Reflections upon being “nice” and being banned
 

Recently I was banned from this forum for a week because I said some comments in response to others on this list that were being provocative and inflammatory, and who were allowed to do so with the tacit approval of the administration. The only reason I was given by a moderator upon my being banned and silenced was that I should “be nice”.

Is being “nice” a requirement on this list? What does “be nice” mean? Who is the judge of what “niceness” is? I suspect that being less than “nice” is anything that displeases a moderator acting as Nanny. Only Nanny the moderator knows whatever his arbitrary definition of what niceness is: there is no objective standard here other than it being anything that displeases Nanny. IMHO, that is what is imposed in places like China, where those in authority use censorship and intimidation in a forcible attempt to keep everyone in line – particularly anyone who might say anything that might be an embarrassment to those in authority.

The moderator previously suggested to me that I am a “troll”. Indeed I do have a personal commitment to insisting that I have the right to respond in a civil way to provocative statements made by others. So does responding make me a "troll"? If I had never contributed anything to this list other than to be provocative, and if it amounted to nothing more than that then that might be plausible; but if you were to review ALL of my posts and their content you would find that is not the case at all. It is remarkable that a moderator labels only the respondent as being a “troll” here, but never the provocateur.

I cannot be “nice” to suck up to anyone’s arbitrary idea of “niceness”, nor would I ever want to be “nice” in that way. I cannot and I will not submit to any nebulous demand for it.

To those who run this list I suggest that you reconsider the arbitrary policy of banning and silencing members based upon a lack of “niceness” as it is fundamentally untenable. The command to “be nice” may be effective with gullible young children who are easily cowed and intimidated. But if you continue the attempted intimidation of adults, treating them as if they were children, it will have consequences.

Fair enough. Good bye, again.

I considered a point-by-point response to what you have written here, but it's just not worth the effort.

Suffice to say that the overwhelming majority of other members have figured out (intuitively, or otherwise if they're not naturally inclined) how to interact productively with others. Sorry, you haven't.

The flavor of the site seems to be one of abrupt correctness
with no attempt at politeness. Almost every post is someone correcting someone else with less then pleasant wording.
ie: I get my best mileage during spring.
answer: makes no sense are you keeping records?

Everything is a argument rather then a proper discussion with statements like :I have found" or in my experience i have noticed the opposite( rather then You got it wrong use the search function that's what its for)
I myself am making a effort to improve my posting manners, To be more aware of my choice of words
and tone. I want to have a persona that is not annoying, So i am trying! Arrogance is a flaw that can only annoy.
Thymeclock i wrote not at you but about myself.
I know your pain as you watch others misbehaving you cannot help but speak up, turns out it just makes matter worst and sinks one to the level they disapprove of themselves.

i was once banned from a different site for telling someone that their post sounded bigoted. I was banned. It really hurt me and I did some soul searching and some research. I never went back to the site because i still thought the post sounded bigoted. Notice i did not say they were a bigot, i didnt even say the posting WAS bigoted. I just decided that a community that stuck up for people who think like that is not for me.

I also understand that someone pays for these forums to be hosted. They are not just found spaces that spring up. They are carefully crafted communities and the good ones have great moderators who set the general tone. I find this site to have a pretty good tone and most people are pretty helpful. I have seen my share of discussions that go haywire, but t is important to stick to the main point made by the OP and not get off topic into screaming matches.

I value this site's overall "Just the facts Maam, just the facts," * style.
(* Sgt. Joe Friday, original TV Dragnet series.)

But I admit it, that I also enjoy it when a personal details creep in.
i'm thinking of Piwoslaw's mention of Mrs. P and p, the little P.
Likewise Old Mech's Dad. (I hope I got that right. :o )
It makes me feel like it's a real person out there.

More to the point, there is an art to being able to pleasantly disagree with
someone whether in a face to face meeting, in a letter, or on the "Net. For
the most part, good politicians, priests/clerics, and good teachers learn how
to do it early on if they are to be successful. And after a while they do it
without thinking about it.

Good communicators realize that there are two parts to any communication;
the message/meaning/meat and the presentation. It is the communicators
responsibility to craft what they say in a way that their messsage will be
listened too, even when it is not what the receiver may want to hear. This is
not a compromise or a sellout.

An otherwise on-topic, relevant, and factual message gets nowhere if it is
presented in an abrasive, demeaning, holier-than-thou, or know-it-all
manner. On the other hand, a weak message can win a reprieve and a
chance for clarification of ammentment if it has a mature, calm, non-
judgemental presentation.

Good communicators do not use "red flag" or "hot button" emotionally
charged words, even when angered or frustrated. There are some pretty
universal such words; level of intelligence words, racial or sexual orientation
slurs. There are also additional such words for specific audiences.

"Know your audience" is just as important as knowing your enemy...

Likewise, knowing your moderator(s).

It's a real challenge.

Rokeby: well said.

For the record, it eats me up whenever we (moderators) get to the point of possibly banning someone. I really, really, really don't like doing it. (Ask Tim - daox - how much time I spent talking it over and discussing options, and probably boring him close to death. Also, there's a moderators-only subforum where we talk through these things as a group.)

