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-   -   Ram Implosion Wing - Wind Tunnel Testing (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/ram-implosion-wing-wind-tunnel-testing-30812.html)

InnovativeWindTunnelGuy 01-05-2015 08:01 PM

Ram Implosion Wing - Wind Tunnel Testing
 
I want to build the RIW and test it in a subsonic windtunnel, however, I was browing the forums and everybody is calling it a scam. Has this been proven to be a scam? Should I not try testing this? I don't want to waste my resources on a scam. Why do you guys think this would fail, do you have any legitimate reasons?:confused::confused::confused:

Frank Lee 01-05-2015 08:26 PM

April 1 is not here yet.

InnovativeWindTunnelGuy 01-05-2015 08:30 PM

I'm serious about this, I will actually test it. I just want some feedback before I do.

Vman455 01-05-2015 08:30 PM

Read this first: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ngs-17139.html

InnovativeWindTunnelGuy 01-05-2015 10:41 PM

I read it, but I don't think it's supposed to create thrust by improving the aerodynamic fluidity. It's supposed to create a vortex in front of the car, thus reducing air pressure, I'm not an expert but I think we have to look at it from another angle.

2000mc 01-05-2015 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman455 (Post 462484)

Some how I'm having trouble understanding how it works, but it sounds like you wouldn't need a wind tunnel even. just get it up to speed, cut it loose, and see if it accelerates off into the horizon.
Or mount it in place of a kammback, where it would work, but be out performed by a sheet of cardboard.

InnovativeWindTunnelGuy 01-05-2015 11:45 PM

I'm actually going to be building a miniaturized version of this and mounting it on a car model, not an actual car. And then I'm going to test it in a mini wind tunnel. I don't have the resources to build a full scale wind tunnel, and RIW. I'm still a high school student.

Xist 01-06-2015 12:20 AM

Sometimes, logic is incomplete, and people are proven wrong. Sometimes, logic is valid, but testing provides credibility logic sometimes lacks.

Good luck!

dirtydave 01-06-2015 01:40 AM

troll?

markweatherill 01-06-2015 03:27 AM

Test this in a wind tunnel? I think you risk a runaway reaction that would create a wormhole that would take you off into cloud cuckoo land, where you would meet the inventor of this thing and you could write some testimonials together.

Frank Lee 01-06-2015 03:54 AM

And be sure to use plenty of smoke in your testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNrbOkvOErk

elhigh 01-06-2015 08:33 AM

Implosion, indeed. I think a few IQ points just vaporized.

I anticipate a change of address for this thread.

ChazInMT 01-06-2015 09:32 AM

Wind tunnel guy, I see you're still young and learning about new things. One of the things you need to teach yourself is how to be skeptical of things that claim results that seem outside the realm of possibility. One of the biggest clues you'll find that lead you to be skeptical is people using terms that seem scientific, but are really just patent Bull Crap.

The 2 things you wrote that make me say "What the heck?" are "Aerodynamic fluidity" and "Create vortex in front of the car".

It is good that you are curious about aerodynamics! We all start somewhere. I suggest you read a lot of the things Aerohead has written about and explore what we can do to a vehicle in order to reduce the drag forces created by moving a solid object at high speeds through the air.

There is a lot to learn just to start understanding the basics of aerodynamics. This Ram Implosion device thing you speak of is an attempt by some to confuse you with scientific statements which sound reasonable, but, in fact and by just plain logic are false or it's supposed effects are hugely over exaggerated.

Welcome to ecomodder. Don't let the snide comments here dissuade you from learning more about this very interesting field of study. I started out with my own huge misconceptions 4 years ago and have learned a ton since then.

If you really want to learn, forget this Ram Implosion thing for now. Be grateful for the fact that it has led you here, and start learning my young friend.

If you try to defend the Ram, you'll only be met with greater and greater hostility which will certainly frustrate you and send you off thinking that we're all a bunch of closed minded mean people here, which we are, :rolleyes: but given the right chance, we can teach you a whole bunch. :thumbup:

Much respect,
Charlie

freebeard 01-06-2015 02:17 PM

OP -- Vortexes don't work that way.

What I'm curious about is your [proposed] wind tunnel. What scale will it work at? Most are 1/4th to 1/10th; but the horsepower requirement goes up*. There was a guy in Japan who had videos on Youtube showing his work at 1/24th, but I think they're gone. He had digital scales under each wheel and one to get pushed at the back. He couldn't derive absolute values, but could do A-B comparisons.

*There are losses involved, so a full scale wind tunnel will consume 1000s of horsepower.

NeilBlanchard 01-06-2015 04:26 PM

I have not seen this before - and I am sorry I did.

Directory:Ram Implosion Wing - PESWiki

Quote:

Robert A. Patterson claims the Ram Implosion Wing, which fits atop a vehicle, often doubles the mileage of cars on which it is installed. He says this is due to a vortex principle that takes antagonistic air resistance, and turns it around to provide a propelling force instead. As of July, 2005, he said there have been some 40 people install one.
DOUBLES the mileage? And it makes the driver so attractive to the opposite sex, that anybody who sees them - swoons!

This thread needs to be moved to the Unicorn Corral.

aerohead 01-06-2015 05:52 PM

to look
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by InnovativeWindTunnelGuy (Post 462499)
I read it, but I don't think it's supposed to create thrust by improving the aerodynamic fluidity. It's supposed to create a vortex in front of the car, thus reducing air pressure, I'm not an expert but I think we have to look at it from another angle.

