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-   -   Random UnAerodynamic Cars and Trucks Thread (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/random-unaerodynamic-cars-trucks-thread-32800.html)

kach22i 09-21-2015 09:00 AM

Random UnAerodynamic Cars and Trucks Thread
 
We spend a lot of the time in the forum exploring what it is to be "aerodynamic".

At times it might be helpful to explore and examine the "un-aerodynamic" to remind ourselves what we best avoid in order to be successful in our ecomodding endeavors.

A few recent examples which have amused and bemused me.

1963 Studebaker Westinghouse Pickup Truck Concept
1963 Studebaker Westinghouse Pickup Truck Concept - HowStuffWorks
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442603481.jpg
Quote:

Image Gallery: Concept Cars The 1963 Studebaker Westinghouse pickup concept was a simply styled cab-over-engine (COE) design with flat, easily stamped body panels. See more concept car pictures.
2007 Publications International, Ltd.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442603551.jpg



The 1963 Studebaker Westinghouse Pickup Truck Concept Car Project - HowStuffWorks
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442603605.jpg
Quote:

Though obviously not aerodynamic, the 1963 Studebaker Westinghouse pickup truck concept pickup afforded great driver vision.
2007 Publications International, Ltd.
http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/1963-stud...cept-4.jpg.jpg

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/1963-stud...cept-5.jpg.jpg
1966 -- The End of the Road for Studebaker Vehicles - HowStuffWorks


dual-engine | Hemmings Daily
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442604626.jpg

aerohead 09-21-2015 04:31 PM

un-
 
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled14_8.jpg

2000mc 09-21-2015 05:27 PM

http://media2.newsnet5.com/photo/201....0_640_480.jpg
This isn't the actual one I saw, but the last place I worked in Indiana painted one of these beasts black for swat

freebeard 09-21-2015 09:01 PM

I'll repost the last one I put in the other thread, because although it's better than a stock Unimog, overall it's a basket case.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442350859.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1442350869.jpg

https://www.google.com/search?q=neverwas+haul

https://soapboxdespot.files.wordpres...pg?w=299&h=300

What's that dust cloud on the horizon? Mad Max cars?

http://www.automechanicschools.net/w...hedralcar1.jpg
http://www.automechanicschools.net/blog/weird-car-modifications/

There's a Beetle in there somewhere.

kach22i 09-21-2015 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 494183)
I'll repost the last ....?

That first vehicle, it also made the Pelican Parts forum recently. I would have posted it, but like the plan view too much. I'm a sucker for rounded front edges I guess.

Regarding UnAerodynamic v's NonAerodynamic terms, the moderators are free to correct my English at any time, I will take no offense.:)

iamnotahippee 09-21-2015 10:29 PM

Wow, I actually do really like the Stude, but i am a sucker for a Studebaker of any kind.

freebeard 09-22-2015 02:12 AM

kach22i -- That's because I follow along behind you in the Pelican Parts thread. I'd seen the two you posted here, there.

iamnotahippee -- my first car

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...studebaker.jpg

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...studebaker.jpg

The 2nd one is called Stupidbaker (money and a sense of humor). I know, I know, way off-topic for the thread. Sosume.

mort 09-22-2015 03:17 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You see some fine unaerodynamic cars at Burning Man...
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1442906170


-mort

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 09-22-2015 04:54 AM

That Studebaker truck looks like a toy.

kach22i 09-22-2015 07:12 AM

Last Sunday was the Orphan Car Show in Ypsilanti, Michigan, lots of old Studebaker's there, including a couple of pick-up trucks.


RE: 1963 Studebaker Westinghouse Pickup Truck Concept

"Cab Over Engine" designs fascinate me as much as engine under seat, rear-engine, and mid-engine designs.

I even like that late 1980's engine behind driver's seat Toyota mini van.

Cd 09-22-2015 08:53 PM

http://www.amzcar.com/wp-content/upl...7ukg-Free.jpeg
http://www.auto-facts.org/images/198...s-21293705.jpghttp://datsun510.com/photopost/data/...n-03-0068B.jpg
http://www.flemingsultimategarage.co...115_main_f.jpghttp://aaronsenvironmental.com/wp-co...ind-tunnel.jpg

( Pointed noses and smoke trails don't really mean much. )

kach22i 09-23-2015 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 494308)

Coefficient of drag for 240Z??? - Miscellaneous Tech - HybridZ
Quote:

I wrote this down one time, I don't know where it came from but here it goes: The CD for a 240Z is .476 , and that there is under 20 sq ft of frontal area.
Such beautiful lines on what is that a 240-Z?

