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-   -   Repair cost for aluminum F-150 body (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/repair-cost-aluminum-f-150-body-31101.html)

Daox 01-31-2015 10:18 AM

Repair cost for aluminum F-150 body
 
Edmunds took a sledge hammer to their brand new $50k F-150 to see how it would hold up and also how much to repair it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQZu8K51ZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um7UpIA4X0s

jakobnev 01-31-2015 10:40 AM

Better to just splash some mud over the dent.

Frank Lee 01-31-2015 10:44 AM

That expensive and fancy lighting doesn't seem like a good idea on the back of a truck that actually gets used for work. <Ha Ha, What am I thinking???

Decades ago Robert Cumberford wrote an article for Automobile magazine about expensive high-tech lighting in that it would make vehicles basically unrepairable/unrestorable because of the expense... or they may have to make substitutes:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...0212009001.jpg

Travis needed to give identical smacks to a steel box for strength comparison.

ksa8907 01-31-2015 10:46 AM

Im impressed, I would have expected it to poke a hole in the panel.

ME_Andy 01-31-2015 10:56 AM

Wow that's an expensive truck and repair! I was also surprised at how small the dents were, though. And the truck looks gorgeous.

nemo 01-31-2015 11:02 AM

$800 taillight = lots of trucks running around with broken lights.

vskid3 01-31-2015 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 466109)
Travis needed to give identical smacks to a steel box for strength comparison.

I agree. For all we know, it could end up doing more damage and take longer to repair. In any case, I personally wouldn't pay anything to get dents repaired on the bed of a truck.

pgfpro 01-31-2015 12:27 PM

The cost to repair the new Ford F150 is is going to be an issue?

Ford is wanting Body Shops to build special clean rooms, have special tools aluminum specific hammers and dollies etc. that can not be used on any other type of metal due to cross-contamination.:rolleyes:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/01...015-f-150.html

In my area the shops I sell too, out of 100+ shops only two of them are meeting the Ford requirements. Most of my local area shops don't even want any of the new Ford Truck repair business. One shop that I call on has already over 30k invested in just the clean room for these new trucks.

Galvanic Corrosion is another major concern. Galvanic Corrosion is define as a electrochemical action of two dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte and an electron conductive path. The front frame rails and inner structure parts are aluminum bolt on part's that will require special fasteners to keep Galvanic Corrosion from happening.
My concern is will the tech's repair these vehicles correctly and use the correct fasteners to bolt together these parts. A good example of failure is some of Fords SUV vehicles from the past have rear lift hatches with over 80% of them corroding around latch area, and these vehicles are no longer under warranty. IMO Ford failed in design of these older lift hatches and now decided to build front frame components out of aluminum???

user removed 01-31-2015 01:47 PM

Consider this as a perfect example of why car companies are reluctant to adopt new technology.

regards
mech

gone-ot 01-31-2015 03:55 PM

So, does this make the Ford F-150 a *beer-can* truck...ie: made of recycled beer/soda cans...well, YES!

Baltothewolf 02-02-2015 05:20 AM

The headlight on a Hyundai sonata hybrid is 1,100$.

P-hack 02-02-2015 07:58 AM

I like bumper cars, seriously, or those postal vehicle bumpers, form follows function, not fashion trends...

http://postalmuseum.si.edu/collectio...s/1d_LLV-1.jpg

edit: saw followup, how is it $120/hour to work on aluminum?!? vs $60 for steel? And why are the insurance rates double the out of pocket?

I'm not saying I want to pay more, but some serious shenanigans here. No wonder we total so many cars.

Fat Charlie 02-02-2015 08:17 AM

There are travelling dent repair guys who have everything they need to work on steel in their trunks. If body shops are building clean rooms, buying new tools and probably running a guy through an aluminum repair training class just on the off chance that they get a new F-150 in the shop this year, then it costs them more to repair aluminum rigs. Those extra costs aren't spread out over the whole collision market, but exist only because of new F-150 owners- so insuring one is going to cost more, too.

