EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   Fossil Fuel Free (https://ecomodder.com/forum/fossil-fuel-free.html)
-   -   Questions about the Nissan Leaf (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/questions-about-nissan-leaf-39182.html)

Cd 03-06-2021 03:38 AM

Questions about the Nissan Leaf
 
I'm seeing conflicting information online about the Leaf.
Some Leafs ( Leaves ? ) have a quick charger built in, correct ?
There is a "Charge Point" station around two miles away from me.
Can Leafs use a public quick charge like this ?

I am reading that even with a quick charger, your charge times could take up to 10 hours. That's crazy !
Other EVs can charge in less than 30 minutes, and be on their way.

I would imagine Leaf drivers are absolutely hated at charge stations, because they take so long to charge.


And charge time take even longer as the car ages.


I owned my ICE car for 21 years and spent maybe $700 or 800 total on all tires, batteries, and such.
( I drive very little )

With an EV, you have to replace the battery every few years, regardless.
So as I had asked in another post, this would be like buying a car that has an ICE and transmission that has to be replaced every few years, correct ?

So the cost of ownership in 20 years for the battery alone would be several thousand dollars ?
( Like $20,000 + ? )

My car sat a lot. I don't drive much. My car sits in one spot for two weeks or more at a time.
Do EVs lose charge just sittong there ?

Used Leafs have around 50 miles of range.
So this means even if I just drive short trips to the grocery store and back, I would have to charge the car every other trip I take.
And each time I charge, it would cost more than the mere pennies I use in gas to drive to the nearby store and back.


I would have to rent a car for longer trips.
I take about two per year.

With all of these drawbacks, I still find myself interested in the idea of owning an EV.

It's an impractical desire of mine since I was a teen, and at my age, I see this as perhaps my last car purchase.

My budget is $6,000 or less, and the only EV i see at that cost is a Leaf.

My main reason for wanting a Leaf is the geek factor.
But bottom line - it's a want, and not a need.
( And an expensive one )

ksa8907 03-06-2021 06:50 AM

The term "quick" is relative. Yes, it can use either 120v or 240v(L2) chargers but it will still take hours to charge. Tesla's can charge faster but they also use much higher voltages and far more current because their batteries are actively cooled.

With hybrids and EV's, the worst thing you can do is leave them sitting off charger for weeks or months on end.

The problem with the nissan leaf is there really is no battery cooling. Another user, oil pan, has one and will likely have more/better information on the leaf.

I'd be a fool not to mention it, I'm selling my volt. http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/227cd8e2
As always, price is negotiable, I now have a 5 seat family so the 4 seater car has to go.

ME_Andy 03-06-2021 10:01 AM

My impression on Leaf ownership -- they're extremely reliable but honestly not so fun to drive. They're heavy and handle like a boat.

Yeah, you can charge it at ChargePoint. We do, sometimes. It can be pretty pricey unless you have a hook up for free charging.

Do you have a backup, in case that charger goes down? (I guess you could find one in Austin without much trouble.)

The accessory battery has the same limitations as an ICE car's battery if it sits for long periods. Best to trickle charge it.

Overall, from what I remember of your driving situation, I wouldn't do it. Rent a Tesla on Turo for a couple days, you'll save a lot of money that way.

I suppose you could test drive ours, if you want (msg me).

Cd 03-06-2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ME_Andy (Post 643663)
My impression on Leaf ownership -- they're extremely reliable but honestly not so fun to drive. They're heavy and handle like a boat.

Yeah, you can charge it at ChargePoint. We do, sometimes. It can be pretty pricey unless you have a hook up for free charging.

Do you have a backup, in case that charger goes down? (I guess you could find one in Austin without much trouble.)

The accessory battery has the same limitations as an ICE car's battery if it sits for long periods. Best to trickle charge it.

Overall, from what I remember of your driving situation, I wouldn't do it. Rent a Tesla on Turo for a couple days, you'll save a lot of money that way.

I suppose you could test drive ours, if you want (msg me).

DM sent

Flakbadger 03-06-2021 07:05 PM

Hey so, to the best of my understanding there are 3 trim levels.

