ROFL here's a good one
 

I was reading around in the Maxima forum and came across something that I thought ya'll would also find funny.
Quoted from Maxima.org
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlkMax
"I was wondering what are upgrades that we can do better our gas mileage?

Does intake help? "

You want to modify the car to get better gas mileage? Good luck. I'm sure someone here has an effective, cheap way to do better than Nissan and their hundreds of thousands of dollars spent employeeing engineers and technical experts to do things like research and development to maximize the efficiency of their vehicles in light of stricter fleet fuel regulations tougher competitors in the market.

I almost laughed my butt off at the irony of those words. I wonder if this is a common misperception in the general public?

Wonder if they would freak that I coud get the mileage I get with nearly no mods, other than a partial hot air intake

Dittoheads suck.. but that is funny, if you like black humour.

The oil companies seem have the populace trained like a bunch of parrots.

But if you read it without the sarcasm he/she/it is right. I bet it's his rational mind trying to be heard from deep within his trained monkey brain.

You want some real hilarity? Post your results. It'll be a troll feeding frenzy!

Yes, it is. Two examples: My Dad-in-law, who wouldn't believe that I could (or should) do anything to the car to reduce its FC. "The engineers at the factory know the car better than you do." He is still getting used to mods I added last year.
My Grandma, who would not only not believe me (what do I know?), but also not believe the mechanic from the car dealer where she bought her car. "I've been driving cars since before he was born." This was when I reminded her that the both the mechanic, and the car's instruction booklet suggested that the engine be kept in the 2000-2500rpm range, while she claimed that all her life she's stayed above 2500rpm, as was told to do in driver's ed 45 years ago, and that's never caused anything bad to happen.

When I told my Dad about how I was getting 40+ mpg when I first started eco driving he didn't believe I was doing it without doing something that was going to destroy the car.

With the reaction I got from him about that I don't even want to tell him that I'm regularly getting 50 mpg tanks now or that over the past 2 days I've traveled 112 miles using less then 2 gallons of gas.

You know why guys respond like that? Because 90% of "cheap, effective" ways to get better gas mileage are scams sold by con artists. No wonder people are skeptical.

If my limited experience is indicative, in the last decade we lost some pretty
good high MPG drivers, even though they didn't have particularly efficient
cars to work with...

Those that learned to drive during and just after the Great depression...

Like my now a decade gone Old Man.

He knew about aero drag, and explained the value of a Kamm back to us
way back in the '60s. When he retired to South Central Maine, he practiced
"roller coasting," P&G (between 20 and 30 MPH), shut off the ignition at stop
lights, and rolled in neutral with the engine off whenever my Mum wasn't
with him. He put on ~20K miles a year driving around the town as 3rd, 2nd
and 1st Selectman, assessing property, checking on the snow removal
contractors, and delivering the Mail part time, etc.

As he got older, he more frequently used the sand/gravel shoulders
as tell-tales, with the bushes smacking the pax side to tell him he was well
clear of the center of the "rud." What with the slow going and on-and-offing
of the engine it was maddening/exhilarating/worrisome to drive with him.

"Dad! Watch out for that mail box!" :eek:

"Don't you worry. It hasn't moved much since I came this way, oh last
month or so." :rolleyes:

Still, I miss him a lot. I'd give my Prius to ride with him in one of his
clapped out Ford/Chevy/Mercury/whatever wagons again just one more
time...

:(

Rokeby - what a great post about your Old Man. Loved reading it.

Someone should start marketing some aero mod kits. Then they'll realize that one particular kind of mod actually does work...

Pop told me he considered it an accomplishment to land his B17 after a long mission with 100 gallons more fuel than anyone else. Of course, when people are trying to shoot you out of the sky a few gallons of fuel can be the difference between the right and wrong sides of the English Channel.

regards
Mech

"I wonder if this is a common misperception in the general public?" - Unfortunately, yes it is the general idea. Several reasons for it.

First there have been too many get rich quick schemes that sold a bunch of junk that didn't work. That gave anyone that tries a bad reputation to overcome.

Second they do not realize that a car design is a series of compromises and trade-offs. They are never a perfect solution, just reasonably good for what the company thought they could get you to buy and make them the most money.

