knowing what battery is in a '14, but assumed I would figure one out if I were ever considering one. The most comprehensive model comparison resource I know of is here; https://insideevs.com/news/325877/us...-buying-guide/ |
Quote:
For me it depends on the use of the car. The Leaf is cheaper but shorter range and much less fun. The batteries are suspect but cheap. The Bolt is better in almost all ways but more expensive. If the battery ever did fail it is $16K. I didn't buy by Spark EV at the end of the lease because the battery was basically unsupported. The Bolt has the volume that it will likely be support but still expensive. I might be in the market for a car again. My wife has a new job and it is in person and 20 miles away. We will have to decided if it makes sense to buy another car or just have one of us drive the campervan at less than 20 mpg. |
I'm under the mistaken impression that GM batteries are modular and based on common design blocks when using the same chemistry so are repairable. I do know in a Volt, everything exchanges physically.
|
Quote:
From a CleanTechnica article:
Picture of a Spark EV battery module: https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/batt...00466966_h.jpg |
Quote:
Nissan still only claims less than 1% of their battery packs are replaced under warranty due to degradation, which I find impossible to believe. Because at one time it was pretty easy to find a lease turn in leaf with a brand-new battery. |
Quote:
You also live in an area with some of the worse conditions for battery degradation so you would see more than most people. |
I believe it. Main thing now is to avoid the 40kwh batteries unless you are in a cold climate.
|
Quote:
As a side note, I saw you said you were formerly anti-Nissan-Leaf. Gotta say, I'm anti-Nissan in general but this was the only EV I could afford. The control panel for the climate control is the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever dealt with. Just give me 3 knobs like a normal car! |
Quote:
"Let's talk about Nissan Leaf battery packs for a moment. The first two years on the market, there was quite an uproar over the battery packs losing capacity over time, especially those located in hot climates like Arizona, Texas, Florida, Nevada, and Southern California. Any battery will lose capacity over time, whether it is in a car, phone, or laptop. This is to be expected. But the Leaf's battery was degrading much faster than anticipated in these hot areas. So after 2 years the car's rated range may drop from 85 miles to 65 miles." |
Quote:
2011-2012 - Worst battery looses capacity rapidly 2013/2014 - unofficially Improved fewer failures 2015 - Lizard battery wears the best but only 24kwhr 30 kwhr - lettuce battery, looses capacity faster than 2015 and sometimes completely drops a cell 40kwhr battery- too new to really tell appears to be better than 30kwhr but that’s not saying much 60kwhr battery- too new to tell https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ric-cars-study |
Quote:
|
I was asking specifically why the 40 kWh battery, but the above posts answered it. Thank you :)
|
The 40kwh battery cooks it's self. Probably comes down to packing nearly 2x the kwh in the same size and weight cells.
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com