Base: S
Mid-level: SV
Highest-trim: SL

Basically the SL has all options standard. The SV has options as specified by the original buyer, or by Nissan too. The S often has nothing.

When I was looking into buying my Leaf, the vast majority of the SVs had the quick-charging port.

I have used that (level 3 charging) 2 times since purchasing my Leaf.

Most of the time when charging I am using the trickle charger that came with the car, because I don't have a nearby 240V receptacle; and since I live in a rental I don't have the option to wire one in myself.

Anyhow, Level-2 charging uses the same port as Level-1. Level-2 is what any of your shopping-center chargers are (generally), and that gives you a full charge in ~3ish hours. So if you go shopping for a half hour and come back, your car will have another 20ish miles of range, give or take.

The problem you run into with SV's, at least in my location, is finding one that has the hybrid heat pump instead of just the dumb standard resistive heater. I lucked out and got one with all the options I wanted.

Range is OK, I get around 90 miles of usable range by driving like a hypermiler. The biggest concern I'd have in your particular case is the battery management and cooling system, which in the Leaf is built on "thoughts and prayers." As such, there isn't one. Texas might be too hot and you would lose capacity pretty fast, especially if you're using it on the freeway a lot.

I acknowledge that the Leaf isn't for everyone, but I absolutely love mine. For 95% of the driving I do, it's perfect. When we have to take a longer route, we use my wife's Fit.

Just my $0.02

Cd 03-06-2021 08:16 PM

Thanks guys !
So from what I am reading, even a 'perfect' battery will last 8 to 10 years - or 100,000 miles.
( Whichever comes first )

Here in Texas heat, that's 8 years or less.

So to own the car for 20 years with nothing more than driving a few miles a week to the grocery store and back, it would still cost me around 12 thousand dollars, to as much as $18,000 if I buy one used with a tired battery that already is dying.
Correct ?

ME_Andy 03-06-2021 08:41 PM

Well, my Texas battery is 6 years old and we still get ~75 miles of range. Compared to ~85 when new. I don't think it's quite that bad.

But, I have a 2015 with the upgraded "lizard" battery.

redpoint5 03-06-2021 09:36 PM

The old batteries are pretty bad. My parents have a used 2012 in Oregon and the battery is something like 2/3 capacity.

I wouldn't buy a Leaf. There's a stop sale on the Chevy Bolt from '17--'19 for battery fire risk (which is low at 5 total so far out of like 100k). We're coming on 6 months of pent up sales demand with no inventory, so around April when the stop sale is lifted all the lease returns and trade-ins will hit the market at once, flooding it. I'd say May is the sweet spot for Bolt purchases, and much less concern about battery degradation (active thermal management) and much higher range (250 miles), and way better performance.

rmay635703 03-07-2021 04:15 PM

A Bolt might cost $9995 used but it’s a much more EV than a Leaf and it has a useable range, the battery doesn’t seem to degrade to the levels of a leaf either.
Some old 2011 leafs only have a useable range of 35 miles, not worth it especially after having the $hit taxed out of you on the registration.

Given I only pay $200 a year on gas things like this are total BS

https://www.govtech.com/transportati...hicle-Fee.html

At this point unless you own an expensive Tesla with all its non-battery issues a PHEV like A Prime or Volt is a better option but long range commutes in winter are still somewhat problematic depending on which one you buy.

mpg_numbers_guy 03-07-2021 11:29 PM

If you must have an EV, why not a Volt? Then you have a gasser as a back up and still 30-50 miles of EV range. Plus they're probably the cheapest EV/PHEV out there without significant range issues like the Leaf has.

Of course there's always the first Prius Plugin, but that has pathetic range and is basically just a regular Prius.

Or heck, buy a Metro or Insight shell and build your own mini EV project, have the batteries be quick swappable so you can take them out and use them for other things when you aren't driving.

Cd 03-08-2021 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy (Post 643736)
If you must have an EV, why not a Volt? Then you have a gasser as a back up and still 30-50 miles of EV range. Plus they're probably the cheapest EV/PHEV out there without significant range issues like the Leaf has.

