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JatMat 09-04-2011 01:49 PM

Retired, broke and have gas guzzler Nissan truck
 
New here, looking for ways to get more mileage out of a tank of gas than now, getting around 12 to 14, I know something is wrong, changed plugs and filters, not much different. Will have to wait until next SS check to even think of a scan gauge. I have been reading some first, seems if I should check vacuum lines first then perhaps O2 sensors. What else, any ideas? Truck is driven on short drives, city driving and I do not push it, seems to lack power climbing hills, 4 cyl 1996 short bed pickup. What is next please?
Thank You,
Jim
BTW: Nice forum and I do want to participate and perhaps you vets will be easy on an old guy that use to have the money to have some one else to do his repairs.

SoobieOut 09-04-2011 03:25 PM

Welcome JatMat.

I would start with the tire pressure, go to the maximum listed on the tire.

Try coasting down a hill in neutral, without apply the brakes. If is slows or stays steady there could be a brake shoe/pad dragging or a bad wheel bearing.

Is the a check engine light on? Some of the Auto parts places near me offer to check your engine codes for free.

Just a few low cost suggestions, maybe others on Ecomodder will have more.

Here's a link to the EPA site, shows 19 MPG combined city and highway for your truck. You can do better.Fuel Economy of the 1996 Nissan Truck 2WD

Ryland 09-04-2011 03:43 PM

Look for things that stand out first of course, like uneven tire wear, check engine light, odd sounds.
If I've come to a stop without having to use my brakes hard I'll check to see if the brakes are warmer on one side the the other, you can also check to see if you have a wheel bearing that is getting hot or a tire that is getting hotter then the rest.
I was going to suggest that if you don't need a truck that you might sell it and get a car that can tow a small trailer for those times that you need to haul cargo, but your truck is not worth a whole lot so the pay back would take a while, altho it still might be worth thinking about, or a better deal for you might be to find someone who you already know who needs a truck who has a car that gets decent gas mileage that would be willing to do an even trade.

slowmover 09-04-2011 03:51 PM

Broke is one thing, idiot another. Even jesting it isn't deserved when so many find themselves in the same boat. Change it, will ya? And if you do I entreat the moderator to delete this post. Looking for the way out is the right thing. The examples and experiences of others are always valuable to me, as they are to you. I might, or my friends/family might call me a less-than, but they'll do it within arms reach . . . .


Vacuum lines are an excellent and cheaply-repaired source of problems. The local library may well have the vacuum schematic that will be of aid (even if the truck already has one). Factory lines are more expensive and probably better. But with a set of calculations of the length needed of various diameters one can arrange to buy in bulk. Or just ask around and splice chit together.

In the meantime, remove and clean the batt, starter and other primary charging system cable ends. Have the batt tested free at a parts store (remove to take inside; check first). Low electrical can cause problem-multiplication. Alternator too if you're up to it.

And make you a list or two of tools needed for auto work. The pawn shops always have a selection. Pay close attention to wrench ends, etc.

Sears

Welcome, and all the best

.

Weather Spotter 09-04-2011 04:55 PM

a grill block is a cheep and effective mod. after that take a look through the wiki for more ideas.

California98Civic 09-05-2011 01:52 AM

Everything slowmover says... also... make yourself a tonneau cover, even to cover just the back half of the bed. It will benefit aero significantly. Fully inflate tires (I over inflate mine by 6-9 psi). Search "lawn edging airdam" on this forum. It works. I run one. Whenever possible drive in daylight when you don't need lights and the air is warmer. Study the hypermile techniques, espeically "driving with load" (DwL), "pulse and glide" (P&G), and "engine off coasting" (EOC). And if you have a tach and a vacuum gauge handy, you might avoid the scangauge for now, but also the UltraGauge is much cheaper and just as good, I think.

Good luck! Welcome! Start a fuel log here at ecomodder, recording what you pay for gas, you might find it encouraging to see savings pile-up.

skyl4rk 09-05-2011 09:02 AM

First get the mechanical problems out of the way.

