renault @ Frankfurt : 4 other ugly cars, but electric cars
 

2009 FRANKFURT MOTOR SHOW: Could Ze Renault ZE Concepts Reach Production? | Auto Shows Blog & Discussion at Automobile Magazine

For technical information and a 8 min video with the charge modes, see this in French or through google translate (sorry video not translated ;)

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/aut...-unveiling.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/aut...ze-concept.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/aut...ze-concept.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/aut...ze-concept.jpg

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/aut...ze-concept.jpg

Denis.

Many concept electrics were on a Gizmag link sent to me, and an article about electric cars was in the local newspaper this morning. Rather surprising at the end of summer and not the beginning around here- always enjoyable for me!

The LED strip head lights are intriguing. I wonder if they are functional?

The mini-bubble car is pretty goofy/ugly.


Finest regards,

troy

That last one looks like a moon buggy that the astronauts rejected to drive. Ble :(

I think that crosses the line from ugly to Fugly.

Sort of: but my very first car was a 1959 Renault Dauphine. Now in comparison- the Dauphine was fugly, but these 4 were from hmm to interesting to double hmm to *groan*!

Did you know that you can hot-wire a Dauphine with a long shortwave radio antennae wire? (Oh - wrong thread; sorry) :mad:

:p

That was my very first eco-mod: running a thick copper wire from under the front bonnet where the battery was all the way along the top drip canal to the back of the car where the motor was. The wiring in those Renaults were always messing up, but I don't think that solution did!

Those cars have a Ferlac clutch where you touch the gearshift and the current flowing through you is grounded and engages the clutch. Never did work right! D-D.E. ;)

Apologies for digging the thread up, but better this than starting a new one on the same subject.

Surprises me how little love there seems to be for these electric concepts, given not only how important they are (Renault is making a massive commitment and taking quite a risk releasing four EVs all at the same time), but also that most of the criticism seems to be aimed at their styling, in a forum that likes the Prius and likes Geo Metros and Honda Civics covered in bits of coroplast... :rolleyes:

Beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder and apart from perhaps the Fluence, the others couldn't be called "pretty" as such, but at least they're interesting, and not only that, but they actually work.

Autocar magazine in the UK has tested the Twizy (the small, two-seater city car). The vid is below:


Steve Cropley, the tester, is a fan of these sort of cars and in the last year or so has also driven the Tata Nano and a prototype of Gordon Murray's T25 city car. He seems to give the car a fair bit of praise and I think I'm prepared to trust his judgement. I can't wait to see what a production Twizy will look like.

I remember Cropley's Tata Nano review - he was surprisingly impressed.

He's definitely not cut from the same cloth as the average reviewer. Especially not the same cloth as the average North American reviewer! (And I think that's a good thing.... meaning he doesn't drink the same "POWAAAHH!" Kool-Aid that the majority of the motoring press seems to.)

Renault was concerned about 60 cent gas while we were enjoying 27 cent gas, and we were laughing then. Who is laughing now??!? Not so much laughing now that gas is WAY up there in price. I think Renault and Nissan are still building power stations in CA. I hope Renault gets more involved in US transportation. In the North American Auto Show were photos of a Triac and a Tango EVs and several hybrids. I hope Renault is in that show.

You're right, Cropley was very positive about the Nano. His accompanying article in Autocar magazine was excellent.

He seems significantly more down-to-earth than many reviewers which is refreshing - yet he can't be criticised for being too down to earth either, given that he says the best car he drove in 2009 was Rolls Royce's new Ghost! Even that though is reassuring as it means he has some perspective - he doesn't solely drive tiny city cars all the time.

I share his excitement for the Twizy though. It'll be as important in 2013 as the Smart was back in 1998. And it's worth remembering that Nicolas Hayek of Swatch actually wanted the Smart to be electric all the way back then - perhaps Renault will be the company to finally kick electric powertrains into the mainstream.

AJI -

I think your statement dovetails nicely into what I just read at the Edison2 blog :

Edison2: The Very Light Car (X PRIZE Contender) - The Very Light Blog
I found the above when I was reading this thread :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ery-11841.html

I think you are seeing a predominately engineer's POV, aka form follows function. In this case, the form of the car does not follow the function of aerodynamic improvement, so the form is bad.

For the record, I understand your POV. The big boys are trying, but they're (literally) dragging all their baggage with them (and putting it into the trunk, making everything even heavier). They feel they *have* to provide a car that supplies at least all of the amenities of a compact car because they think they can't make money without meeting that standard.

CarloSW2

I know what you're saying. I'll concur that none of the Renault EVs look particularly aero-influenced (though the Zoe and Fluence don't look too bad aerodynamically - see the pics below). With the Twizy, I'd argue that it doesn't matter, as it's a city car with a very limited top speed (only 40 or 50mph if I recall correctly) and it'll spend much of it's time doing even less than that, in stop-start city traffic. Aero in this instance is far less important than outright utility, and function can give way to form as far as styling goes.

Zoe
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q...cept-Car-1.jpg

Fluence
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q...cept-Car-2.jpg

The same can perhaps be said about the Kangoo EV van - as a small delivery van it'll spend almost all it's time in a city environment (limited range will take care of that too, of course) and of course with commercial vehicles, "function" is related to carrying capacity rather than aero efficiency.

To be fair on Renault and other big automakers, they do have to provide a car that supplies the normal amenities, because the challenge is weaning the general public off the sort of cars they're used to. I suspect, if I straw-polled people I know, I'd actually find a lot of people (petrolheads aside) who'd be interested in driving an electric car provided that it a) offered them everything a normal car "should" offer them, and b) they didn't have to make too many range/recharging-related compromises. The second issue is the biggest one really, but that'll come in due course.

