Reviving a 2000 Honda Insight "beater"
 

[Disclaimer]This is long, as it spans about 2 months of odd hours of working on it and the ramblings of a idiot[/Disclaimer]

In Jan of 08 I found a 2000 Honda Insight in a junk yard. For a total of $2000 bucks I brought my new "beater" home in hopes of getting it back up and running to replace my current DD. Driving my Heep around is fun as hell, but $60 a week on gas gets old fast. Some pictures below as I got it after the tow truck dropped it off (I need to find a diesel tow rig like this.....)

http://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0253.jpg
http://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0255.jpg
http://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0249.jpg
http://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0254.jpg

Its got the following
230k on the clock
5 speed
Automatic climate control w/Air Conditioning
Power everything
6 Disc CD Changer
And a fish tank
http://www.astralfoundry.com/linkgfx.../2IMG_0257.jpg
Along with a bunch of broken stuff

The current list of broken items
Primary Ground Wires (Fixed)
LAF Sensor (Fixed)
Rear Hatch Struts (Fixed)
Drivers side quarter panel window (fixed)
Windshield (Fixed)
Clutch Slave (Fixed)
Tranny (Not Broken)
HV Battery Pack (Hasn't been flogged enough to tell)
Front Underbelly panels (Have replacements)
Hood (Latches now, just looks off)
Motor Mount (Seems fixed)

Maintenance to do
Coolant (Didn't need to do it)
Tranny Fluid (Done)
Brakes(I can stop)
Tires

Story so far,
Initially when I first checked it out at the yard, the car would start with a jump, run, and moving on its own power. So I figured sweet, I got it made, probably nothing major wrong with it. Which was sorta right. My dive into Honda automotive tech started after the tow truck dropped it off.

When it was dropped off at my house, the tow truck driver had to place it in an odd spot due to the steepness of my drive way. I figured it didn't matter where he left it, since it ran I could easily move it. Which was wrong. Tried to fire it up no lights, no nothing. Recharged the 12v battery, which if you have never owned a civic is a very small little thing, got lights this time but no start. It would spin but it wouldn't fire. Since the 144v battery pack was depleted since the car was sitting for 4 months, it would only start using the starter. Now my first car was a 95 Dodge Caravan, and my first car I bought was my Jeep. Coming from a Dodge/Jeep background, bigger is always better, and if the part doesn't fit you aren't using a big enough sledge hammer. So I figured the battery was just too tiny to start the thing so I hooked the Jeep up to it. The Heep runs a 980 CCA Red Top that has yet not to start something, so with the two of them jumpered up I started the Insight and it ran just fine. Thinking I was in business, I disconnected the Jeep. 30 seconds later the Insight stalled and died. As a man of science, I did it again, same results. Now I figure I was screwed. I had an electrical problem. This was a Honda, a Hybrid and has way more wiring and gizmos then my simple Jeep. I eventually found out that the only way to keep it from stalling out was that once it was started to stick a wooden pole to keep the RPMs up and using 3 feet to manipulate the clutch, brake and throttle to get it moving under power on its own. That was fun.

With some help from the members of GS, predominately WazabiOwner, amoung other things, I was able to determine that my starting and running issues was due to the poor design of the factory grounds. A bit of welding wire, some terminal ends and some anti corrosion gunk, I had Rommie starting and running by herself. Once I had her going I was able to recharge the 144v battery pack. Now the car starts up without using the starter. Its kinda cool really. You hit the key and it just whirls to life.

Now that it "lives" I had to take it for a spin. Initial impressions at the time were the clutch lacks feedback, the shifter is stiff as hell and doesn't really want to go into first all that much, when assist kicks in the car initially vibrates then smooths out sorta, its slow, and feels gutless. Granted I'm going from a 4.0L six bellowing squirrels hammering out 250 ft-lbs of torque to a 1.0L three screaming gerbils making something like 70 ft-lbs. BUT the driving experience is as unique as tooling around in the Jeep. You feel like you are driving a car of the future with the Insight, even though its 8 years old.

A fair amount of time was spent draining the fish tank, drying out the inside, cleaning up some of the broken class and vacuuming out all the hair left over from the PO.