Then get a piece of plywood, and stretch it from the top of the cab to the end of the tailgate, with the tailgate down. You may have to screw two pieces of plywood together to get it long enough. You will probably have to make a frame underneath the plywood. Arch the plywood up in the middle just a little bit to make a nice aerodynamic curve. Fill in the sides with plywood or foam or whatever you have.

JatMat 09-05-2011 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 259554)
Broke is one thing, idiot another. Even jesting it isn't deserved when so many find themselves in the same boat. Change it, will ya? And if you do I entreat the moderator to delete this post. Looking for the way out is the right thing. The examples and experiences of others are always valuable to me, as they are to you. I might, or my friends/family might call me a less-than, but they'll do it within arms reach . . . .


Vacuum lines are an excellent and cheaply-repaired source of problems. (Thanks Jim)The local library may well have the vacuum schematic that will be of aid (even if the truck already has one). Factory lines are more expensive and probably better. But with a set of calculations of the length needed of various diameters one can arrange to buy in bulk. Or just ask around and splice chit together.

In the meantime, remove and clean the batt, starter and other primary charging system cable ends. Have the batt tested free at a parts store (remove to take inside; check first). Low electrical can cause problem-multiplication. Alternator too if you're up to it.

And make you a list or two of tools needed for auto work. The pawn shops always have a selection. Pay close attention to wrench ends, etc.



Welcome, and all the best

.

I have the complete factory service manual on disk, about 1000 pages. All electrical has been checked out and cleaned all connections, Alternator charging fine. I have all the tools needed for any repair. Thanks for your suggestions, I am still listening and learning.

JatMat 09-05-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyl4rk (Post 259626)
First get the mechanical problems out of the way.

Now your talking my goals. What to check next?

JRMichler 09-05-2011 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JatMat (Post 259532)
What else, any ideas? Truck is driven on short drives, city driving and I do not push it, seems to lack power climbing hills, 4 cyl 1996 short bed pickup. What is next please?

Did it used to get better mileage and power? If so, check compression and timing chain. If not, how short are your short trips?

JatMat 09-05-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMichler (Post 259635)
Did it used to get better mileage and power? If so, check compression and timing chain. If not, how short are your short trips?

Just received the truck as a gift from my daughter, have NO idea of prior history or maintenance. I do know it was a delivery truck for her business. 15 miles or less round trip is my use.

JRMichler 09-05-2011 12:10 PM

Sounds like it's time to get serious. Two areas - the driver (known here as the nut holding the steering wheel) and the vehicle.

VEHICLE
Check for something dragging. You should be able to push it by hand on a level smooth surface. If not, check everything that rotates, especially brakes. You have three separate brake systems - front wheels, rear wheels, and parking brake (connected to the rear wheels). Tire pressure is a biggie.

Check the engine from one end to the other. Timing chain, exhaust restriction, loose things that should be tight.

Transmission - manual or automatic? If automatic, is the torque converter working correctly and is it shifting correctly?

DRIVER
Are you timing traffic lights? Minimizing idling? Practicing what we call DWB - Driving Without Brakes? Studied the Master List of 65+ Mods in Ecomodding Central? Driving techniques can improve mileage by as much as 100%.

Good luck and keep trying.
Jim

JatMat 09-05-2011 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMichler (Post 259649)
Sounds like it's time to get serious. Two areas - the driver (known here as the nut holding the steering wheel) and the vehicle.

VEHICLE
Check for something dragging. You should be able to push it by hand on a level smooth surface. If not, check everything that rotates, especially brakes. You have three separate brake systems - front wheels, rear wheels, and parking brake (connected to the rear wheels). Checking today Tire pressure is a biggie. And going up today.

Check the engine from one end to the other. Timing chain, exhaust restriction, loose things that should be tight.

Transmission - manual or automatic? If automatic, is the torque converter working correctly and is it shifting correctly? Will have that checked today.

DRIVER
Are you timing traffic lights? Yes Minimizing idling? Never use a drive through. Practicing what we call DWB - Driving Without Brakes? Yes, since age 17. I was taught that way. Studied the Master List of 65+ Mods in Ecomodding Central? Yes Driving techniques can improve mileage by as much as 100%.