Of course there's always the first Prius Plugin, but that has pathetic range and is basically just a regular Prius.

Or heck, buy a Metro or Insight shell and build your own mini EV project, have the batteries be quick swappable so you can take them out and use them for other things when you aren't driving.

I'll have a better look at the Volt.
A co-worker of mine showed me her's, and I came away unimpressed, but if the price is right, I may jump for one.

ksa8907 03-08-2021 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 643754)
I'll have a better look at the Volt.
A co-worker of mine showed me her's, and I came away unimpressed, but if the price is right, I may jump for one.

The best thing about the volt is it is zero compromise in my opinion. You drive it the same whether you're going 20 miles or 200 miles, and its comfortable.

mpg_numbers_guy 03-08-2021 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 643754)
I'll have a better look at the Volt.
A co-worker of mine showed me her's, and I came away unimpressed, but if the price is right, I may jump for one.

It has typical Chevrolet reliability, but neither Honda nor Toyota have a comparable EV or PHEV in that price range outside of the Prius Plugin.

oil pan 4 03-08-2021 11:18 AM

Austin heat wouldn't kill the battery.
I do not recommend to someone who lives in a hot place.
It gets hot here but it cools off pretty good at night.

Flakbadger 03-09-2021 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 643720)
not worth it especially after having the $hit taxed out of you on the registration.

Given I only pay $200 a year on gas things like this are total BS

I feel you on this one. SIX--HUNDRED--FU****G--DOLLARS for registration, because yOu DoN't PaY gAs TaX wItH aN eLeCtRiC cAr.

I put almost 70,000 miles on my Yaris, and I guarantee you I didn't spend $600 in a 2-year period on gas tax in that, even when I was putting close to 20k miles on it a year.

The registration fees are criminal, especially since what is it, 95% of road damage I think? Is caused by SEMI trucks, NOT passenger cars. And I don't pay gas tax on my wife's car because it SITS IN THE DRIVEWAY FOR WEEKS AT A TIME as it is.

In my case, however, I didn't really care about the registration cost because

1) My dad needed a commuter car (their only other option was a 1990's Ford F-250 lawn ornament that needs ~$2,000 in repairs)
2) I moved and no longer needed to drive the distances I had before
3) I was ready for a new car after ~8 years

So I sold my car to my dad for $2,000. Oregon gave me a $2,500 credit for buying an EV for the first time (haven't seen THAT check yet...). So the $16,000 '17 Leaf SV with 29k miles and all options became an $11,500 '17 Leaf SV with 29k miles and all options.

And when you add never having to change and dispose of engine oil or go to a gas station to the mix, it becomes an incredibly attractive option.

I charge my car at home overnight, and it's ready to go the next day.

I've taken trips from Keizer OR to Gresham OR, plugged into my parents' outside wall socket while I did yard work for a few hours, and then have driven home. No fuss, and what, like $5 total in electricity to travel ~130 miles. You really can't beat that.

rmay635703 03-09-2021 05:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 643754)
I'll have a better look at the Volt.
A co-worker of mine showed me her's, and I came away unimpressed, but if the price is right, I may jump for one.

Volts are “usually “ quite reliable and there is now a modded/tuner/diy repair group to support fixing broken ones

Volt is great all around if you rarely drive outside it’s range but it’s certainly not a cavernous hatchback


Hmm in your range is
Smart Ed
Volt
Fiat 500e
Leaf
IMiev

If your expectations are very low a $2500 2012 leaf would be ok for a very short commute , I might even own one as a secondary town car if I could not pay registration fees or insurance


There is also “this thing” but you need to do your own repairs as well if your out of warranty . I have seen private party sales in the $6 area more fun, more reliable battery but less reliable other components

Ah well no perfect mouse trap

Flakbadger 03-09-2021 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 643860)
There is also “this thing”

That BMW is the butt-ugliest modern car I have ever seen, and I will never understand what they were thinking/smoking/drinking/injecting when they designed it.

redpoint5 03-09-2021 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flakbadger (Post 643861)
That BMW is the butt-ugliest modern car I have ever seen, and I will never understand what they were thinking/smoking/drinking/injecting when they designed it.

