Ram-Aero-Camper, just a study
 

Been a while since I posted any sketches, but I got inspired when driving by a car dealership and took a moment to take some photos and dream a bit.

Puzzling thing is there is no discount on the 30-33,000 prices, in fact the boxless versions are one or two grand more. They even had what looked like a custom service truck with the tool boxes on the sides like a phone service truck, it was cheapest of all.

If I were to do something like this Ram-Aero-Camper it would have to be hybrid Diesel and 4WD, otherwise where is the sense of adventure?

I'm posting an un-altered base sheet for anyone wishing to test out their own ideas, feel free to post them in the same thread for idea sharing and critique.

I like the idea of extending upward for camping. Would you use hydraulics? Would you enter from between the seats in the cab? Could solve the "door" problem.
Are you using the long chassis?

I cannot read your .bmp attachment.

I would imagine the rear door to be magnetic strips or zipper, just a plastic or cloth flap like a tent - simple.

The sides also roll down tent material, this is all similar to one of those pop-up tents in operation.

The telescoping posts could be manual, but then four people would be needed. Hand crank or electric gear driven I would favor over hydraulics but I'm not an engineer. I just suspect that it need more than a gas spring or two, it would have to be idiot proof so that putting it up in the dark would be a safe operation.

I was originally favoring a hinged at the high point of the roof an accordion or baffle-like hinged top. This would allow the five feet at the hinged end at the back of the cabin and the 7-8 feet at the tail where a flap door or curtain would be. However when I though about it I wasn't sure that it would be any simpler, lighter and cheaper, but I was sure that it offered less internal space.

Going back to a straight vertical scheme, solid panels in lieu of tent fabric could rise out of the substructure, but that is less of a home made scheme and would be cause for additional engineering, money and time. I'm not trying to make this bear proof, but solid sides would make winter travels better.

EDIT: Sketched up the hinged version, should be able to use heavy duty gas springs like on trap floor doors.

Straight up may be simpler? Either hard sided (Hi-Lo trailers) or soft sided (VW camper van, others) have been done.

Sorry.

I don't think there is a 4x4 version, the regular ones are FWD. There is at least one aftermarket 4x4 version but it looks a bit weak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...72&v=HeQxk1Y_X
I say if you want a 4wd then start with something 4wd. I never get the super expensive Quigley Ford and Chevy vans. Just start with a Suburban 2500 or a Excursion and put a pop up top tent on that.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/83...0b236bbafa.jpg

Instead of pushing it straight up, have it on 4-bar linkages so it goes up and back. Telescope longitudinally.

Then a rear step that hinges down under the overhang.

Sprinter, Transit, Ram..............none of those have 4WD versions?

I had not looked into it, not even sure if they offer Diesel in the US.

The Diesel-Hybrid electric I was pondering is to the best of my knowledge not offered by anyone (yet). However I can see having a rechargeable battery pack for energy storage onboard as a camping asset, electric heat at night as in a heated floor anyone?

There are some Cab-Over-Engine (COE) 4WD offerings on the market, but I'm told sitting on top of an engine over long distances can be a problem, plus the weight of those vehicles is going to kill mpg no matter how aerodynamic the skin is. It's just overkill in other words.

I'm going to have to see a sketch of that, I'm just not getting it.

EDIT: Related info............

The 5 best vans for your DIY camper conversion
https://www.curbed.com/2018/1/31/169...camper-vanlife

I did see on the road a couple of days ago a Winnebago based on one of these newer European van formats, it had all the typical condensers and shat on the roof that perhaps could have been tucked under the vehicle between the frame rails...................or is that a bad idea?

Also found this:

2015 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 4x4
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...t-drive-review

For now I'm going to assume all the major manufactures offer a front of cab only version for their commercial customers, and that one or more offer 4wd, one or more offer Diesel, one or more doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The starter shell does not have to be a Ram, that just happened to be the dealership I was passing while I had some time to kill. This is a study in form, a concept, and a chance to discuss some of the mechanicals of getting an aerodynamic cap to raise.

On the cut-sheet collage you will notice that the heavier rated commercial truck has much larger side view mirrors...........I'm going to assume this is to accommodate an ungodly box perhaps wider than the cab some customers will be adding. Those huge mirrors have to go, as I understand it the larger RV's have video cameras all over them making the mirrors redundant, so smaller may not mean less safe.