Good luck and keep trying. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Jim

Thank You says
The nut behind the wheel
:D

Ryland 09-05-2011 01:52 PM

One other thing to try is to make sure you are putting gasoline in it, not 10% ethanol, most people I talk to only see a 15% or so drop in their mileage with ethanol in the gasoline but I've talked to some people who see a much greater drop.

When you changed the spark plugs, how did they look? where they all colored the same on the tip? if you are driving short trips like it sounds like and never hauling a load you might try the next hotter plug.
It might also be time for new transmission fluid, after 15 years and fluids start to cook down and get thicker.

JatMat 09-05-2011 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryland (Post 259657)
One other thing to try is to make sure you are putting gasoline in it, not 10% ethanol, most people I talk to only see a 15% or so drop in their mileage with ethanol in the gasoline but I've talked to some people who see a much greater drop. No choices around here, all have 10% corn added. :(

When you changed the spark plugs, how did they look? where they all colored the same on the tip? Yes, looked all the same, if you are driving short trips like it sounds like and never hauling a load you might try the next hotter plug. Will check for hotter plug, even if these are new.
It might also be time for new transmission fluid, after 15 years and fluids start to cook down and get thicker.Have the 9 quarts and new filter ready to change, just not the courage yet. :o


Thanks for your feedback,:thumbup: any suggestions on overcoming the corn additive with other cost effective additives?

JRMichler 09-05-2011 04:01 PM

One more question: Based on your experience, routes, and driving habits, what mileage would you expect for this vehicle?

Frank Lee 09-05-2011 05:34 PM

Oh for god's sake, the ethanol thing again?!? :rolleyes:

If I had that truck I would get more than 12-14 out of it feeding it 100% E85- hell, I get more than that feeding a V8 F150 E85, SO THAT AIN'T IT.

slowmover 09-05-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 259687)
Oh for god's sake, the ethanol thing again?!? :rolleyes:

If I had that truck I would get more than 12-14 out of it feeding it 100% E85- hell, I get more than that feeding a V8 F150 E85, SO THAT AIN'T IT.

That's because you're pushing it with one of your other four cars.

As to fuel: start a logbook. Buy the same fuel consistently down to the same station, same time of day, same fuel pump. Fill to first click-off. Start a fuel log on this site for your truck.

This is a post where I set up a record book for my diesel truck. Book, pen, solar calculator in glovebox.

Also, look at the cost of ownerhip & operation. Two different things, just as with maintenance and repairs. AAA has a .pdf online to help understand the calculations, as well as EDMUNDS ("True Cost of . . . ").
Taxes, insurance, maintenance, repairs, inspections, etc. Then fuel.

At the age of that truck depreciation has bottomed out. The dollar value of the truck will rise slightly. This is offset by age-related repairs and that the chain stores/dealers start to drop stuff from the system with 15-year old vehicles.

I'd be making lists of what to replace and when, doing the homework before problems arise. Then consult list and seller.

.

JRMichler 09-05-2011 06:22 PM

Frank is right, it ain't ethanol. When they went to 10% ethanol around here, I did not see a mileage change. I'm sure that I would have seen a 3% change. My truck is, and has been, running 10% ethanol.

Ryland 09-05-2011 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMichler (Post 259697)
Frank is right, it ain't ethanol. When they went to 10% ethanol around here, I did not see a mileage change. I'm sure that I would have seen a 3% change. My truck is, and has been, running 10% ethanol.

I suggested it because I see a drop in my mileage if I use E10 as do my parents, the two people I work for also avoid it in their work trucks because they have said they have seen mileage drops as much at 20%, one of them has a very stable route and uses his truck very lightly, so I think it's worth checking to see if you can find premium that doesn't have ethanol and see if it helps, if it doesn't help you are out and extra $.10 a gallon? I know you said you were on a tight budget, but think about it anyway.

Frank Lee 09-05-2011 09:24 PM

Do people know the difference between E10 and E85??? One can expect a 20% fe drop on strong blends or 100% E85, but NOWHERE NEAR that with E10, emphasis on nowhere.

Thought experiment: OK lets go nuts and say if he put ethanol free gas in, it improves 20%. Well that means his lil 4 banger mini truck is getting 14-17, which still sucks so bad we know something else is wrong. It should be pushing 30 on the highway and well over 20 in town.