I find the iMiEV winner of the most hideous vehicle in the world, but it does seem BMW was trying hard for that title.

JSH 03-14-2021 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 643679)
Thanks guys !
So from what I am reading, even a 'perfect' battery will last 8 to 10 years - or 100,000 miles.
( Whichever comes first )

Here in Texas heat, that's 8 years or less.

So to own the car for 20 years with nothing more than driving a few miles a week to the grocery store and back, it would still cost me around 12 thousand dollars, to as much as $18,000 if I buy one used with a tired battery that already is dying.
Correct ?

The warranty is 8 years so if the battery failed (dropped below 75% capacity) before the car is 8 years old Nissan would have to replace it. EV batteries rarely just fail completely. They lose capacity slowly over time. The better you treat the battery the longer it lasts. If you are really just driving a few miles to the grocery store an EV battery should last you a VERY long time and is a perfect application for a 1st generation EV like the Leaf.

The Leaf has 3 levels off charging. All Leaf's have Level 1 and 2. Level 3 was an option.

Level 1
110V with a J1772 plug. 1.3 kW charge rate. The car comes with a 110V cord to charge from a standard outlet

Level 2
220V with a J1772 plug. (3.3 KW or 6.6 kW charge rate depending on year and trim) You would need to install a 220V Level 2 charger at home or use a public charger.

Level 3
Also called DC Fast Charging. Nissan uses a CHAdeMO plug that charge at a rate of 50 - 100 kW. This is optional.

Where you can charge will depend on the plug on the charger. There are plenty of place like PlugShare that will give you a map of different charging stations, the company that owns the charger, the type of plug they have, and the price to charge.

This is a good buyer's guide for the 1st generation Nissan Leaf with the major differences: https://insideevs.com/news/325877/us...-buying-guide/

JSH 03-15-2021 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flakbadger (Post 643820)
I feel you on this one. SIX--HUNDRED--FU****G--DOLLARS for registration, because yOu DoN't PaY gAs TaX wItH aN eLeCtRiC cAr.

In Oregon the registration for an electric car is $306 a year OR $86 if you enroll in Oregon's fee per mile program called OReGO. With OReGO you are billed 1.8 cents per mile traveled on public roads in Oregon. If you drive less than 12,222 miles per year it is cheaper to sign up for OReGO.

(I've been an OReGO member since the trial started and it works fine)

redpoint5 03-15-2021 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 644154)
In Oregon the registration for an electric car is $306 a year OR $86 if you enroll in Oregon's fee per mile program called OReGO. With OReGO you are billed 1.8 cents per mile traveled on public roads in Oregon. If you drive less than 12,222 miles per year it is cheaper to sign up for OReGO.

(I've been an OReGO member since the trial started and it works fine)

Mmm, Oreos. That reminds me that my parents should probably sign up for that since they certainly travel less than 12k. They drive daily, but probably average 20 miles.

Regarding Leaf batteries; they are junk. Their environmental controls are all but non-existent, which is a necessity for EVs considering most other manufacturers implement it. My parents 9 year old Leaf is down to about 2/3 capacity. In the winter that can mean as little as 35 miles of range.

JSH 03-15-2021 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 644155)
Mmm, Oreos. That reminds me that my parents should probably sign up for that since they certainly travel less than 12k. They drive daily, but probably average 20 miles.

Regarding Leaf batteries; they are junk. Their environmental controls are all but non-existent, which is a necessity for EVs considering most other manufacturers implement it. My parents 9 year old Leaf is down to about 2/3 capacity. In the winter that can mean as little as 35 miles of range.

Your parents is a 2012 then? That was before they made the change to improved "lizard" batteries.

redpoint5 03-15-2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 644163)
Your parents is a 2012 then? That was before they made the change to improved "lizard" batteries.