EDIT-2:

Winnebago
https://winnebagoind.com/products/cl...avato/overview
https://winnebagoind.com/binaries/co...-ladder-19.jpg
https://winnebagoind.com/binaries/co...r-doors-19.jpg
https://winnebagoind.com/binaries/co.../tv-f2b-19.jpg
https://winnebagoind.com/binaries/co...tv-bath-19.jpg

I'd like to point out that the most economical camper may not be the most aerodynamic one. It depends on your ratio of driving to sleeping in it, and just how much it can displace.

The lowest cost per mile "camper" would be sleeping in the back of a used Nissan Leaf at the bottom of its depreciation, or Honda Insight. However, in the case of the Leaf, you're only going to be camping ~40 miles from home, max, and let's not get into trying to sleep in an Insight.

Taken to the other extreme, a vehicle may have poor aerodynamics, but a full kitchen, room to sleep two, a shower, and heck maybe even laundry. If you spend more time staying than driving the offset of needing to ever get a motel or airbnb for their facilities can pay for itself in some circumstances. Much like with a home, the place with the lowest rent may not be the least expensive place to live.

Yes, these are all very good points.

What I have sketched up in the past is toilet, shower and kitchen area, note all of these items are 30"or 36" in height. A shower head can be supplied water via flexible hose, lighting built into ceiling and so forth.

One of the things I liked about these Sprinter-like cabs is the access out the back, they Gator taped some coroplast to the back as a temporary patch.

NOTE:
Some of the things in life that puzzle me is the so-called American Dream.

Part of that dream as I understand it is retiring and traveling the country (USA only) in an RV.

Last I read the number one stated intended use of lottery winnings is to buy a better house and buy an RV to travel the country with, not sure if there is a particular order to this but my point is it's part of the American Dream.

I don't see the attraction of staying in an RV park or other camping ground as they are typically filled with loud screaming kids in the day time, loud drunk people in the night time and biting insects day and night.

However as an American this is somehow in my DNA to do so. :cool:

The popup tent camper people have a 4 post lid lift system that operates off a single crank which so could be electric. We were going to make hard folding sides for bear country and cold weather camping before we bought the casita. I don't do stairs or ladders at 2 am potty runs anymore, falling down with full bladder is highly annoying.

This will have to do:*

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...-1223-copy.jpg

Differing curves in the forward and aft sections might need to be reconciled. No headroom problems if you don't want them.
_______

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...2-p1010018.jpg

I bought into the dream but I couldn't afford to even take it on the road.

*Back to doing graphics by hanging a transparency over the monitor, just like the 19080s, before I got a Thunderscanner.

One could just start with a taller front cabin and then taper down, but the end result would still be a larger hole in the air compared to a collapsible version.

I did not see any tall caps on just the front end cabs, but one could always create their own. I mean if you have the skill to make a huge top, why not a mini top for the cab?

Perhaps they could be one in the same.

EDIT:
Scheme-3
Added a non-moving shell, simple as can be. Bed at short tail end, forces the toilet/shower location to middle or front for headroom. No back door on this one.

I like it, what is it?

Corvair based?

All that work and no Thanks? :(

Why not start with a top chop?

It was a 1964 Clark Cortez. I held it 10 years and never got ahead of the maintenance.

Start with the extended van, and build a profile cap to mount on the chopped cargo box. Hinge it so you can flip the cap up. You already have 76 inches of height at the hinge.

Hello, in Europe there are several models Fiat ducato camping, max cemping, 4x4 etc. eg:
Fiat Ducato 4x4: https://www.carscoops.com/2015/08/fi...n-looks-ready/
Fiat ducato camping: Reprogrammation moteur Camping car Fiat Ducato 2,3l jtdm 130 | Digiservices Troyes
Fiat ducato camping max: https://www.kampery-pruszcz.pl/katal...cato-baron-26g

And burning fuel burns almost as much as a small truck.

Delayed thank you, your comments led to the creation of Scheme-3 FYI.

To clarify, the roof on your overlay scheme is intended to be a two-piece clam-shell that gets lifted up, right?

That works for me as I'm short and my wife is even shorter, we may not need to raise the roof cap mechanically at all with those dimensions. Again this is a "just a for fun" study, a musing of daydreams. Nice work, thank you for putting that together for us all.


Nice links, thanks.

It's like designs that initially appear to address aerodynamic concerns end up failing or surrendering to some mundane practicality of function.

What this tells me is that aerodynamic design is still a fashion statement hired out to some stylist for marketing concerns and fails to get faithfully executed due to poor hand offs and delegation to others that do not embrace the concept and just want to retire early themselves.

While I agree with your statement, also remember it doesn't have to sacrifice much to be quite aerodynamic, nor does it have to "look" aerodynamic.