JatMat 09-06-2011 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMichler (Post 259664)
One more question: Based on your experience, routes, and driving habits, what mileage would you expect for this vehicle?

Don't know about this vehicle, just got it three tanks ago. But, comparing apples to oranges. My 2003 Mercedes C-240 (4-matic) gets 20-22 in town and 29 hwy if that helps with my driving habits. I have 129,000 miles on it with normal tire pressure (32) and no mods what so ever. I just would have thought I would get more out of this little 4 cylinder Nissan truck.

JRMichler 09-07-2011 02:20 PM

Yeah, I would also expect a small truck to get similar mileage to the Mercedes. Here's a few things that will kill mileage 30 or 40%:

1) Ignition timing retarded about 10 degrees. I don't know how this could happen with a computer controlled engine.

2) Fuel mixture always on full power enrichment. I don't know how this could happen with a computer controlled engine - maybe a WOT throttle switch failure?

3) A really bad burned exhaust valve. A compression test will diagnose this.

4) A seriously dragging brake. You would feel the heat radiating just standing near it.

5) (Maybe) Camshaft out of time - worn chain (does your truck have a timing chain or a timing belt?) or belt/chain jumped a tooth or two.

6) (Maybe) Worn lobe or two on the camshaft. This happened to me years ago. I know it will reduce power, I don't know if it kills gas mileage.

7) Something I haven't thought of.

euromodder 09-07-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JatMat (Post 259639)
Just received the truck as a gift from my daughter, have NO idea of prior history or maintenance. I do know it was a delivery truck for her business. 15 miles or less round trip is my use.

Can't you get her to give something more fuel efficient ? ;)

Seriously, if you don't absolutely need a truck for what you do, sell it on or trade it in and get something that uses half or 1/3rd the fuel.

Being broke and driving a gas guzzler will only make things worse.
I'd spend the money on fixing a more worthwhile ride.

JatMat 09-07-2011 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 259985)
Can't you get her to give something more fuel efficient ? ;) Beggars can't be choosers.

Seriously, if you don't absolutely need a truck for what you do, sell it on or trade it in and get something that uses half or 1/3rd the fuel. I do enjoy working on it, and the fuel problem is as much a challenge as it is a problem. I will beat it somehow.

Being broke and driving a gas guzzler will only make things worse.
I'd spend the money on fixing a more worthwhile ride. The Mercedes is a fine ride, thinking about bumping up the tire pressure to help with that mileage. Good forum here and lots of good suggestions.



Thanks for your suggestions,
Jim

user removed 09-07-2011 04:38 PM

Drive the Mercedes.

The 96 Nissan is a D21 Hardbody with their 2.4 liter engine. I read all the posts here and I think it is an automatic, since it was not confirmed to be a manual.

Typical problems are mass air flow sensor and oxygen sensor, both of which can be an issue but not bad enough to light off the CEL. I do think it is OBD2 so you can get it scanned for free at Advance Auto Parts.

Twin cam port injected engine, same as the Altima of the same era which does about 32 highway, so your mileage is pitiful. If it was running right I would expect mid 20s highway and about 20-22 city seriously depending on your trip length stops and traffic congestion.

Just had a thought, check your temp gauge, those year Nissan's are notorious for bad thermostats. They go bad wide open so the engine never warms up and your temp gauge will probably barely get off the cold mark.

THAT SINGLE PROBLEM MAY BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU SHOULD GET FIXED IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It should warm up very quickly, in less than 1.5 miles if it has a factory thermostat that is working properly. If I were a betting man I would put my money on a bad thermostat as your problem right now and it's easy to replace and fairly inexpensive.

I WOULD USE OEM NISSAN THERMOSTAT! I have had much experience with aftermarket and almost universally they will not work as fast and as well as OEM.

regards
Mech

user removed 09-07-2011 04:39 PM

Get a job driving a school bus for some cash and insurance.

regards
Mech

Diesel_Dave 09-07-2011 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 259716)
Do people know the difference between E10 and E85???

I once was at a talk by a state legislator. During the talk, several times the legislator confused the fact that E10 was 10% ethanol (they thought it was 90% ethanol). And this legislator was the chair of the state alternative energy committee! In Indiana (one of the largest ethanol producing states)!:eek:

And we wonder why our politicians can't come up with a coherent energy policy!