Somewhere I have a C of D link bookmarked with many cars listed, did a search and the best I could find is the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rag_of_Car.jpg

Tamerlane's Thoughts: Coefficients of drag of old cars
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KleNbTAUdE...0/CIMG1496.JPG



EDIT: .41 to .42 isn't all impressive for this VW (better than the Z's near .48), and I assume it has a more or less flat floor pan too. I'll admit that a bit perplexed by some of this.

T3 Aerodynamics
http://home.comcast.net/~jaransonT3/...onT3/aero3.gif
Quote:

Looks like it might be the SP2 from the profile
Vw Sp2 1974 Azul/Blue
Vw Sp2 1974 Azul - Ano 1974 - 94000 km - no MercadoLivre
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443020274.jpg

MORE random pics...... - Page 3619 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443016095.jpg

Still better C of D than a brick though, right?

I was showing brick-like vehicles when I started this thread, suppose we could or should keep to that theme?

freebeard 09-23-2015 11:43 AM

It's your thread of course, but that would exclude thin-fendered, wedge shape vehicles.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IheQCcmef4...0/DSC_0164.JPG

http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2015/09/von-dutchs-toad-made-of-old-road-signs.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Rw0aV2wFgN...0/DSC_0152.JPG

UFO 09-23-2015 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 494330)
I was showing brick-like vehicles when I started this thread, suppose we could or should keep to that theme?

Not at all, show whatever sucks, but it is disappointing to see my beloved 240Z pictured. I don't drive it for mileage though; it's a track racer and the bad aero helps me take load off my brakes entering the turns.

chefdave 09-23-2015 12:27 PM

Hi my motorhome must come under the heading UNAERODYAMIC but freebeard has given me some pointers to help clean it up. Look at my profile and hope it has photo of it.

jamesqf 09-23-2015 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 494347)
Not at all, show whatever sucks, but it is disappointing to see my beloved 240Z pictured.

So what's worse, a Cd of 0.42 and A of 20 (rough guess for 240Z area) or Cd of 0.21 and A of 50 (typical SUV area)?

freebeard 09-23-2015 05:39 PM

A 0.21 Cd SUV might be a stretch limo with a fineness ratio of 2.78:1 or whatever.

I guess the Clark Cortez I owned qualifies as a brick ...with an 8" bevel on the windshield edges.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...2-p1010018.jpg

Cd 09-23-2015 07:43 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...a-camper-3.jpg

How about that one ?

I'd love to see this disaster in a windtunnel.

arcosine 09-23-2015 09:34 PM

http://i.ushipcdn.com/resize.php?pat...pg&w=270&h=210

2000mc 09-23-2015 10:02 PM

YKYAEM when you see a backhoe, and think about boattail deployment mechanisms

kach22i 09-23-2015 10:30 PM

Random TRANSPORTATION pictures - Page 1573 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443054666.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7120/7...7f399f48_z.jpg

Just some more variety.

redpoint5 09-23-2015 11:50 PM

I have seen a few of these in the wild. What is the Cd of a brick again?

http://vogeltalksrving.com/wp-conten...us.a09-560.jpg

jamesqf 09-24-2015 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 494367)
A 0.21 Cd SUV might be a stretch limo with a fineness ratio of 2.78:1 or whatever.

Sure, but I guess you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that the best possible aerodynamics won't compensate for too big a cross section.

As for the tractors &c, what point to aerodynamics when your top speed is maybe 10 mph?

arcosine 09-24-2015 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 494382)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...a-camper-3.jpg

How about that one ?

I'd love to see this disaster in a windtunnel.

Yes it needs a 460ci engine just to go 55 mph.

kach22i 09-24-2015 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 494410)
What is the Cd of a brick again?

I tried looking that up yesterday because the same question popped into my head. I didn't come up with much, but this morning I looked at this page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...4ilf1l.svg.png

A brick is not listed, but a cube is, and a long cylinder is.

I'm going to guess somewhere near 1.0 is the Cd of a brick.

EDIT: Found some other stuff, not so sold on some of it's accuracy.