*The premise of aerodynamic streamlining is to reduce,or eliminate flow separation on the bluff body.
*The last thing in the world that you'd want,is a vortex in front of the car.This would destroy the flow all over the car.
*The 'high' pressure in front of cars is not a problem and never will be.
*The problem is the low base pressure behind the car,something the RIW cannot address.
*The RIW fails theoretically.It's performance premise is completely removed from the realities of physics.
*You'd do just as well to paint your car Baker-Miller Pink.

elhigh 01-07-2015 08:19 AM

^^
Made me look up Baker-Miller Pink. Weird stuff.

Not knowing the history of B-M Pink or Drunk Tank Pink, I tried a shade of pink a few years ago based on my own theories and suppositions: Sherwin-Williams "Little Princess," very nice in my opinion, fairly pale to make the most of poor lighting. I had a volunteer crew paint a stairwell leading to the overnight dorms in the homeless shelter where I work.

The reaction was so unpleasant I painted it back to grey. That was ten years ago. I've repainted in there at least once since then, and it's still grey. It may not be calming, but it doesn't induce rage either.

freebeard 01-08-2015 01:28 PM

The most manly pink is Mountbatten Pink (#997A8D)
Quote:

Mountbatten Pink, also called Plymouth Pink,[1] is a naval camouflage colour resembling greyish mauve. It was first used by Lord Mountbatten of the British Royal Navy during World War II.

Cd 01-08-2015 02:51 PM

I have read that Mikoyan-Gurevich cockpits were painted in a sea-foam green for the very same reason.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...21_cockpit.jpg

aerohead 01-08-2015 05:25 PM

green
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 462844)
I have read that Mikoyan-Gurevich cockpits were painted in a sea-foam green for the very same reason.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...21_cockpit.jpg

Makes sense as far as the human eye goes.
If you're in a daylight dogfight and glancing back and forth,from a high-altitude clear sky background to the instrument cluster,the retina would experience a more uniform lighting level maintaining good visual acuity.
If the green is also calming,that would be a plus,given the work environment of a fighter pilot.:p

Xist 01-09-2015 01:05 AM

Obviously you need a pink implosion wing!

I would drive the dog van from Dumb and Dumber if it doubled my mileage, but when I told my "mother-in-law" that I broke 50 MPG on my previous tank she just shrugged it off.

BamZipPow 01-09-2015 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 462954)
Obviously you need a pink implosion wing!

I would drive the dog van from Dumb and Dumber if it doubled my mileage, but when I told my "mother-in-law" that I broke 50 MPG on my previous tank she just shrugged it off.

Mutt Cutts! ;)

I find it easier to tell people how much money I saved as most people can relate to money in their pocket compared to MPG. Fer example, I've saved between $500 to $700 in fuel costs every year (6 years) since I started aero modding my T-100...which has paid fer the purchase of my truck and ALL mods to date. My long road trips calculated out to $0.09 per mile. ;)

elhigh 01-09-2015 09:41 AM

A quick note to InnovativeWindTunnelGuy:

If you're an actual wind tunnel guy, I think you'll appreciate that we prefer testing and documented results over rhetoric and anecdotes.

The "inventor" claims double and even triple the usual fuel mileage for vehicles using his device, and that it works better at higher speeds. If you spend much time here you'll see that that flies in the face of our usual philosophies. Doubling one's usual fuel mileage is the holy grail, tripling is the essence of the Unicorn Hunt. To date I can only imagine one guy could claim having done that: Diesel Dave in the White Whale, and his posted average speeds are the epitome of "modest."

The "inventor" uses a lot of gobblydegook to talk about his creation. Many of the terms make no sense whatsoever, even if you assume they are sort-of contextually appropriate. For further exploration of this concept see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDg...?v=rLDgQg6bq7o

But don't let us dissuade you. We're all about testing, here. Test, document, test again. Test with and test without. Eliminate as many other variables as humanly possible.

And then tell us what you've learned. It would be quite something to discover if there were an actual unicorn, and that it was useful.

aerohead 01-10-2015 02:25 PM

implosion
 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--O2vbpP28U...99111_orig.jpg

Frank Lee 01-10-2015 02:46 PM

Ha Ha- The ORIGINAL ricer speed holes!

Xist 01-12-2015 04:09 PM

Aerohead, I am embeding your image to view it! :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--O2vbpP28U...99111_orig.jpg

Xist 01-12-2015 04:11 PM

Wouldn't that create excess wind noise? If it makes wind noise, wouldn't it be creating drag?

niky 01-13-2015 04:31 AM

A brick wall with a hole in it will make more wind noise than a flat brick wall, but it will still have less drag. :D

some_other_dave 01-13-2015 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 463397)
A brick wall with a hole in it will make more wind noise than a flat brick wall, but it will still have less drag. :D

Not necessarily.... Depends on the hole!

-soD

aerohead 01-13-2015 05:39 PM

wouldn't that
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 463341)
Wouldn't that create excess wind noise? If it makes wind noise, wouldn't it be creating drag?

This car would have the aerodynamic dignity of a Grumman Avenger dive brake.
A true sky-ripper! Waring blender.'Bass-O-Matic.'"Holy Parachutes Batman!"
After the 1/4-mile run,they probably took their hole saw out to the desert and used it for target practice.
Smokey Yunick acid-dipped his cars for weight reduction,maintaining their aerodynamics (of which he cheated on).:D

Grant-53 01-17-2015 02:02 PM

As a parent of teens I see no harm in trying an experiment using a model and a leaf blower. I think that the lesson in critical thinking and experiment design will prove useful. That said, I believe the device will not live up to claims. This is how we learned there was no such thing as the ether medium in space. I have done some rather counterintuitive things in my life such as roast a marshmallow between my fingers without getting burned and building fairings for mountain bikes immune to side winds.


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