Yes, I didn't buy it like I had planned. Were it my decision they would be in a '13+ model (lizard in '14). I've read that the newer batteries also degrade quickly.

oil pan 4 03-15-2021 01:17 PM

Yep mine has a 2014 batt and it shows. Was at 12 bars from when I got it till about a year ago, still at 11 bars.
A 2 or 3 year older non lizard batt would be in far worse shape.

redpoint5 03-15-2021 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 644168)
Yep mine has a 2014 batt and it shows. Was at 12 bars from when I got it till about a year ago, still at 11 bars.
A 2 or 3 year older non lizard batt would be in far worse shape.

Well that's quite an improvement over the earlier packs.

JSH 03-15-2021 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 644167)
Yes, I didn't buy it like I had planned. Were it my decision they would be in a '13+ model (lizard in '14). I've read that the newer batteries also degrade quickly.

If I was shopping for a Leaf it would be 2015 (all had lizard battery) and a SV trim for the 6.6 kW charger and heat pump.

My research shows that 2014 was a transition year for the lizard battery. Do you know how to determine which battery chemistry a 2014 has?

redpoint5 03-15-2021 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 644175)
If I was shopping for a Leaf it would be 2015 (all had lizard battery) and a SV trim for the 6.6 kW charger and heat pump.

My research shows that 2014 was a transition year for the lizard battery. Do you know how to determine which battery chemistry a 2014 has?

At this point I've just about decided against a Leaf and am most focused on a Bolt.

I don't have a method of knowing what battery is in a '14, but assumed I would figure one out if I were ever considering one.

The most comprehensive model comparison resource I know of is here;

https://insideevs.com/news/325877/us...-buying-guide/

JSH 03-15-2021 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 644176)
At this point I've just about decided against a Leaf and am most focused on a Bolt.

I don't have a method of knowing what battery is in a '14, but assumed I would figure one out if I were ever considering one.

The most comprehensive model comparison resource I know of is here;

https://insideevs.com/news/325877/us...-buying-guide/


For me it depends on the use of the car. The Leaf is cheaper but shorter range and much less fun. The batteries are suspect but cheap.

The Bolt is better in almost all ways but more expensive. If the battery ever did fail it is $16K. I didn't buy by Spark EV at the end of the lease because the battery was basically unsupported. The Bolt has the volume that it will likely be support but still expensive.

I might be in the market for a car again. My wife has a new job and it is in person and 20 miles away. We will have to decided if it makes sense to buy another car or just have one of us drive the campervan at less than 20 mpg.

Piotrsko 03-16-2021 10:39 AM

I'm under the mistaken impression that GM batteries are modular and based on common design blocks when using the same chemistry so are repairable. I do know in a Volt, everything exchanges physically.

JSH 03-16-2021 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotrsko (Post 644200)
I'm under the mistaken impression that GM batteries are modular and based on common design blocks when using the same chemistry so are repairable. I do know in a Volt, everything exchanges physically.

The Spark EV changed batteries in 2015 and is a different LG cell than the one used in the Bolt. They are modular and bolt together so a battery could be repaired - if you could find replacement cells or used cells. Certainly possible but with only about 6000 Spark EVs made - split over two different battery packs designs, I doubt you will find much support. A dealer won't crack open a pack to replace cells so you would need a local expert.

From a CleanTechnica article:
  • The Chevrolet Spark EV battery is made with 192 (2p96s) LG Chem cells, each cell is rated at 27 Ah and 3.75 V.
  • the Chevrolet Bolt EV battery is made with 288 (3p96s) LG Chem cells, each cell is rated at 55 Ah and 3.75 V

Picture of a Spark EV battery module:
https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/batt...00466966_h.jpg

oil pan 4 03-16-2021 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 644169)
Well that's quite an improvement over the earlier packs.

When I was anti nissan leaf back before the first production model had even been built the first generation of leaf batteries exceeded my expectations for longevity.
Nissan still only claims less than 1% of their battery packs are replaced under warranty due to degradation, which I find impossible to believe. Because at one time it was pretty easy to find a lease turn in leaf with a brand-new battery.