JatMat 09-07-2011 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 259991)
Drive the Mercedes. I do and love it, but I am going to get even that mileage up.

The 96 Nissan is a D21 Hardbody with their 2.4 liter engine. I read all the posts here and I think it is an automatic. It is ,Since it was not confirmed to be a manual.

Typical problems are mass air flow sensor and oxygen sensor, both of which can be an issue but not bad enough to light off the CEL. I do think it is OBD2 so you can get it scanned for free at Advance Auto Parts. I have an OBD2 scanner that reports NO codes.

Twin cam port injected engine, same as the Altima of the same era which does about 32 highway, so your mileage is pitiful. If it was running right I would expect mid 20s highway and about 20-22 city seriously depending on your trip length stops and traffic congestion.

Just had a thought, check your temp gauge, those year Nissan's are notorious for bad thermostats. They go bad wide open so the engine never warms up and your temp gauge will probably barely get off the cold mark. It never gets a quarter of the way up on the H/C gauge.

THAT SINGLE PROBLEM MAY BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU SHOULD GET FIXED IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to go, Nissan thermostat is on its way.

It should warm up very quickly, in less than 1.5 miles if it has a factory thermostat that is working properly. If I were a betting man I would put my money on a bad thermostat as your problem right now and it's easy to replace and fairly inexpensive.

I WOULD USE OEM NISSAN THERMOSTAT! I have had much experience with aftermarket and almost universally they will not work as fast and as well as OEM.

regards
Mech

Thank You so very much, I had not even thought of that, but had noticed that the gauge rarely comes up to mid point.

JatMat 09-07-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 259992)
Get a job driving a school bus for some cash and insurance. I wish I could.

regards
Mech

Right now that is not an option, I am the only care giver for my wife of 47 years that is recovering from breast cancer, radiation and chemo. She is on a lot of meds and I can not risk leaving her alone for long periods, I was once in the yard for 4 hours mowing and weeding, came in and found her on the floor, unable to get up. I worked all my life since age 14 to age 64, lost my business when housing industry crashed, lost nearly 500K of my personal money and all savings. I am use to work, it kills me to be idle, that is why I enjoy working on the truck, it is in garage near den so that I can check on her often.

user removed 09-07-2011 06:48 PM

God be with your wife and I pray for her speedy recovery. The gauge should fairly rapidly get to normal operating temp which is close to halfway, and very steady regardless of operating condition.

Also check to make sure the fan clutch is not seized. You should be able to move the fan with some resistance with the engine not running. When you first start the engine the fan will make a considerable amount of noise for a few seconds then it will get much quieter. This means the clutch is working properly. If you see the temperature rise while operating the truck, say you are pulling a load uphill or something similar, you should hear the fan noise increase as the clutch engages more as the temperature rises.

The clutch is the aluminum hub that the fan is bolted to, and it is also bolted to the water pump. If the clutch has frozen then the fan is being directly driven by the engine and it will make a lot of noise. A normally working clutch fan will never drive the fan higher than 2500 RPM. This is so it will not use more power than necessary for proper cooling.

No (check engine light) codes would be a very strong indication that the thermostat is your main issue.

Prayers for your wifes health and better circumstances for yourself. I am pushing 61 myself.

regards
Mech

JatMat 09-09-2011 10:34 PM

The whole story!
 
I received the truck as a gift from daughter, it was no longer used in her business. The first tank, (someone had punched the trip meter) on the fill up when I calculated the mileage it showed 12.? a mile. On the fill up, I added one ounce of AutoMatic Transmission fluid per gallon. On the second fill up, I had not many more miles on the trip meter so I did not bother to calculate. During the second fill up, I again added the ATF to the tank (Adding the ATF lubicates the top end of the engine and it does work.) My Mercedes went from around 18 to 20-22 in town, hwy went from 24 to 29. Now, I just filled up the truck the third time and decided to recalculate. It ended up 17.94 miles per gal. This time I added some fuel injector cleaner.