Best example of this is the Vixen motorhome. It had an actual Cd around .30. But, to most folks, it is still a box.

And boy do I wish Navistar published a Cd for the Monaco Vesta / Holiday Rambler Trip. I bet it was similar. And again, very few folks would ever really think it's much more than a big box.

Both these examples follow the simple method of rounding the front corners until the aero doesn't get any better, than taper the rear as much as you can. Didn't take much taper (which is loss of interior space) to get pretty good.

That said, if you don't consider low .30 as good (you didn't really say), getting it lower would indeed require more sacrifice. Being that my own motorhome is probably over .5 (data suggests it's almost .6), I'd take .3 any day.

(Images attached to save anyone who isn't familiar with these the search time.)

Thanks for posting the Cd, did you reference a source or just go off memory?

The roof taper is appearing on many vehicles today without much fanfare or acknowledgement to aerodynamics, this somewhat stealth introductory of aerodynamic design will eventually mark flat roofs as antiquated I suspect.

We are not seeing a lot of tapering in plan outside of hatchback and crossover greenhouses, and you really have to look for it. The smaller Volvo's and the Juke come to mind.

The Vixen and other larger RV's benefit from a longer length ratio to lower their Cd as much as anything else going on.

However, what we are studying here and I suspect will be seeing more of in the future is taller height to length ratios that will have to resort to tapered roof profiles to maintain any kind of fuel efficiency.

The hinged and telescoping roof schemes are an attempt to skirt around the height issue and get a more friendly length ratio.

There's sources quoting "<.30". But as I recall, Bill Collins did extensive testing in a wind tunnel (U of M in Ann Arbor?) and later sent a full size vehicle for testing (at the Bendix Proving Grounds) which came in a bit higher than the model (as happens). Somewhere online is a complete history written by Bob, which he presented at an owners convention or something like that. I'll google that a bit more...

Also recall that the Vixen had a pop up roof, later replaced with a fixed, higher, roof, but that version wasn't aero tested.

So long as the front contours result in laminar flow along the top and sides, the length isn't as important. I bet a Vixen could be shortened quite a bit before the aero got worse. I think long bodies benefit from the air getting reattached along the length of the body. If it never detaches, it could be shorter.

Good info, thanks.

I found this on length.

Drag per aft-body length/roof angle
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...gle-27922.html
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ead2/Scan1.jpg

About a week ago I think it was Aerohead posting or re-posting a length graphic dealing with buses in tandem. Another poster commented on antonymous vehicles taking advantage of this. In short, length matters.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/photo-feed.php?p=2081
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ead2/Gaps2.jpg

EDIT:
Found this by happen-chance, just had to re-post it, Syd Mead I believe.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/290834088420877147/
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/0c...d724803356.jpg

Article here:

2010
Syd Mead's Futuristic Playboy Land Yacht
https://jalopnik.com/5611114/syd-mea...boy-land-yacht
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...rt7a6k1jpg.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZy_...e=results_main

At a bit after 6:00 in this video, Bill talks about the aero development. There's about 40 minutes of video. I didn't watch the whole thing, I suspect it's the presentation I'm thinking of where he talks about the real vehicle test.

(I found an old thread where I mentioned the model tested at .26, and the Bendix testing got .29. (.295 is mentioned a few places - probably the number they got.) I think that information may be buried at the Vixen Owners Group website, which has content only available to members now.)

Only other motorhome I know of that spent time in a real wind tunnel is the Vesta/Trip. I've never seen any images or data from anything else.

Success from minimal effort. As drawn, there should be little arrows showing the forward section moving up and forward. A straight piano-hinge line won't accommodate any crown.

I was so appalled at my results I did another picture for another thread. This one has a fiberglass topper with a cut that curves the [flat] roof down to the driprail:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...-1224-copy.jpg

IIRC that Syd Mead design was 12ft wide.

These exist too, sort forgot about them.

Fantastic, from the video I found looks to be front hinge, rear scissor lever arm.

I also suspect those bicycles are being shoved and perhaps denting the roof as it raises as he has them too close.

2013
Checking out the Alto Safari Condo — Part 2: The amazing elevating roof and a look inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OssiS9Rpo98
This is a very 2D design, pressure differences between top and sides will create vortexes. Plus the arc has far too much slope, going to have air flow detachment for sure.

Still, many points for the coolness factor.

My teardrop design hinges toward the bottom:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...d-image-1.jpeg

Cool.

Took me a minute, but I got it.

I was working with similar forms for an rectangular in-duct hinged thrust braking system on a hovercraft. My mind kept going back to that, and I had to fight it.