P-hack 02-02-2015 08:31 AM

I suppose that makes sense on some level, but I never understood the "truck" mentality. I don't usually kind to criticisms about style, but you talk about lipstick on a pig? It hauls stuff, it is supposed to get dinged up, they aren't ugly enough, how many hormones are getting in our beef that guys actually care what it looks like?!?

Besides, get a trailer :)

Fat Charlie 02-02-2015 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-hack (Post 466368)
I suppose that makes sense on some level, but I never understood the "truck" mentality.

Insecurity.

Did you see the truck ad in the Superbowl live stream where the guy was holding two pictures in a focus group full of little kids? One was of a guy standing with his new pickup. The other was the same shot of the same guy with a little car. He was asking the kids what kind of pet each guy would have. They're generally just a cry for help, anyway.

http://jokemonger.com/wp-content/upl...azzle.com_.jpg

redpoint5 02-02-2015 08:53 PM

Why does the truck need to be repaired in a clean room?

You can MIG weld aluminum using a normal welder and argon.

EDIT: Did I hear that correctly; $52,000 for an F150!

Who is paying that much for a half-ton truck with a regular gasoline engine?

Baltothewolf 02-02-2015 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 466437)
Why does the truck need to be repaired in a clean room?

You can MIG weld aluminum using a normal welder and argon.

EDIT: Did I hear that correctly; $52,000 for an F150!

Who is paying that much for a half-ton truck with a regular gasoline engine?

My uncles roomate payed about that for his F-150 last year.

pgfpro 02-02-2015 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 466437)
Why does the truck need to be repaired in a clean room?

You can MIG weld aluminum using a normal welder and argon.

EDIT: Did I hear that correctly; $52,000 for an F150!

Who is paying that much for a half-ton truck with a regular gasoline engine?

Ford's demands not mine. I think its a joke too!!!

jamesqf 02-03-2015 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf (Post 466448)
My uncles roomate payed about that for his F-150 last year.

Some people just have too much money. Or at any rate had too much before they bought the fancy truck :-)

The sad thing is that a lot of these people are probably making payments, won't have a dime in investments or retirement funds, and in the next economic downturn will be coming to the government (that is, us taxpayers) with their hands out.

Baltothewolf 02-03-2015 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 466551)
Some people just have too much money. Or at any rate had too much before they bought the fancy truck :-)

The sad thing is that a lot of these people are probably making payments, won't have a dime in investments or retirement funds, and in the next economic downturn will be coming to the government (that is, us taxpayers) with their hands out.

He makes 50$ an hour, he has too much money even after buying the truck lmfao.

mikeyjd 02-03-2015 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf (Post 466594)
He makes 50$ an hour, he has too much money even after buying the truck lmfao.

There's no such thing.

Xist 02-03-2015 09:59 PM

How much interest would one pay on a fifty-two thousand-dollar vehicle?

Xist 02-03-2015 09:59 PM

No, but you can have a girl too pretty, or a car too fast...

redpoint5 02-03-2015 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf (Post 466594)
He makes 50$ an hour, he has too much money even after buying the truck lmfao.

Then why does he have your uncle as a roommate? Does he just like sharing his living space with others?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 466642)
No, but you can have a girl too pretty, or a car too fast...

I ain't never had too much fun.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 02-04-2015 12:21 AM

Ford's managing board is definitely going crazy. With all that stupidity increasing its repair costs I guess the folks who really use it as a truck is supposed to be used are going to get a either a Ram or a Silverado.

adam728 02-04-2015 09:15 AM

I think the aluminum body is very hyped up by marketing, and therefor has received a lot of extra attention and criticism from "experts" all over the media and internet.

Aluminum has been used in car and truck bodies for quite some time. Yes there are some special procedures for welding repairs, but painting isn't a very big deal.
  • The F150 already had an aluminum hood with no hype or fanfare, since the 1997 model year.
  • Explorers had aluminum hoods and front fenders 13 years ago.
  • GM put aluminum hoods on cars quite commonly even in the 90's.
  • Big GM suv's have had aluminum lift gates for a number of years
  • GM even did aluminum hoods on some G-bodies back into the 70's.
  • Not to mention all the Jaguar, Land Rover, etc vehicles that have been coming in aluminum for many many years.
  • Aluminum panel vans never get repaired or repainted?