A quick light check showed that both my front parking lights were blown. A $1 later and a set of 168 bulbs fixed that problem.

An oil change showed that the PO didn't own a metric socket. The drain plug had been rounded off. Some vice grips and a trip to the hardware store fixed that problem nicely. 2.5 quarts of 0w-20 and an oil filter that is half the size of a soda can gave Rommie some fresh blood. Peering through the valve cover showed some very clean internals for an engine with 230k. Runs very quietly and easily revs up to 5000 rpm without any problems.

The gas struts that hold up the rear hatch were shot. I had been using a big old broom stick to hold it up but replacement struts are so much nicer. The old ones were so bad you could make them compress by just looking at them.

Rear tires are bald, but OEM size and brand. Fronts or something random and more or less new. Downside is they are big enough that the speed reads 10% too slow.

Hood wasn't latching properly due to the front rad support being bent upwards. A wooden block, and a 3lb hammer has worked out most of the kinks. Its still not perfect but I think its in range of what it should be.

Slowly things are coming together. I'm hoping over Spring Break and I can either everything squared away or atleast know what exactly is left to be patched up.

What I've got left to do
Change the transmission fluid as soon as I can get the fill plug off (Done)
Check the clutch hydraulics. Clutch fluid is all dark and black. Either the fluid is ancient or some seal is gone. (Broken)
Figure out if the hard shift is due to the linkage, clutch, or the tranny. (Slave)
Determine if the LAF is really fried or just so dirty the computer thinks its fried.(Done)
Replace the busted window (fixed)
Get the right sized tires (Blah
Check to see if the brakes need servicing (e-brake isn't happy)
Adjust the rear drums (As above)
See if I can get the seats back to their original color (blah they stopped smelling)
Reinstall the front belly pans (need bolts)
Find hardware to reinstall the front belly pans
Replace the spark plugs (All B head) (Got em need to install em)
Replace the coolant and thermostat (didn't need to)
Clean the TB (Maybe)
See if the AC still works (Cold)
Get the dent pulled (Blah)
And whatever else I'm forgetting

Finally get it inspected and registered to be used again :thumbup:

Hey, Red! Welcome.

This is an amazing thread. A "beater" Insight = insane jealousy on my part. What a project car!

Thats an amazing find for $2000. Good luck cleaning it up.

Wow, amazing find. Honestly if I came across a cheap insight shell, I'd gut out the batteries/IMA and attempt to put a regular old SOHC Honda 4-cylinder in its place. It would probably end up getting the same or better mileage.

Better than the car that the SOHC Honda 4-cylinder was in, but not better than the Insight power train.
If anyone is gutting an Insight, let me know, as I would be interested in the IMA components.

Your thoroughness in repairing the car will yield many miles of 60-90 MPG fun.

I got my silver "flooded Insight" for about the same money, and fortunately it only needed a few things to get it running.

I admire your persistence, and attention to detail.;)

Welcome to the community. Awesome thread!

Yeah, would a z1 fit the bay of an insight without tremendous fabrication?
That would be one sweet ride.

Awesome :) And welcome to the dark side... I mean forum :p

Be sure to document document document everything with pictures :)

:P Yep its my "beater" adhering to a loose definition of the term.

Stubborn to a fault. Thanks all. I've been taking pictures as I go, just haven't had time to clean them up and post them online. Got a weeks worth of tests next week so I've been stretched for time lately. But so far its been fun.

From my understanding the engine of the Insight weighs around 120lbs and the battery pack around 50lbs or so, so the IMA drivetrain excluding the tranny would be around 170lbs give or take. Not sure on the weight of a z1 engine but you would be better off in gasoline power but not in the weight department with such a swap. Engine bay room would be tight though with a 4 banger instead of the 3. The electric motor is fairly thin, I want to say its housing is about 2" wide. I think you could probably offset the tranny some more to the drivers side, but assuming you kept everything mounted the way it is, there wouldn't be room or it would be a really tight fit to get everything in there.

Though if you could give me the length of a z1 + tranny I could give you a definite yes or no.