JSH 03-16-2021 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 644205)
When I was anti nissan leaf back before the first production model had even been built the first generation of leaf batteries exceeded my expectations for longevity.
Nissan still only claims less than 1% of their battery packs are replaced under warranty due to degradation, which I find impossible to believe. Because at one time it was pretty easy to find a lease turn in leaf with a brand-new battery.

That could be true depending on how they crunch the data. It was the 2011 and 2012 batteries that were real bad but production was low (9700 and 10000 in the USA) Even if they were replacing 20 or 30% of those early batteries in the USA that would be a small percentage of the hundreds of thousands of Leafs made globally.

You also live in an area with some of the worse conditions for battery degradation so you would see more than most people.

oil pan 4 03-17-2021 09:15 AM

I believe it. Main thing now is to avoid the 40kwh batteries unless you are in a cold climate.

Flakbadger 03-17-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 644227)
I believe it. Main thing now is to avoid the 40kwh batteries unless you are in a cold climate.

Why is that?

As a side note, I saw you said you were formerly anti-Nissan-Leaf. Gotta say, I'm anti-Nissan in general but this was the only EV I could afford. The control panel for the climate control is the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever dealt with. Just give me 3 knobs like a normal car!

JSH 03-17-2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flakbadger (Post 644238)
Why is that?

As a side note, I saw you said you were formerly anti-Nissan-Leaf. Gotta say, I'm anti-Nissan in general but this was the only EV I could afford. The control panel for the climate control is the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever dealt with. Just give me 3 knobs like a normal car!

From the buyers guide linked above:

"Let's talk about Nissan Leaf battery packs for a moment. The first two years on the market, there was quite an uproar over the battery packs losing capacity over time, especially those located in hot climates like Arizona, Texas, Florida, Nevada, and Southern California. Any battery will lose capacity over time, whether it is in a car, phone, or laptop. This is to be expected. But the Leaf's battery was degrading much faster than anticipated in these hot areas. So after 2 years the car's rated range may drop from 85 miles to 65 miles."

rmay635703 03-17-2021 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 644249)
From the buyers guide linked above:

"Let's talk about Nissan Leaf battery packs for a moment. The first two years on the market, there was quite an uproar over the battery packs losing capacity over time, especially those located in hot climates like Arizona, Texas, Florida, Nevada, and Southern California. Any battery will lose capacity over time, whether it is in a car, phone, or laptop. This is to be expected. But the Leaf's battery was degrading much faster than anticipated in these hot areas. So after 2 years the car's rated range may drop from 85 miles to 65 miles."

The 1st Gen leaf has had several iterations of battery

2011-2012 - Worst battery looses capacity rapidly
2013/2014 - unofficially Improved fewer failures
2015 - Lizard battery wears the best but only 24kwhr
30 kwhr - lettuce battery, looses capacity faster than 2015 and sometimes completely drops a cell
40kwhr battery- too new to really tell appears to be better than 30kwhr but that’s not saying much
60kwhr battery- too new to tell


https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ric-cars-study

JSH 03-17-2021 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 644253)
The 1st Gen leaf has had several iterations of battery

2011-2012 - Worst battery looses capacity rapidly
2013/2014 - unofficially Improved fewer failures
2015 - Lizard battery wears the best but only 24kwhr
30 kwhr - lettuce battery, looses capacity faster than 2015 and sometimes completely drops a cell
40kwhr battery- too new to really tell appears to be better than 30kwhr but that’s not saying much
60kwhr battery- too new to tell


https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ric-cars-study

The data on the 30 kWhr battery is interesting - I wonder if any further follow-up was done. If the battery continued to degrade at 9.95 per year Nissan would have to replace them under warranty after 3 years. I wonder if they initially drop a lot and then the decline tapers off.

Flakbadger 03-17-2021 06:38 PM

I was asking specifically why the 40 kWh battery, but the above posts answered it. Thank you :)

oil pan 4 03-18-2021 09:03 AM

The 40kwh battery cooks it's self. Probably comes down to packing nearly 2x the kwh in the same size and weight cells.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com