Today, I changed the plugs again to a hotter plug, new air filter, new fuel filter and inflated to 40lbs from the 28 that someone had done. Tomorrow, the hotter thermostat (180) will be put in. I am now coasting every chance I get, anxious to see what the difference will be. I do appreciate all the responses that I got and they will be used. Thanks to all for the help.:thumbup:
Jim
I will be back.

BTW: The Mercedes computer notices NOTHING with the ATF in and runs great, I would suggest you at least try it. ONE ounce per gallon that the tank holds, first time, just fill up and put in the ounces that is the capacity of the tank, second time, the amount of the fill. I now only add the ATF on every other tank. Mileage has not dropped back.

Frank Lee 09-09-2011 11:49 PM

The top end doesn't need any lube from fuel. Couple that with knowing that oil in the combustion chamber does only bad things, and I think it's prudent to say simply don't add any stuff to the fuel, at all.

You may think one tank did better than another because of it, but tank-to-tank variations are often quite high due to external factors.

You don't even have a fuel log here for us to look at.

oil pan 4 09-10-2011 02:53 PM

Hotter plugs, hotter thermostat and oil up in the combustion chamber are not the way you want to go.
Zinc - Phosphorus anti wear additives and calcium based detergent in the ATF will clog the catalytic converter.
Zinc dithiophosphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JatMat 09-10-2011 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 260329)
The top end doesn't need any lube from fuel. Couple that with knowing that oil in the combustion chamber does only bad things, and I think it's prudent to say simply don't add any stuff to the fuel, at all.

You may think one tank did better than another because of it, but tank-to-tank variations are often quite high due to external factors.

You don't even have a fuel log here for us to look at.

And I don't plan to. My choice! As for the ATF, don't know why it works, but it does, if you haven't tried it, then you are just guessing. It was a method used by a good farmer of mine running around 20 trucks and tractors around a 5,000 acre farm, he did it and everyone who has tried it around my area swears by it. May do harm to plugs??? I don't know, don't care, if it is giving me 4 to 5 miles per gal better avg. The plug is recommended for my engine, but performs better, so I have been told. The hotter thermostat was recommended to me by a member of this forum for my driving habits. I fill up same station same pump, always has, it is owned by another friend of mine, so I have always shopped there. I am on a lot of forums, don't think I have ever been so criticized by folks who have not tried something. You are entitled to your opinion as I am. Thanks to the one who talked with me via PM and HELPED me as one who had the experience with my vehicle. Thanks for the help, the ones that did and good bye to everyone else. I am outta here.

Frank Lee 09-10-2011 06:38 PM

Anyone care to test oiling their fuel? I'm not gonna carbon up my top end to prove nothing.

slowmover 09-11-2011 12:23 AM

ATF is basically 5W-20 without the carbon combustion additives, and some added compounds not specified for motor oil. There is a nearly decade-old discussion of using ATF outside of design over on BITOG, without the numbers or studies or other to promote its use thusly (other products have a better and verifiable track record).

One is welcome, as always, to do with ones car as one will. And if the "experiment" seems successful, fine. Just that one shouldn't stop there if record-keeping indicates changes not otherwise substantiated.

Hope that JatMat will give himself a break and realize that the "contentiousness" of a viable site for information is not an impediment to its use. Vehicle enthusiast sites with overly specific consensus are of little help in the end. Records are just a tool, for example, but enable others to peer over ones shoulder in consultation on the problem.

Sounds like the repairs are underway, and a plan is in view for the immediate future.

.

Frank Lee 09-11-2011 12:36 AM

Sheet, I wasn't even being contentious. Smokey Yunick, engine development legend, told me in his book that oil in the chambers is bad. That I believe, especially after de-coking 2 strokers and oil burning 4 strokers.

It is a known fact among EMers that tank-to-tank fe calcs WILL show variations large enough to overcome the effects of "mods".

Many reputable sources say just about all additives are unnecessary. I didn't just make it up- I just put it out there "frankly".

slowmover 09-11-2011 01:23 PM

All additives would be unnecessary if fuel quality were consistent. And this is decidedly not so. What additive is another thread.

As to "contentious" don't be so prickly, as the whole of thread may be seen that way (to be generous to the OP's current reaction).


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