Third the biggest factor effecting MPG is the nut behind the wheel. If they put the blame on the car company then they don't have to take the blame for driving while not thinking about it.

Fourth most of them are too lazy to even keep good records. Lets face it, someone has to keep very diligent records under very tight controls to be able to see a 4-5% difference made by an aeromod as opposed to the random statistical noise due to weather, passenger load, construction season, gas brands, varied driving routes etc. To ask someone to do A-B-A testing is a bit much, unless he happens to be one of those loony folks that hanks out a sites like this.:D

Speaking of old school hypermilers, My dad also used to EOC, time lights and draft all the time. He was truly frightening to drive with though as he drove his cars into the ground. Tires were worn out only once you actually saw the cords.

As for the "unbelieving"...

The one person who shocked me was Wayne Gerdes, probably the most famous hypermiler. Basjoos posted on a hybrid forum that they could probably get a bunch more MPG's out of their Prii if they aeromodded them. He brushed off the suggestion saying that the Prius was so "slippery" from the factory that you couldn't really improve it much.

.26Cd to .17Cd is almost 35% better. Hmmm. I guess I should just give up.

LOL!

At the risk of wearing out my welcome on this thread, here's a piece I
posted at PRIUSchat a long while back:

My father's idea of the truly hot car was the Hudson Hornet.

Throughout his life, the Old Man never owned any car that was in anyway
remarkable except that for the most part they enclosed a large volume.

The first car he owned was a '54 Plymouth wagon, medium blue.

The second was an early '60's VW Microbus. It was the basic model ,
two-tone white over red, without all the little windows around the top.
40 HP if I remember correctly.

A speedometer, no gas gauge; when the engine sputtered
you flipped a little lever beneath the driver's seat to access a one gal.
reserve. (My mother could never remember which way to flip the lever.
Opposite to the reserve was OFF. Panic ensued.)

After I left home for college he owned a series of nondescript second hand
full/mid-size wagons dictated by living on a fixed retirement income.

To my dad cars were appliances or utensils. He never washed them. He
changed the oil twice as often as recommended. He carried a combo hot-
start/tire pump in the back. He ran the tires until at least one was bald.
He kept his cars until "the wheels fell off," or my mother threw a major
tantrum.

All he asked was that when he turned the key they would start.

I wonder if he would have understood my fascination/obsession with
my Prius.

My Old Man never owned a Hornet, he never had the money.

But he did have a memory, or was it a dream?

I would say it's a silly thing to say, but it's not silly, just ignorant. The mind of the guy that said it isn't open enough to realize that it's possible to get better than an "average" MPG.

Can you put the link up (or PM) it? I'm on Maxima.org and I'd love to read some of the posts and reactions there. If you haven't posted anything about this site or Basjoos then you should.

What irony? :confused:

Manufacturers strive to make what customers will buy. Even though there are many models to choose from, each model still must have broad enough appeal to be worth the investment to build. Most of the time, fuel economy is not a top priority for customers. Mfgs also have to conform to govt regs., some of which influence fe. All manufacturers have known how to build 1L type vehicles for decades but evidently the business cases for making them hadn't been made.

That said, I do fault the mfgs for not being as pro-active re: fe as they could have been.

Someone said that?

^?

Yes, you. Who said that?

From post 1:

How 'bout splitting off funny stories about parents/old folks and their cars to the lounge...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post171939

I've been reading some of your posts, redlion, and noticed you're nearly in my neck of the woods. I live in Harrison but go to Missiouri quite frequently. Small world, huh?

I'll post on the thread I read that on, but i think it was an old thread. i suppose I'll find out.

This is very true. The comment that started this whole thread would be true if you added the caveats "without giving up performance, making the car less crashworthy, less comfortable, or having styling that many people think is fugly." Auto companies could do much better if the marketing focus groups and surveys were filled with hypermilers.

I don't see that he said anything about not being able to get better than average mpg :confused:

my dad drives rigs, last car he liked was a 455 oldsmobile... I let him drive the 87 sube around a parking lot.. shifting it in rpm ranges like a rig. It was a bridge built right before the worlds liers. A boxer CAN do that. "Ricer" is so freakishly far beyond bad opinion only it is holy.