I got a ride in an Insight the first year they came out, but I've yet to drive one. It's one of my goals this year. A guy in the EV association in Ottawa has one, so maybe that's my in.

I'd put it on the same level as driving a top-less Jeep. You have to do it atleast once in your life.

Random factoid for any TJ or YJ owners looking at this. The front Al radiator pan for the Insight has mounting holes more or less the exact width as our frame rails. Was bored of doing Discrete Math, so I found out that one could mount it to the front frame snubbers, lie it against the steering box and you'd have a front air dam angled back around 35-40 degrees that would covers almost all of your steering linkage. Before I mount them to Rommie I think I'm going to experiment with them first on the Heep.

Well I know of some drag racing types who put a K20 in one...wait it was a tube-frame redux. :P

Honestly I'm shocked about the battery pack being so light... I'm rethinking the weight savings now.

You would need to reverse the z1, since the transmission is on the drivers side on the insight. the mounts would likely all need to be totally fabricated, since the mounts are not in typical places on the insight.

Wow - what a find.
And it looks like you're doing a fine and thorough job straightening out the car.
Good luck with it!

Welcome + ...
 

Hey Red, welcome to EM!

What a great find -- looks like a little TLC and off it goes.

I have to commend you for looking for a daily driver outside of the TJ. I will admit that a solid Jeep is good for purpose driven off-roading, and to maintain that hobby, but expensive as a DD.

Have fun with both vehicles, and again Welcome. Here, you'll find some Jeep members that "understand", so to speak :)

Best FE to ya! :thumbup:

RH77/Rick

Sweet deal! :thumbup:
I have a 2001 Insight. I love it.
Yes it's fairly gutless,:turtle: that's why it gets such good mileage.
Fix it up and enjoy.
Check with Honda for any recalls. You might get some free parts.:D
john:):)

Day 1 of Spring Break, pulled the LAF Sensor. Looked like this
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0331.jpg
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0332.jpg

I don't see anything remotely serviceable...Save for the carbon dust on the end, I don't see any real fouling or anything that looks like it could have killed the sensor. Old age I guess did it in. Going to dig out my ElmScan tmw and hook it up to see if the 02 is doing anything at all. Else time to call up Majestic Honda again.

Amazingly enough I get wireless outside.....
So I hooked up my ElmScan got the following data out of it
S1B1 = 1.085v no matter what
S2B1 = 0.835v @ idle then drops as the RPMs Increase 0.055 @2k+

How does that compare to what the manual says on the subject? You might just need a new one, na?

Book says death. The sensor should show some voltage change once warmed up. Post cat is operating within range. Pre is dead in the water.

Spent most of the morning tearing apart my dad's Camry. The rod bearings on #1 & #6 have gone to hell and they have opened up the other 4. That car is a royal pain in the neck to work on.

More or less finished replacing the broken quarter panel window today. Cutting out the old sealant was work to say the least. I will be posting up a write up for it sometime tomorrow, but if you can fork for it, pay someone to do it.

Drained the tranny as well. Fluid was black, no metal specs of any kind. Refilled with Redline MTL 1.6ish quarts.

Tomorrow I am going to clean out the throttle body, and glue in the window. Need to call around and get some new tires as well.

This is one of my favourite threads. Enjoying the progress/updates...

Replacing a quarter window
 

Usually stuff.
I am by no means a body man or a glass expert. Everything done here is based off my own experience of the process using what I had on hand. As always seek the help of a professional if needed. Some of the techniques and chemicals used are hazardous to your health and you could kill yourself. Always be careful and use the proper safety equipment. I am not responsible for anything you do by following this.

That aside, replacing your quarter panel window on an Insight isn't a big deal. It can be easily done in your driveway using common hand tools. The most difficult part is cutting out the old glue and pumping in the new. The rest is cake.

Heres what you need. All prices listed are what I paid for at the time.