Quote:

The drag coefficient of a brick is typically 2.1. The drag coefficient of an upright person is anywhere between 1.0 and 1.3.

http://www.kgbanswers.com/what-is-th...brick/22219529
Read more http://www.kgbanswers.com/what-is-th...#ixzz3mevdXHWe

I remember posting information on "Blunt Bodies" in the forum a few years ago, some of them with close proximity to the ground.

EDIT-2: FYI - I think bricks are called square cylinders.

Got that from here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...17931011004327

And got that from the thread I remembered:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...y-11592-8.html

EDIT-3:

http://www.calqlata.com/proddetail.asp?prod=00021
http://www.calqlata.com/prodimages/A...Drag%201-1.PNG
Quote:

Long Prism (face): Calculates the shape coefficients of a long rectangular beam with the fluid flowing at right-angles to the axis of the beam against a flat face
There ya go, just over 1.0 as projected/assumed earlier.

I should note that proximity to the ground is a pretty big factor not to be ignored.

kach22i 09-24-2015 09:01 AM

MORE random pics...... - Page 3619 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443040353.jpg
Quote:

Alerted by the smell of a broken bottle of liquor, Federal Agents inspect a "lumber truck." Los Angeles, 1926

freebeard 09-24-2015 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf
As for the tractors &c, what point to aerodynamics when your top speed is maybe 10 mph?

Three words "art deco toaster"

It appears from the Wikipedia chart that the brick does better in a 45 cross-wind.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 09-28-2015 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 494330)
.41 to .42 isn't all impressive for this VW (better than the Z's near .48), and I assume it has a more or less flat floor pan too. I'll admit that a bit perplexed by some of this.

T3 Aerodynamics
http://home.comcast.net/~jaransonT3/...onT3/aero3.gif


Vw Sp2 1974 Azul/Blue
Vw Sp2 1974 Azul - Ano 1974 - 94000 km - no MercadoLivre
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443020274.jpg

MORE random pics...... - Page 3619 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1443016095.jpg

The SP2 is weird with its square front-end in contrast to its smooth rear end. Have you ever seen one live? I still see some once in a while.

kach22i 09-28-2015 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 494827)
The SP2 is weird with its square front-end in contrast to its smooth rear end. Have you ever seen one live? I still see some once in a while.

I'm not sure if I have, I'm getting old in the head.

I did see a cousin of it in 2011, the Puma.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-27014-3.html
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...w/DSCF1072.jpg

Cd 09-28-2015 05:06 PM

http://www.holdenplantrentals.com/up...t_2010_002.jpg

Nice and sleek, until the air get trapped in that area behind the cab !

This one doesn't count - it's not street legal :

http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Cate...0059312?$cc-g$

I've been unsuccessful at finding a picture of a city maintenance truck with their signage up, but I know we have all seen them.
It's a giant flat sign on the bed of the truck that rotates. It has a flashing arrow to alert motorist of construction ahead.
Unfortunately, I see plenty of these trucks driving along with the sign still up, versus folded down.

aerohead 09-28-2015 05:17 PM

Brick Cd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 494410)
I have seen a few of these in the wild. What is the Cd of a brick again?

http://vogeltalksrving.com/wp-conten...us.a09-560.jpg

Cd 0.88 if its on wheels.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...ead2/Scan1.jpg

Cd 09-28-2015 05:21 PM

I think that the Winnebago I posted earlier is about the worst I have seen.

By the way, the tractor that was posted here is ...well...beautiful ! ( did I just call a tractor beautiful ? )

Cd 09-28-2015 05:24 PM

So Aerohead, which is worse - a brick like vehicle like the Winnebago, or something like this : http://4wheelonline.com/images/article/jeep-lift1.jpg

My guess is on the Jeep.

Scratch that - I'm certain of it !

aerohead 09-28-2015 05:33 PM

4-Wheel Online
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cd (Post 494885)
So Aerohead, which is worse - a brick like vehicle like the Winnebago, or something like this : http://4wheelonline.com/images/article/jeep-lift1.jpg

My guess is on the Jeep.

Scratch that - I'm certain of it !

I couldn't get to the 4-wheel link,but I'd say that the Winnebago would seem like a Mako Shark compared to some 4-wheelers I see around.
Cd 0.7+ drag coefficients.
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled15_2.jpg

freebeard 09-28-2015 05:49 PM

4wheelonline is blocking your hyperlink, so I use my imagination: Full External Roll Cage w/ Brush Guard.

