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jojogunn 10-26-2018 04:40 PM

rolling vs full stop
 
Years ago, I read that a vehicle with any momentum will use 90% less fuel to get going.
Are there any studies showing how much fuel is consumed from sitting at a light vs having some momentum when it changes?
One the intersections on my commute has a slight downhill grade, and I can row the shifter between neutral and drive to barely close the gap twixt me and the vehicle in front of me until our turn to go. How slow until this is not helping?

redpoint5 10-26-2018 05:07 PM

That's too much of a simplification.

P=mv - that is, energy equals mass times velocity. The more speed you can preserve, the more efficient it is. If you're going 1 MPH as you roll through the intersection, you haven't saved much energy at all.

Slowing well before reaching a stop to preserve momentum is one of the driving tips to maximize fuel economy.

oil pan 4 10-26-2018 05:14 PM

How much does a ticket run for "running a stop sign" cost?

slowmover 10-26-2018 09:12 PM

Bad habits cost far more than dollars.

1). Safety

2). Longevity

3). Economy

Keep the order.

.

oil pan 4 10-27-2018 08:29 AM

I have been to California multiple times, they like to roll through stop signs.
But their all right compared to MA drivers, to them a stop sign is a suggestion.

Piotrsko 10-27-2018 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 582424)
How much does a ticket run for "running a stop sign" cost?

Up to $100 depending on where and citing officer descriptions

redpoint5 10-27-2018 12:27 PM

It's like $300 here. I was cited about 15 years ago and back then it was something like $280. The judge knocks a bit off the ticket just for pleading not guilty, showing up to the court date, and then simply being truthful that you were guilty. I've had all of my many tickets (none in the last 10 years) reduced by doing this.

slowmover 10-28-2018 09:59 AM

Itís not the cost of the ticket, per se. Itís in being moved to a higher risk category by an insurer, thus higher long-term cost. A slew of tickets is an accurate predictor about emotional state. Which is the heart of ďabilityĒ.

Credit Score & Insurable Risk: Your Slave Collar

Every monkey can pilot a car. All over the planet. Only a matter of degree in different skill level, and thatís not fundamental.

Driving involves habitual choices. Skill isnít off-setting. The important decisions about driving are all made before the key is turned.

Have the habit of encroaching the stop line at a four-way? That one is behind the curb line doesnít change the fact one is now IN the intersection. Itís not a technicality.

Same for crossing a solid white stripe. Itís not there because the Highway Department had extra paint that day.

Failure to control oneís self.

Losing the use of the vehicle should be the determinant. There are so few examples of where that is a desirable outcome versus one worse that itís an easy way to make choices. Tell yourself youíll be walking the rest of your life.

One comes to a complete stop ten feet before the stop line. Not five. Why that is so is worth your while in investigating. Extrapolating. Same for the highway lanes merge zone.

The loss problem extends downwards to the life of vehicle components. ďIíll never be able to replace these tires. Tires are no longer availableĒ. Etc.

As always the irony is that trips arenít any longer. Discipline & Duration have a new relationship.

As economy is the premise hereabouts, itís vehicle use that matters most past vehicle spec. That use is premised on habit. Not skill. Not aero bandaids.

.

Frank Lee 10-28-2018 03:55 PM

I roll through when I've determined the risk of collision or prosecution are nil.
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, does it still make noise?

fusion210 10-28-2018 06:02 PM

I stop at all the stops. What savings in money or gas is pretty minute as in small.

euromodder 11-03-2018 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusion210 (Post 582540)
I stop at all the stops. What savings in money or gas is pretty minute as in small.

Actually, the savings would be pretty massive if the US ditched its silly 4-way stops !

teoman 11-04-2018 07:28 AM

In my opinion some speed is better tha none. As you have to slightly rev the engine when fully stopped and disengage the clutch, that causes more fuel burn and wear on the clutch. So even 1 mph has quite a bit of an advantage.

slowmover 11-05-2018 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 582949)
Actually, the savings would be pretty massive if the US ditched its silly 4-way stops !

Yes, roundabouts might work better. Except on major roads.

Failure to yield ROW across a four-way is a sure predictor for high fatality rate accidents. T-Bone Junction.

Bad habits don’t work out. Especially ugly when it’s easy to show selfishness is the justification.

In trucking I’ve found it a sure thing to go after drivers yammering on the CB about the “fast lane for trucks” on multi-lane expressways. The inner lane next to that from which they are barred is the reference.

Many or most drivers are paid per mile. So I bring up that as they tailgate cars or other trucks (under 100’), they’re risking the lives of those others for pennies. Wives with their children.

And that they’d best hope it’s never a relative of mine gets killed by their actions. For pennies. “Who do you run for, hand?”, is my next question. (Hand = hired hand; standard lingo. And anonymity is somewhat pre-requisite). “I’m old, I’m tired of working. Watching TV ain’t the thing. Family is what’s left. And very few of them exist. So are you certain, ARE YOU POSITIVE, that you and your family would live out that week?