So why all this fear of something "new"? It's not even really new, just a lot of marketing pizzazz involved.

Fat Charlie 02-04-2015 09:19 AM

Ford knows exactly what they're doing.

Insurance and repair costs aren't that big a factor to the new car buyer, especially the idiots buying overpriced POSs that they don't need (full size trucks). Looking at it from supply, manufacturing or marketing perspectives, it's genius even in the short term and it's setting Ford up for longer term success as well.

A quick Googling gets some good info from Car and Driver and Forbes.

Car and Driver:
Quote:

By pre-sorting the scraps into containers of like materials, the analyst predicts Ford will earn $1.20 per pound... if the company didnít separate the four grades of aluminum, it would earn only $.80 per pound. The analystís report goes on to estimate a return of $80 million per year for the company, more than enough to offset the alleged $60 million price tag put on the recycling equipment.

While Ford declined to comment on these findings, itís worth noting that CEO Allan Mulally arrived at Ford after a 35-year career at Boeing Aircraft, a company whose business is largely built on the intelligent and efficient use of aluminum. With a CV like that, it should come as no surprise that Ford would be the first to market an aluminum-intensive mass-market vehicle.
Forbes:
Quote:

Novelis, the worldís largest aluminum recycler, showed Ford how it could afford the switch to higher-priced aluminum... Together they created an innovative supply chain that allows Ford to recover a big chunk of its aluminum costs by selling the scrap back to its suppliers and reusing it.

Hereís how it works: When a vehicle body panel is stamped, about 40% of the metal winds up as scrap. Instead of gathering up all the various metal scraps from its stamping plants in Dearborn, Mich. and Buffalo, N.Y., Ford installed $60 million worth of elaborate pneumatic scrap-handling equipment that will separate the aluminum alloy scraps on conveyors and deposit them in dedicated containers to avoid contamination by other grades of metal.

The loose, shredded scrap is received in bulk dump trucks at the Novelis plant... The pieces are then melted in a 2,000-degree furnace... and it is cast into massive 30,000-pound ingots for subsequent processing. Itís then ready to be rolled into sheets one-sixteenth of an inch thick and shipped in giant coils back to Fordís stamping plants, where the process begins anew.
They're inventing new efficiency in making the truck, and the truck they're making is 700 pounds lighter than the one without aluminum, with all the cascading efficiency benefits that brings. They're ahead of the entire industry on this- and that's before people buy into it's being a "green" truck.

Frank Lee 02-04-2015 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr (Post 466659)
Ford's managing board is definitely going crazy. With all that stupidity increasing its repair costs I guess the folks who really use it as a truck is supposed to be used are going to get a either a Ram or a Silverado.

Ford is leading the way is this segment. Soon the Ram and Silverado will be aluminum as well.

I don't recall this much controversy over other all-aluminum vehicles, ex Audi.

adam728 02-04-2015 09:36 AM

Why are full size trucks POS's?
Why are people buying them idiots?

And we can't look at the fully optioned out sticker and apply it to the entire model line. My wife has been new car shopping, it's fairly easy to take any car and deck it with a huge cost increase. Trucks just seem to get it worse, because you can compare 2wd vs 4wd and regular cab to crew cab, so the differential from base model to stupid-chromed-out-mall-cruiser becomes even larger.

Fat Charlie 02-04-2015 11:31 AM

Why don't you drive a truck? Probably because you 1. Don't need one and 2. Haven't lied to yourself enough to convince yourself that you need one. Most people fall into #1, and most new truck buyers messed up on #2.

A full size truck that is used as a truck is a very useful tool; it's excellent at hauling stuff. It's a horrible people hauler though, and even more so when it's mainly used to haul only one person. People who need to drive one or two people around with maybe a few grocery bags and yet convince themselves that buying a brand new full size truck is the right move, well... Stupid is as stupid does. It keeps the lights on where I work and all, but it's really hard to keep a straight face when I've got a customer who needs a CAI or a chrome tailgate handle.