For the time being, Renault are probably doing the right thing by making EVs that are very much like "normal" cars.

And function aside, I think the Zoe and Fluence are very attractive designs, and the Twizy and Kangoo are "interesting", in a good way.

AJI -

I agree that the Zoe is a good looking design. If I have time, maybe I'll run it through Flow Illustrator. The Fluence is a conventional car design based on the Samsumg SM3, but with a flashy exterior for the show. I know about the Samsung because it was supposed to be the new car in the now dead Penske/Saturn deal :

http://www.saturnfans.com/files/imag...M3.preview.jpg

CarloSW2

That'd be really interesting to see :)

I'd forgotten about the Samsung connection, actually. That car is essentially a Renault anyway, as Samsung have a share in Renault (or the other way around - I forget). If Wikipedia is to be believed, the SM3 is based on the Nissan Bluebird Sylphy which in turn is on Nissan's B-platform, which is used by the Renault Clio, Modus and Twingo. The production Fluence (below) seems heavily Megane-influenced though - as far as I'm aware the interior is identical to the current Megane.

http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/upl...ew-588x421.jpg

What this does make me wonder is whether the Fluence's electric drivetrain will slot happily into the current or next-gen Megane or not - if Renault are after volume EV sales the Megane seems like a reasonable option.

AJI -

Here ya' go :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=babMl_E6t2w

CarloSW2

id drive the little one

it looks like a step up from a GEM anyhow

hopefully its weird enough so people wont steal it

Thanks :) Interesting to see on a concept.

I've not been a regular posted on EM for too long, though I have seen a few of those flow vids before. As far as I can tell, the Zoe actually looks pretty good, though flow from underneath the car seems to be spoiling the flow of attached air over the roof, am I right? Flow over the roof seems to be quite good otherwise.

AJI -

The Flow Illustrator is a tricky animal. The thread on it is a monster to read.

Flow from under the car will always be bad. My interpretation is that the curving downslope is too much, aka like a VW Beetle. I think it needs to be extended like so :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...llustrator.jpg

I say this because I think I am seeing a "virtual kamm-back" (or boat tail?!?!?) forming in the swirls. Notice that this makes it look like the new Prius and Insight. More interior volume too!

Articles I have read state that the Zoe does deploy a spoiler at highway speeds (just like the new VW Beetle), so maybe they are accounting for what I think is needed.

CarloSW2

To be honest ,in my case , I wouldn't give a mule's a$$ about how my vehicle looks as long as it would drive well, have excellent safety and get 100+ MPG..
It could even look like this turtle :turtle:

The first three don't look too bad, modern, perhaps not aerodynamically efficient, but not bad. The Twizzy OTOH, looks like a golf cart with giant spinner rims, AND makes a sound like a toy radio-controlled car. Whatever electrics should look like, they shouldn't sound like that. Pass. :rolleyes:

the ducka-ducka-ducka-ducka-clack-clack-clack-clack sound kinda sux

but if that could be smoother, id like it even more

lose some of the futurized styling (rims), change the gay name twizzy

make it affordable and im good to go

I like the delivery van- Kangoo I think- being extremely functional. Electric vehicles hit a wall when GEMs, Lidos, Zaps, and Zenns began self-destructing. I see the few left in welding repair shops. Now, none are available *new* in my town- mail order only I think. Green Vehicles is opening in Salinas, CA. (about 30 miles from here). I wish them luck.
Th!nk is building in the U.S.; so I hope Renault does too someday.

I like the design of their vans line-up. That's one think I hated when I was in the states, the boxy, terrible shape of the vans, the typical Fords and GMCs, those Econolines or whatever they are called... To be honest it felt like going to Cuba and seeing the Lada's and '50's cars everywhere...stuck in the past. no offence intended to anyone

Renault vans

I think you may be right. I noticed the turbulence in that particular area too, though to my eyes it appeared to be being caused by airflow from the underside - so perhaps the spoiler you mention has a hand in actually stopping turbulent air affecting the attached air coming off the roof.

It's perhaps worth remembering that the Twizy driven in the video is the only one in existance, and it's essentially a concept car, not remotely ready for production. The drivetrain does sound a bit rough but no doubt that's to do with the infancy of the project. I doubt they'd release such a noisy beast onto the market...

Renault's vans are quite nice as vans go, as are Peugeot and Citroen's efforts - the market for small vans like that is massive in Europe so it helps to be good at them.

The US vans have their own appeal I think, but technologically they're far, far behind European vans. Ford's top-line Transit with the 3.2 TDCi engine produces similar torque to Ford's 5.4-litre V8 used in the E-Series, and no doubt achieves better fuel economy too.

Ya, I suppose they have their "classic" look but good thing you mentioned the engines because that's exactly where I was aiming...Ok, the design/look might not be too bad, although aerodynamically they probably struggle at high speed, but the engines are all mostly gas-guzzling V8's mostly gasoline driven..Diesels fit the bill much better, with lower fuel consumption and with the max. torque typically available at much lower rotational engine speeds. Of course nothing sounds better than those V8's .
While being in the US, the small company I was working for had arranged transportation because our workplace was located in another city, 20-30 miles away and we were being transported back and forth in these Econoline's. The seating arrangements were simply atrocious and hard to get in/out, good thing most of the time there was only few of us. I'm comparing this to the Iveco's, Merc's Renault's that dominate the market here in Europe. And of course those Diesel engines make a big difference. A friend of mine (Romanian) owns a small shuttle company and uses Mercedes Sprinter as his work horse. I rode many times in his vans when I was a student and made friends with most of the drivers. They were telling me about the fuel consumption and those vans, equipped with 2.2/2.7 turbo diesels engines were getting very good mileage, 8l/100km (30MPG) average fuel consumption.