The CB goes silent on that one.

The “game” with stop signs isn’t a single stop. It’s two. The first as far back as the law permits. The second at the line denoting the intersection (usually back from the curb). Call it a skill test. Discipline.

I run a manual transmission in a four ton pickup. The clutch is original at 220,000-miles. No signs of slippage. My city MPG is higher than the freeway average of most owners. No stunt driving, but driving for longest term reliability and longevity. Both trump fuel economy. FE is only a gauge to the larger picture.

The problem is internal to the driver: A snowflake and his feelings. A soyboy with the heart of a slave. Forever on his masters business.

One can glide smoothly around town. Or can’t. In which case, get to work. Quit treating the road as if it were the problem.

.

euromodder 11-07-2018 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 583101)
Yes, roundabouts might work better. Except on major roads.

Roundabouts stop working when 1 oncoming direction has heavy traffic - as that either blocks the other directions getting on, or is blocked by them.

Quote:

Failure to yield ROW across a four-way is a sure predictor for high fatality rate accidents. T-Bone Junction.
4 ways stops are illegal in the EU
We have junctions with either priority from the right, or with a sign-indicated priority for one direction.

And waaay lower fatality rates than the US ...

MeteorGray 11-13-2018 09:59 AM

I had a 25-year-old relative who was killed on a rural road one night and left behind a husband and two small children to live on without her. She would be in her 60s today and have seen her two boys grow up, marry, and give her grandchildren.

The guy who killed her ran a stop sign and pole-axed her car. He had just left a bar about a mile away. I'm sure he's long been let out of the penitentiary by now.

Since there had been serious, similar accidents at that location before, the county's solution was to put a 4-way-stop there.

Predictably, there were complaints about the four signs, but no more accidents. The reason: a 4-way-stop legally forces every driver to stop and look. Had there been a 4-way-stop at that intersection when my young relative drove that road that night, hopefully she would have made her required stop and would have seen that drunk barreling toward her at high speeds and watched as he harmlessly zoomed right through his stop sign.

So, I've come to realize that there is an argument in favor of such stops at some problematic locations.

redpoint5 11-13-2018 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeteorGray (Post 583695)
So, I've come to realize that there is an argument in favor of such stops at some problematic locations.

I don't intend to shift any of the blame onto the woman, but this is precisely why defensive driving means paying attention to other drivers and not assuming right of way laws will be obeyed. My motorcycle safety class taught me to always be aware of the vehicles around me, and to have plans in place for people who either don't see you, or fail to yield right of way. It's not foolproof, but it helps tremendously. The sad fact is there is no such thing as justice on earth. Justice would mean a restoration of the lost life, which is not possible.

I'm constantly annoyed by traffic control that is unnecessary. Left turns should always have the yield option when oncoming traffic has a green, but often they restrict left turns to only go on protected green. It's so inefficient.

Perhaps that alone will allow autonomous vehicles to improve the efficiency of the flow of traffic.

teoman 11-13-2018 11:23 AM

That is very sad to hear. I am sad for your loss.

Irresponsible people are a real pain, it should not be illegal to get rid of them in my opinion. Over here we have an abundance of them. Real retards, no regard for other people, they drive like zombies filling your safety gap. And the are supposedly muslims (the one thing that is never forgiven is you consume the rights of another, yet to steal a few seconds from you they will thrash their clutch engine and brakes), it would be safer to ride a motorbike among a heard of bison.

slowmover 11-14-2018 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 583253)
Roundabouts stop working when 1 oncoming direction has heavy traffic - as that either blocks the other directions getting on, or is blocked by them.


4 ways stops are illegal in the EU
We have junctions with either priority from the right, or with a sign-indicated priority for one direction.

And waaay lower fatality rates than the US ...

You need to look at fatality rates with reason. We will export all of our tens of millions of minorities to you, and then require all of you to drive as far as we do on average. (Nothing is available on foot or bicycle. Public transportation serves a fraction of the population).

Or we will simply statistically collectivize all Europa driving stats (including European Russia PLUS all NATO signatories) and then draw conclusions.

Areas in this country populated almost exclusively by NW Europeans also have dimishingly small fatality rates.

So we will also put your poorest examples of THAT class in the cars they cannot now afford. Worn-down vehicles, ready for the knackers yard. Youíll love that learning curve. Canít get to work or buy groceries without a car.

1). What is the constituent background?

2). What is the rate of ownership?

3). Why are they different?

Itís the same for gun crimes. Other categories.

.

euromodder 11-16-2018 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeteorGray (Post 583695)
The guy who killed her ran a stop sign and pole-axed her car.

the county's solution was to put a 4-way-stop there.

One can just as easily run any of those 4-way stops as the one that lead to the accident though.


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