So if I'm the one doing the banning, I always contact the member privately first, in the hopes of addressing the problem. Doesn't always work. (Happy to say sometimes it does, though.)

Fortunately banning is very rare. We're now in our 4th year here, and I can count on one hand the number of people who have been banned for reasons other than being spammers. It's never taken lightly.

I am a moderator on two other forums (SilentPCReview.com and ApteraForum.com) for many years, and I know some of the difficult considerations that are required to do a good job. Mix in the hard stuff with the mundane and boring and non-stop effort to fight Spam, and I hope that folks will realize what it takes to have an energetic and helpful "place" like this EcoModder.com forum. I know that there were at least two people banned in this situation, and so I think it was handled fairly.

We need to agree or disagree without being disagreeable. We need to discuss/debate/argue without being personal, or uncivil. Something I have learned that may help others, is by admitting to your mistakes and by acknowledging when others are correct, and admitting when you don't know something or making your own counter-arguments -- all *helps* your own credibility.

Group therapy for mods;)

That was Arragonis, with Mrs A and A Jr.
But now that I have a son...:D

I like seeing threads like this in forums. I'm a member of several other automotive forums, mostly performance, and there seem to be quite a few people who forget how to communicate; whether they agree or disagree with the person they respond to appears to be irrelevant.

Seeing something being openly discussed like this, where even the mods come in to further explain the way they approach banning makes me happy to be a part of this forum. It seems to me that most of the people here are willing to share information, correct others, and be corrected without making attacks or saying things in an unnecessarily crude or crass way.

It's nice to see (even more) proof that this forum is a community, reaching for a good common goal, and not just a bunch of people being obnoxious to one another.

We're as classy as politicians, with having the ability to tell someone to figuratively "get lost" in such a manner that they look forward to the trip. :)

To those who run this list I suggest that you reconsider the arbitrary policy of banning and silencing members based upon a lack of “niceness” as it is fundamentally untenable. The command to “be nice” may be effective with gullible young children who are easily cowed and intimidated. But if you continue the attempted intimidation of adults, treating them as if they were children, it will have consequences.

there is a perfect example of a grumpy ol man.
THe magic was lost. the trick to writing all the time is to 'try' to catch the social ques that everyone is rolling their eyes at you. That is what gets us to hold out tongue in public.

SoCal Civil - Represent brother!
 

It is a delicate balance between human civility and normal no BS talk. I live in the foreign country of Texas where ignorance rules. It is a very hard task to bite ones tongue when someone is totally not understanding why you take a 45mpg car everywhere that does everything you need to drop your kids off at school when a deer "could" hit the car because you drive like an ass and not pay attention! Sorry for the rant from a newbie but I need to post so that I can share pict and stuff on my sweet, sweet Toyota Echo.....The Dude

then move to California.......or see a shrink.
I could give 10 reasons why Texas is a great place, but why bother.
The sad part is your lack of awareness. And your ability to adapt and grow.

That is what your are lacking. Not what Texas is lacking.
Introspection is a valuable skill.

(ps. I'm probably the worst.....but at least I am aware)

Sometimes an apparently-unoffensive quote can be misunderstood, among other little things that make it quite hard to the moderators, and sure there are also a few trolls always around, coming not to add anything positive but just to set fire to the circus as we say in Brazil. Since I'm not exactly an example of patience to mediate such conflicts, I don't believe I'd ever be a good moderator to any forum. At least for me, altough it's extremely subjective, it doesn't sound really complicated to "be nice", but often there are the ones who like to play the victim card when there is an objection to what they say, even if it's actually a positive feedback.


I still never went to Texas, but from what I've already found out, I can list at least 3.

Guns, Tex-Mex cuisine and trucks :D

It comes down to asking yourself right before you hit the "post quick reply" button:
Am I doing this to contribute or am I doing this to prove to everybody how educated I am?
Unfortunately the latter happens a lot in this forum, and unfortunately I cannot claim innocence.

mechman,
some truth to what you said......but that is the nature of this particle forum that attractsd me.
The average poster IS smart. heck, the majority of the posters are smarter than the average person.
Very few 'one line posts' here.
There are some threads that I can't even follow.......
But that's appealing.

True. Very true. Especially the bit about some threads that I can't even follow. I'll toast to that!

Oh my what a strange thread this is! my 2 cents is that even people dumb as I have good contributions. just kidding I would say that for the most part the word average doesnt even apply. Average would be viewing porn or such like not ways to help a person get another 1/8th of a mile and be excited bout it.
We are techno geeks admit it! But no where near average people.
I kinda wish I was some days though!

Thanks...
 

Love your insight into me. Maybe it is my area where huge vehicles rule. I am sure Dallas, Houston, etc. are all somewhat different. No need to adapt for me here and buy a huge truck....the streets are paved. Thanks for the advice and response (me being nice).....Shad

Blimey didn't even know this had happened :eek:

my point made......
You completely missed the point. "Adapting" was not about buying something. It's about growing internally. Maturing. Discernment.

You need to be comfortable with yourself and the things you do.:thumbup:

Come on, so you drive an economy car. There are guys on here driving cars w/ home-made boat-tails who live in bigger hick areas than you and they aren't bothered.

Yet you want to 'blame Texas'!???