A $50k Chromemobile is a caricature, yes. We mainly sell ones with body colored trim (and some chrome) in the low 30s (before the remote start, sidesteps, mudflaps, bedliner and tonneau cover). Rarely is an actual work truck on the lot, and a cab & chassis is special order only.

user removed 02-04-2015 12:02 PM

2 Attachment(s)
$300 for the car, nuff said, and it hauls stuff with $50k in change. Or you can ride the bike $650.
Car 5.6 cents a mile, bike 2.6, fuel cost.


regards
mech

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...3&d=1423069424

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...4&d=1423069446

jamesqf 02-04-2015 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie (Post 466693)
A full size truck that is used as a truck is a very useful tool; it's excellent at hauling stuff.

OTOH, my '88 Toyota winds up hauling a lot more stuff than my friends' newish F-150. They don't want to scratch the paint or scuff up the bed liner.

kir_kenix 02-04-2015 12:49 PM

I buy and use trucks regularly. Sometimes new (mainly due to the evil tax system we use here), and most of the times used. I think aluminum bodies are a good idea overall, but I likely won't jump on for a couple of years. Repair costs are going to come down, as more private shops start seeing these vehicles on a more regular basis. It's not like Ford is the first company to go this route.

Aluminum body panels will probably keep box dents from cropping up so frequently. Not uncommon for somebody to bump the box/drop a load on them while using a tractor and loader. Less dents will probably help the resale on farm and construction use trucks as the second owner never wants a beat up vehicle.

Hopefully Ford will keep pushing this, and GM and Dodge jumps on board. Would love to see another 750-1000lb gvw added to the current crop of 250/2500-350/3500 series trucks. That would mean many of us could avoid getting into a true medium duty 450/4500+ truck that are much, much more expensive (even in the used market).

adam728 02-04-2015 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie (Post 466693)
Why don't you drive a truck?

I do. Maybe I'm biased because I live in farm country and trucks get used around here. We noticed long ago when visiting family in bigger population areas (Kalamazoo, Chicago) that the truck/car ratio is far smaller, and many trucks there are more Denali than truck (look-at-me status symbol, as you elude to). But here a truck is a truck, something you quite often need. Mine hauls and plows regularly. Had a fun time this morning busting out a drive this morning that's been unopened all winter. Oh, and it's 2wd. That extra 1100 lbs in the bed helps. I'd like a few hundred more (had 2400 lbs in it, 275 gal water tote, but visibility sucked, and it took up all usable bed space).


Quote:

Originally Posted by kir_kenix (Post 466698)
Would love to see another 750-1000lb gvw added to the current crop of 250/2500-350/3500 series trucks. That would mean many of us could avoid getting into a true medium duty 450/4500+ truck that are much, much more expensive (even in the used market).

No doubt. I was impressed that my truck (92 C2500) touted something like 3,320 lb payload capacity. With all the weight they kept adding on trucks it took quite a while for 3/4 tons to get back to that level again (which they did by increasing GVWR, not reducing curb weight). I know at one point a few years back you could option out an F150 to weigh so much that payload (including passengers) was only around 900 lbs!

kir_kenix 02-04-2015 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam728 (Post 466708)

No doubt. I was impressed that my truck (92 C2500) touted something like 3,320 lb payload capacity. With all the weight they kept adding on trucks it took quite a while for 3/4 tons to get back to that level again (which they did by increasing GVWR, not reducing curb weight). I know at one point a few years back you could option out an F150 to weigh so much that payload (including passengers) was only around 900 lbs!

Good call Adam728, I didn't word that right. GVWR wouldn't necessarily need to be increased if the vehicle weighed that much less to begin with.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 02-06-2015 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam728 (Post 466708)
I know at one point a few years back you could option out an F150 to weigh so much that payload (including passengers) was only around 900 lbs!

:eek:
It's less than the payload of some Asian microvans...


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