1x Quarter Panel Window (PN# 73561-S3Y-003) $53.63, Majestic
1x Quarter Panel Garnish (PN# 738690-S3Y-003) $6.82, Majestic
2x Quarter Panel Window Clip (PN# 91502-S3Y-003) $5.62, Majestic
1x Quarter Panel Window Dam (PN# 73526-S3Y-000) $11.95, Majestic
1x Sharp strong knife
1x 3M Window Weld $14.99, Autozone
1x Big suction cup. I used the one from my GPS and it did fine
1x Caulking Gun

Grand total spent: $93.01

Handy to have
Heat Gun, mine was 300watts
Carpet Cutter

Far as I know, Rommie found her way into the junk yard by the means of a thief recovered. Her driver sides quarter window was smashed in to gain access I think.
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0334.jpg
So most of the glass had already been removed for me. What was left was the glass still glued to the frame. I'll be starting from here.

Heres what you want to do. Use your knife to knock out enough glass to get to the window sealant. In the above pic, you can see where I started the process in the top left corner. Once you have an area cleared you want to try to get your knife under the sealant to start the removal process. Your objective is to cut as much of the old sealant off as possible. The closer you can get your knife to the frame the better off you'll be in the long run. Don't go the easy path and do a shallow cut, you'll regret it later on.

There is a black plastic trim piece located right by the door jam. It attaches to the window via some clips. Just break it off by any means possible. You will be replacing it anyway.

Once you get your knife under the sealant here is where the fun starts. You now need to saw off the old sealant. It is a very slow and tedious process. Start by the door first since that area is fairly easy to work with and you'll see some obvious progress. Once you get to the curve in the rear is where you'll start hating life. But press on and you'll eventually get it all off. Do this on a warm day, the old sealant loosens up a bit. Else use the heat gun to warm up your knife some to help slice through. The carpet knife is handy on the straight parts as you can put a lot of force on it.

As you are cutting through the sealant by the door jam, you'll come across two clips that hold the window to the frame. You will need to remove them. It is very difficult to save them as they become brittle over time.

After about 2 hrs of grunting and swearing your frame should look something like this.
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0343.jpg
You don't need to remove all the sealant just about 80-90% of it. The new sealant can adhere to the old. Be sure to clean up and paint over any damage you may have done. I covered mine with some clear coat I had lying around. Most just use black primer. You just want to prevent any corrosion from occurring.

At this point the major work has been completed. Now on to the easier stuff. Your new window should look something like this
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0340.jpg
You'll want to take some rubbing alcohol or something and clean the painted edges. If you have it, prep the surface with a glass primer. I didn't and it doesn't seem to have made a difference.

Take your new plastic garnish and clip it on to the window. It really goes only one way and on one said so its hard to mess up.
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0345.jpg
Align the top edge with the top of the glass as shown below
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0347.jpg

Take your rubber dam and start at the top of the window and work your way around. The dam has its own adhesive strip on it. Simply pull off the strip and stick it to the edge of the glass. Its a strong glue and doesn't really like to be replaced, so work slowly and carefully, making sure its right the first time. You should position the dam like so. The stepped area should be pointing towards the side of the glass that will face the inside of the car
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0352.jpg
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0353.jpg
Bottom meeting the garnish
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0355.jpg
End result
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0356.jpg

There are two rectangular slots on the plastic garnish piece. Into those two slots go the retention clips. They are blue, and come with very very sticky double sided tape. Do your best to center them inside their boxes.
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0359.jpg
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0360.jpg

Take your sealant
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0344.jpg
and squeeze out nice fat beat on top of the old sealant. Just follow the path of the original. You want a bead somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2". Bigger won't hurt here. It'll just make a mess. I used a 1/4" and it seems fine so far. This stuff is thick, gooey and doesn't want to come out of the tube, even when warm. Your arms will get a work out pumping it out. Once you get a bead all around, pop your new window in. Make sure the clips engage and apply even pressure all around. The adhesive should be able to hold the window on its own. If anything feels squishy, it'll harden up once the adhesive drys.

Assuming all goes well you should now have the following
http://astralfoundry.com/linkgfx/insight/IMG_0361.jpg
Not bad :thumbup:

Now just leave it alone for a day or two, make sure your windows are cracked so there is no pressure build up. Don't slam anything until it sets completely.