To be fair to the Mitsubishi, the cab is generic. And I think if the Cat had a Template-conforming load it would be pretty good —it's got a diverter in front, the problematic bits are tucked up under an overhang, and even a full length side skirt.

You should see the tractor I linked in the other thread.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 09-29-2015 07:34 AM

Agrale TX-1600
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sRMGLHi38L...Imagem0422.jpg

Some random Mercedes-Benz class 7 rig
http://spb.fotolog.com.br/photo/59/4...29757859_f.jpg

Volkswagen Constellation-series truck, A.K.A. "Sponge Bob" due to the square shape of its cab
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ckNKzMB4l5.../Photo8755.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 494890)
To be fair to the Mitsubishi, the cab is generic.[/URL].

And it's still better than the cabs used in the Ford Cargo and in those Brazilian-made Peterbilt/Kenworth cab-forwards.

Ford Cargo with the late-2000 facelift
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z0kvddNihw.../Photo6612.jpg

VW trucks still use the same cab featured in the Brazilian Peterbilt and Kenworth cab-forwards
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y1W3B3B7Yl.../Photo4730.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xTsxKxoQTZ.../Photo6848.jpg

kach22i 09-29-2015 10:51 AM

The fineness ratio and small changes to a basic "Bus shape", are to be respected.

I'm learning something from this topic.

EDIT: found this debatable graphic and claims.

http://www.icbus.com/bus/articles/greenshields
http://www.icbus.com/~/media/Navista...CD441CBC1E15A6

EDIT-2: more....................

http://midwestenergynews.com/2012/08...e-efficiently/
http://e67ti2w9ws71al8xmnhsozd3.wpen...eenshields.jpg

http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2014/08/12/smart-science
http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/sites...ohen%20014.JPG
Quote:

Over the years, Cohen and his team have won multiple awards to help fund their efforts. First, Cohen won a $1,000 grant from Ashoka Youth Venture to get his project off the ground. Then in 2010, the team won a $25,000 award from the Pepsi Refresh Project to further research and development.

This year, Cohen is receiving a $36,000 award from the Diller Teen Tikkun Olam Awards for both his research and education. Cohen and his mother, Jakee Cohen, both expressed their gratitude toward the Helen Diller Family Foundation.
I like this comment:
http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2014/08/12/smart-science
Quote:

KenC • a year ago
While I applaud the efforts of these young people to promote energy conservation, the claims that a simple fairing added to a school bus could cut overall fuel consumption by 10-20% is an extraordinary one (that claim is made on your show and on their site). Extraordinary, because air drag has little effect at speeds below 40 mph, where most school buses spend most of their time, and the fairing is relatively small.

Tests were done by Georgia Tech on tractor-trailer trucks ( gtri.gatech.edu/casestudy/boos... ) with more extensive aerodynamic modifications, and they measured less than 7% fuel efficiency improvements at speeds of 65-75 mph. Since air drag is a square law, only 1/4 the savings would be seen at 35 mph (< 2%).

As Carl Sagan says, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I would like to see the details of the test conditions and data that lead them to make these claims. Not providing this data on the web site raises concerns. I fear that Greenshields will be a dead end, perhaps these entrepreneurs should invest their personal energy in a more promising area?
http://americanprofile.com/articles/...-bus-retrofit/
https://pgoaamericanprofile2.files.w...0&h=405&crop=1

I think they would get better use of that shield if they cut it off at the high point, and attached it to the back top edge of the bus.

I like the idea, but Aerohead has answered this same question many times in the forum and said the additional frontal area just doesn't pay off. At least that's what I recall, will stand corrected if my memory is bad.

freebeard 09-29-2015 11:41 AM

A better solution would be a half-round over the 'School Bus' sign and flashing lights.

kach22i 09-29-2015 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 494975)
A better solution would be a half-round over the 'School Bus' sign and flashing lights.

Yea, but that probably would not net the lad +$60,000.............things which look like they should work, typically make more money that those things which really do work.

Perception is everything in marketing, and this kid has a good marketing scam going. I suspect his parents may have something to do with that, just a guess.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 09-29-2015 02:16 PM

The current generation of Brazilian buses is aerodynamically better than those stereotypical American schoolies, even though they're usually forward-control.


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