:thumbup:

As far as modding by doubting factory, it takes a real location first. It takes real people with a clean instinct where there is no knowledge as well.. Business retards stay content in thier cults pushing thoughts with money feeding it even more the wrong direction. I doubt everything all the way to 50 tons. For darn bad reasons.. and they ain't mine. :rolleyes:

Also car companies are hesitant to add a feature (no grill in front, boattail, other unconventional features) that might alienate a group of potential customers or that make routine maintenance a little more difficult (removing wheel well skirts to do tire maintenance).

I get this disbelief all of the time, even from Prius owners who can't believe that there's this old non-hybrid car that can beat the mileage of their new high-tech hybrid under most driving conditions.

Sadly most "focus groups" are mad up of people currently buying the product being built so the end result is more of the same or at best very minor variances to reinforce the current buying patterns.

Had this happen as well with a Prius owner.
Felt sort of sorry for the rather deflated Prius owner at the time.

Cheers , Peter.

Frank... That's not what Red Lion said...

" ... the guy that said it ... " => it is referencing what the guy said in the original post. Red Lion is the one saying "the guy" isn't open enough to realize ... it's possible to get better than 'average' MPG...

Hate to see good folks talking past each other...

Seems to me we've given ourselves the task of educating the general public that there is an option besides just accepting the drivel fed us by the car maunfacturers when they say their cars get great fuel economy.

From Spreading the Word, or Help with Ecomodding Discussions:

Thanks for catching it! I wasn't very articulate in how I wrote it, but I'm also not the arguing type. :thumbup:

Great movie! A favorite.

I wasn't really looking to rumble either... I just didn't get it.

Here's to hoping. I put up a new thread talking about comparing MPG figures on the Maxima forum. Maybe we can get a few people talking about it there and start spreading the love of hypermiling.

how do you actually know what you end up with after all the mods? .17 is amazing, wish I could do that to a suzuki sidekick

If you have the rest of the data you could enter values into the fe calculator.

I wish you more luck with that thread than I've had at my local Peugeot forum. Whenever someone starts a fuel consumption thread for my model/engine, the posts claim 7-12 l/100km. I come in with 4.5 l/100km. Noone says anything like "Good going!", or "So what's your secret?". The comments I get are rude at best. Granny-driving and all that. Even though I stress that I do not dirve 20 below the speed limit when not alone, and do not take hours to accelerate when the light turns to green. I guess it's hurt pride that someone has an almost stock car and gets twice the milage.

IIRC, poland has lower fuel prices than the majority of Europe at large. Is it still that way? The lower prices may contribute to an I don't care attitude toward economy.

Thus far, I quoted my MPG figure, and far from being ridiculed, people have been showing off their higher economy figures or complaining about their lower numbers. There also seems to be some intelligent discussion as to the whys and hows of better economy. So it makes me proud to have started a thread that seems to be quite popular.

I've tried broaching the subject on an Irish forum and i got 100% abuse and derision. It isn't a hypermiling forum or anything like that but it did have a motoring section.
I also brought it up in a very geeky, way over my head forum where they could calculate how much fuel it would take to send the ISS into orbit around the moon. But all i got was abuse and lectures about safety. No calculations or anything, just abuse.
Mind you, there are a few yaris drivers out there that are more open to it. That in itself tells me a lot.

ollie

They are lower than in Germany, but the income is even less, so proportionally fuel is more expensive. Recent prices:
95 octane gas: 1.17€/liter or $5.86/gallon
98 octane gas: 1.25€/liter or $6.25/gallon
diesel: 1.12€/liter or $5.60/gallon
I'd love to see what would be going on in the US with prices like those. People would be pushing their SUVs to work.

With gas prices like that, a 5 speed swap in my Jeep would suddenly become a lot more cost effective, especially with it needing premium!

Holy crap, that IS some pricey fuel. I suppose I missassumed a fact based on a motoring program called 5th gear, where they drove a new diesel hypermiling car from the UK to Poland just to fuel up. Apparently at the time it was the cheapest place to buy diesel in Europe.

Why is it so much more expensive in Europe compared to the US? Is the fuel heavily taxed?

Off the top of my head, taxes are 30%-70% of the price, depends on the country. Plus Europe doesn't have as much domestic oil as the US does. Poland imports almost all of its oil and gas by pipeline from Russia. And the more politicians talk about being less dependant, the more fuel they buy.