Restored weatherproofing & aerodynamics: 1
ULEV badges: -1 :)

These detailed posts are great. Keep it up!

I know, but I couldn't justify 5 bucks for a sticker. Especially since I could make my own. Been toying with the idea of making a kind of "Type R" sticker for the ecomodder....

I LOVE this thread... keep up the good work :)

Good details on replacing the window. Nice thread too BTW.

Thanks all

24hr update on the window. The squishiness is all gone, feels rock solid now.

Stock the Insight is outfitted with 165/65/14 Bridgestone RE92s. The ultimate LRR tire for the Insight. Tire Rack finally has them back in stock so it looks like I'll be picking up a set soon

I would never have considered restoring an Insight as a beater since the aluminum bodywork and hybrid systems could be really expensive to repair/replace. Hats off to you!

I use the term "beater" to merely describe the condition of it. The Insight is a very technologically advanced piece of hardware. So far I'm not too far into the hole as it were. I had initially budgeted $4000 to be spent towards some kind of gas saver. So far I have spent around $2600 on it, including the purchase price. Besides the battery pack, the only big thing I think I might have to end up replacing is the clutch. Since I discovered today that something in the clutch hydraulics has sprung a leak, the clutch might be fine. I'm hoping that I'll get a chance to pull the slave this weekend and check it out.

In my head here is what I have left to do
Install the new LAF once I get it
Figure out what is making the gurgling sound when I start it up (system needs to be burped I think)
See if the brake pads need to be replaced
Find out what is leaking in the clutch hydraulics
Replace the serpentine belt

So I think the end could be near....

Got the new LAF sensor installed today. Runs much much better and it can almost idle with the AC on! Progress.......

Re: burping the coolant system... My '89 Accord gurgled from day 1. I think I had it for 5 years. Never was able to completely get rid of it.

Maybe it's a Honda thing.

So, stupid question time...

Why exactly was this car in the junkyard? Previous owner scared off by too many "little" things gone bad and perhaps a giant repair estimate from a dealership?

I know a guy who picked up a '94 (I think) Miata in running condition for $500 from a junkyard last year. It was junked because it wouldn't pass emissions testing. The new owner ran it home on the highway at high speed (3 hrs), planning to repair/rebuild the engine himself. He had it e-tested again when he got home and to his utter surprise, it passed. (Lending credence to the "blowing the carbon out" theory?)

The PO probably tested the Miata cold. Ripping through the gears does a good job of lighting off the cat, but since most of the smog places I've been to won't make sure it's warm before they test it, people who try to test colder/older cars can fail, although I have seen a couple exceptions to this.

No clue. According to the guy who was working the yard, most of the Hondas they get come from police recoveries. Considering the busted window, and the body damage it has, its possible someone tried to take it for a joy ride and it was recovered. Then the PO probably did get a repair bill from Honda as to what id get being, a new LAF, battery pack replacement, clutch, body work etc and it was worth getting the car back. So it was sold to the yard.

So This was one of my favorite threads and it has fallen of lately... any new news?? hows the insight treating you???

Burping cooling system:
Depends on car, but the worst ever is the MR2. Front Rad, Rear engine.

On My Accord (long gone) (and on supras) I put the front end up as high as I can get it (ramps + jacks on my slightly sloped driveway) then I use my special Cooling system burping tool, which is a radiator cap with the pressure portion cut out/ removed. Fill it up, Start it/ warm it up, keep the overflow full, turn it off, keep overflow full, replace cap . end of story (excluding BHG's).

Its fine, I've just been busy. Haven't had a chance to do anything else to it. I did burp bit. Sat it on some ramps and opened up its little burp bolt. The only thing I have done is bought stuff for it. I have new spark plugs and I've ordered a new clutch slave/master since the current one has gone to hell.

The last couple of weekends have been spent either studying or trying to fix my dad's Camry. He somehow managed to blow up a spark plug and then trashed the rod bearings. So these past two weekends have been spent pulling that engine out.

Well, your progress and photos on the Insight were interesting. Sorry to hear about the engine on the Camry, but it's sure great you can do the work of pulling it.